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  #301  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 9:26 PM
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I am obviously in the minority - but I think the Saddledome needs a refresh more than a replacement.

It's already in almost an ideal location, and it's an "iconic" building.

I went to a game there last year (one and only time in the building) and I thought it was really cool. I sat up in those crazy high nose bleed seats on the sides where you can't see the scoreboard.

IMO, it's only real major detraction is it's inability to host some major concert tours. Otherwise - reduce the capacity by losing or re-configuring those ridiculous seats I sat in. Modernize it, and keep it.
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  #302  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 9:28 PM
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The concert problem is huge though. Calgary is consistently passed up by major tours due to the acoustics of the Saddledome. I doubt spending hundreds of millions only to still have the same problem is really a viable option for ownership.
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  #303  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 9:29 PM
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Originally Posted by osmo View Post
I don't think these new areas will last 100 years like they used to. It will get to a point where the land under the arena is worth more than the building and they will blow it up and rebuild it some place else. Only in older and large cities will they have to stay put as land availability is tight. Skydome, for example, will never go away, there is no other place to build 'Skydome 2' in Toronto so it will forever stay put there until they blow it up to use the land. TD Garden in Boston, MSG, all these will never go away as you won't find land to rebuild them in those cities.
Good point... a lot of the 90s and 00s downtown arenas and stadiums built throughout NA were on industrial brownfields/former railyards, and there simply aren't all that many of them left in downtown areas... at least not on sites close to prime areas.
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  #304  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 9:35 PM
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
Interesting aside: The ACC - located on premium land in downtown Toronto - cost $265m in 1999. (Inflation adjusted to 2016: $366m). How come the Saddledome replacement is so much more expensive? (quoted @ ~$550m)
I was thinking the same thing, the BellMTS place in Winnipeg cost 135m in 2005 (185m in today's dollars) with 40 million coming from public funds and they receive tax breaks. Sure its the smallest NHL arena but its nice, well maintained and still makes money with the Jets even with fewer seats to sell. I don't agree with the tax breaks but True North sports and the jets were and are still a major factor in the revitalization of downtown Winnipeg.

How much more of an arena can you get with 555m compared to ACC or any of the other arenas across the country? And Calgary isn't as hard pressed to revitalize their downtown,especially that their stadium is planned to be next to where the saddledome is already
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  #305  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
The concert problem is huge though. Calgary is consistently passed up by major tours due to the acoustics of the Saddledome. I doubt spending hundreds of millions only to still have the same problem is really a viable option for ownership.
The acoustics have nothing to do with it. It's the inability of the roof to handle the weight of the shows being put on. Apparently Garth Brooks is big enough to have his own setup to get around this problem and that's why he just did a shitload of concerts here. CSEC is losing out on a lot of money by not being able to host most major concerts now. The Saddledome might look cool but if it's not functional who cares how cool it looks.
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  #306  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 11:05 PM
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Re 90's arena's... Rogers Arena would be next to impossible to tear down due to the condo buildings surrounding it, so we are stuck with it for the next 100 years. Whats the next evolution in arenas anyways? More luxury boxes? For Rogers you could upgrade the interior eg marble tile. I still think the Pacific Coliseum is still good for NHL hockey. New stadiums are over rated in my opinion.
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  #307  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 11:36 PM
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Aquilini has been pretty good at renovating through the years so the stadium (at least the customer experience) is still quite strong. I doubt you'll see major renos beyond the bits and pieces any time soon.

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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
The acoustics have nothing to do with it. It's the inability of the roof to handle the weight of the shows being put on. Apparently Garth Brooks is big enough to have his own setup to get around this problem and that's why he just did a shitload of concerts here. CSEC is losing out on a lot of money by not being able to host most major concerts now. The Saddledome might look cool but if it's not functional who cares how cool it looks.
Huh, I always thought it was because of the shape of the roof, not the load limitations. Ya learn something new every day. Either way I doubt they would be able to structurally upgrade the roof enough to make it viable so the point stands.
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  #308  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Aquilini has been pretty good at renovating through the years so the stadium (at least the customer experience) is still quite strong. I doubt you'll see major renos beyond the bits and pieces any time soon.



Huh, I always thought it was because of the shape of the roof, not the load limitations. Ya learn something new every day. Either way I doubt they would be able to structurally upgrade the roof enough to make it viable so the point stands.
Concourses aren't wide enough either. By the time they replaced the roof, widened things, added more boxes, etc. it would probably be cheaper and faster to build new. Seattle's proposed reno to Key Arena is supposedly going to cost $660 million in real money so $600 million or so Canadian for a new arena doesn't sound that bad in comparison.
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  #309  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2017, 12:53 AM
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So Katz ponied up less than 5% of the $613.7 million - pretty sweet deal for him.
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  #310  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2017, 3:15 AM
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Calgary says it will pay for 1/3 of new arena
The Canadian Press TSN.ca September 15 2017

CALGARY — The Calgary Flames and their city are taking their negotiations public on a new NHL arena projected to cost $555 million.

The city proposed paying a one-third share of $185 million, with Calgary Sports and Entertainment paying another third and the remaining third paid for via a surcharge on tickets sold to events in the new building.

The Flames would get all revenues from the new arena, but the city wants CSEC to pay property tax on it.

"You'll notice that even in this model CSEC gets 100 per cent of the revenues and profits from the arena," Calgary Mayor Naheed Nenshi said Friday morning at City Hall.

"There is profit here. Our argument is the city needs to somehow share in the upside if we're going to share in the cost."

