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  #1141  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 1:32 AM
shreddog shreddog is offline
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From 3 weeks ago ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by shreddog View Post
...I was out for beers tonight with an old friend who used to be heavily involved in the execs of the Liberal party ... who suggested a good conspiracy theory:

CC crafts her throne speech to lower the limit for official party status to 3, to kick off an all party committee to look into electoral reform and introduces changes to political donations mirroring the federal policy along with per vote subsidies ... in addition to a number of traditional liberal plans for economic growth and infrastructure (things that they campaigned on). Basically putting the Green’s big 3 into their Throne speech.

If the NDP/Greens reject the Throne speech, the LG may or may not accept Horgan depending on whether the agreement is an official coalition or just a convenient agreement to not force a confidence vote. The LG rejects the NDP offer and calls an election. CC and company present the Green/NDP coalition as being opportunistic and only in it for themselves.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by csbvan View Post
I really don't think that British Columbians would fall for that. The narrative post-election has been "who will the Greens, as kingmaker, side with". They have now picked a side. If the Liberals attempt to hold on to power despite that choice, whatever tactic they use, I think that most people would see it as playing politics and blame the new election on them.
I guess we will now find out.
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  #1142  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 1:56 AM
ClaytonA ClaytonA is offline
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Throne speech text: https://web.archive.org/web/20170623005223/http://engage.gov.bc.ca/thronespeech/transcript/

Optimal would be having votes and passing what all the parties can agree on before the confidence vote.

Given funds available/debts for another campaign and the reversibility principle (you can just turn around and vote them out) why not support the Liberals for at least this sitting. The budget doesn't have to pass until the fall sitting. All the positions in the link above can be costed, and have deadlines attached to build trust. If not, then vote them out.

Greens shouldn't have agreed to an accord with either party. Remained independent. Given the situation (not guaranteed power), all it did was reduce their available flexibility. Maybe they could have given support conditional on electoral reform commitment (w/out referendum), the donations, and carbon tax up $10/year starting 2018 for two years to $50 early, then cave on the rest for now (seems to cover their main policy planks). They didn't seem to get much of anything from the NDP.

I think it'll drag out over the summer with the NDP-Greens asked to form a government by the LG, but then not able to and an election in the fall.
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  #1143  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 2:30 AM
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WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Weaver and Horgan both confirmed their intention to vote down the government on June 29. This after the BC Liberals copied some of the NDP policies word for word from their platform in sad desperation.

Clark is looking sillier by the day.
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  #1144  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 4:04 AM
Pinion Pinion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaytonA View Post
why not support the Liberals for at least this sitting.
Hmm maybe because the Liberals have destroyed the provincial/Vancouver economy in order to line their own pockets?

Even if you don't believe that to be true, the Green/NDP and their supporters do.
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  #1145  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 4:44 AM
retro_orange retro_orange is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinion View Post
Hmm maybe because the Liberals have destroyed the provincial/Vancouver economy in order to line their own pockets?

Even if you don't believe that to be true, the Green/NDP and their supporters do.
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  #1146  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 5:06 AM
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Stingray2004 Stingray2004 is offline
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The interesting stuff, in the opening of today's BC Legislature, included the fact that the BC Libs selected Kelowna area MLA Steve Thompson as Speaker. Thompson has all but stated that the Speaker comes from the ranks of government... intimating that he will send his resignation letter in to the LG if/when the incumbent gov't falls.

Much more fascinating were the statements to the House by long-time BC Legislative Clerk Craig James. BTW, the BC Legislative Clerk is known as the "CEO" of the BC Legislature and is non-partisan.

BC Legislative Clerk Craig James told the entire House today:

Quote:
"The Speaker does not play a politically partisan role and must exert independence of the government".

“Much has been said about the speakership in the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia since May 9. A lot of what is being talked about is wrong. A lot of what has been examined by way of confidence motions, casting vote and the way this place functions is and has been wrong."
I highly suspect Craig is referring to media speculation on the Speaker's role and bending/breaking of convention if GreeNDP form gov't with a 43 GreeNDP v. 43 Lib vote on any bill with the new Speaker drawn from NDP ranks.

As Craig is the "CEO" of the House, he is also undoubtedly fully aware of the BC Constitution Act, which I referenced 2 days ago up-thread.

Unlike Speaker's in other Legislatures, BC's Constitution Act defines their role in statute law. Again, the key section therein:

Quote:
Decisions of Legislative Assembly by majority vote

43 All questions must be determined by a majority of votes of the members present, other than the Speaker.
IOW, on all final 3rd readings of bills, budgets, etc., unless a majority of members of the Legislature vote in favour of same, they are D-E-A-D on arrival. Basically a snapshot of the GreeNDP accord.

Next Thursday, when the incumbent BC Lib gov't likely falls on vote of confidence on the Throne Speech... we still don't know what the LG's advice by the 1st minister will be or what she will ultimately decide. The LG may well dissolve the legislature and we will be in a new election next week. Or maybe not.

If not, both Weaver/Horgan stated today that they will then bring back the Legislature after Labour Day weekend in September after the summer interlude.

The first key orders of business of the GreeNDP gov't involve confidence motions:

1. GreeNDP Throne Speech;

2. New Budget;

The budget must be passed prior to September 30 as interim supply bills then run out.

Suspect that the BC Libs will have a few House members away on the initial GreeNDP Throne Speech in order for it to "pass confidence".

The GreeNDP budget is where the BC Libs will obviously make numerous amendments, which will likely be rejected.

Likely final vote on GreeNDP budget as result?

43 - 43 tie vote. Again, under BC law, Speaker cannot cast deciding vote under these circumstances. Budget does not pass. Horgan then has no alternative but to visit the LG and advise her that GreeNDP budget has failed to gain the Confidence of the House and the LG's only alternative then is dissolution.

Bottom line? Either new election late next week or somewhere around September 15 - 25 time frame. I have no doubt about that anymore.
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  #1147  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 10:30 AM
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Wouldn't the LT Governor have to be very stupid to not call an election next week when she outright already knows the GreeNDP are prone to fall by the fall anyway?
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  #1148  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 7:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinion View Post
Hmm maybe because the Liberals have destroyed the provincial/Vancouver economy in order to line their own pockets?

Even if you don't believe that to be true, the Green/NDP and their supporters do.
What?

Vancouver has enjoyed the strongest economic growth its seen in literally decades. It leads the country in GDP growth and employment growth, and was predicted to continue to do so before the election results.

What more do you want?
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  #1149  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 8:09 PM
whatnext whatnext is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmt18325 View Post
No one is foot dragging. Normally, a May election would have no sitting until fall. Clark is the premier right now. Get over it.
Only because the BC Fiberals had a shockingly bad record of sittings of the house.

Oliver Cromwell's words to parliament have great resonance terms of the Christy & Co.:

You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!”
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  #1150  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 9:59 PM
dreambrother808 dreambrother808 is offline
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
What more do you want?
Is this a joke?

Apparently everything's just fine and we should all keep on ignoring the plight of the middle and poorer classes...
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  #1151  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 10:04 PM
Pinion Pinion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
What?

Vancouver has enjoyed the strongest economic growth its seen in literally decades. It leads the country in GDP growth and employment growth, and was predicted to