Flames president Ken King contends the city's proposal amounts to the team paying the entire cost, or more, because the team considers a ticket surcharge revenue that belongs to them and because they'd pay property tax.

"Their proposal has us not only paying for everything, but more when you consider incremental taxes," King said at a news conference at the 34-year-old Scotiabank Saddledome.

"They want a win-win. We think us paying 120 per cent of the project isn't exactly that.

"If we actually did this deal, it would be worse than what we have now. We've be better off to stay here."

He said the Flames would make financial details of their offer, and a blueprint for the building, public next week.

King announced Tuesday, on behalf of Flames owners Murray Edwards, Alvin Libin, Clayton Riddell, Allan Markin and Jeff McCaig, they were halting "spectacularly unproductive" talks with the city on a new arena.

Nenshi, who is running for a third term in the Oct. 16 civic election, had said a day earlier that the arena was part of a vision for a revitalized arts and entertainment district on the downtown's east side.

"Of course it's an election issue," King said.

"It became an election issue because it was indicated that on Monday morning we were an integral part of a vision that included an arena that had little to no chance of coming to fruition based on what they just showed you."

The Victoria Park proposal to build an arena just north of the Saddledome came after the $890-million CalgaryNext project pitched by the Flames two years ago.

That concept included a hockey arena, football stadium and fieldhouse on the west side of downtown.

CSEC also owns the Canadian Football League's Stampeders, the Western Hockey League's Hitmen and the National Lacrosse League's Roughnecks.

Flames owners offered $200 million of their money and proposed a $250-million loan be repaid through a ticket surcharge.

City council declared CalgaryNext would cost $1.8 billion when the cost of remediating creosote-soaked soil was included.

The city's most recent offer made public Friday said they would make a $130-million contribution that would not come from property tax, would donate the land worth $30 million and would pay $25 million for the demolition of the Saddledome.

Nenshi added the city would also pay indirect costs of over approximately $200 million to expand infrastructure and public transit to Victoria Park.

King countered those are costs the city would incur whether there is an arena there or not.

How much property tax the Flames would pay on a new building is up for negotiation.

"The Municipal Government Act actually has an exemption that the city can set its own rate for professional sports facilities," Nenshi explained.

"I would say in the range of $5 million a year would be reasonable, but that is something we were very much debating."

King reiterated the Flames are not moving to another city any time soon, while simultaneously pointing out they could.

"We want to ensure the public knows that the five men and their families who helped build this city, who employ tens of thousands of people, have provided hundreds of millions of dollars in philanthropy, and in spite of no good financial sense, have and will strive to keep professional and amateur sports as a beneficial and valuable part of our culture," he said.

"This is no money-grab. If it was, we'd be long gone. There's lots of places to make a lot of money in sports other than here."
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  #311  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2017, 3:41 PM
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The list of demands just keeps getting more frivolous and insulting. Flames were also asking for free transit on game nights and for the city to cover cost of security. WTF!?! At this point they sound like hostage takers giving the police negotiators a list of ridiculous demands. "I want a helicopter! And I want a white limousine with hookers and Dom Perignon inside to pick me up!"

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  #312  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2017, 3:57 PM
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"Their proposal has us not only paying for everything, but more when you consider incremental taxes

This is how things work for private businesses that develop real estate. You're not a public or not for profit institution. (and even those guys raise funds through donations than ask for hundreds of millions to build and operate buildings)

I really hope the municipal government does bend over to these guys.
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  #313  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2017, 6:22 PM
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^ "does" or "does not" bend over ?
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  #314  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2017, 6:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
Seattle's proposed reno to Key Arena is supposedly going to cost $660 million in real money so $600 million or so Canadian for a new arena doesn't sound that bad in comparison.
A lot of the cost of the Key Arena reno comes down to the fact that they have to maintain the current roof and support trusses (it's a local historic landmark)

Quote:
The board, consisting of architects, historians, a structural engineer and representatives from the fields of urban planning, real estate and finance, granted the designation for both the arena’s Paul Thiry-designed roof and its exterior walls and support trusses.
Interestingly, they could be eligible for up to $70MUSD in federal tax credits if the roof is also deemed a Federal historical landmark.
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  #315  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 1:54 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ Good God, 2 televised 90 minute long Habs post game shows... that is something else.
Habs intrasquad game being televised live on a sports network today. Tickets sold for it too. Should be close to a sellout at the Bell centre.
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  #316  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2017, 4:10 PM
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Habs intrasquad game being televised live on a sports network today. Tickets sold for it too. Should be close to a sellout at the Bell centre.
And they rebroadcast the intrasquad game in prime time last night!
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  #317  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2017, 5:05 PM
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^ Frigging mind blowing. Winnipeg has a reputation as a pretty solid hockey market, but I could never imagine those things happening here.
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  #318  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2017, 5:36 PM
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^ Frigging mind blowing. Winnipeg has a reputation as a pretty solid hockey market, but I could never imagine those things happening here.
It's like the Vatican of hockey. I'm not surprised.
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  #319  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2017, 5:46 PM
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When they fired Michel Therrien and hired Claude Julien last Valentine's Day (you can't make this up), all three mainstream TV networks, SRC, TVA and V (equivalent to CBC, CTV and Global) interrupted their regular programming to carry the news conference live.
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  #320  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2017, 10:33 PM
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The concourse upgrades at Bell MTS Place.

With the latest concourse upgrades, True North has invested $48 million into BellMTS Place since 2012.





















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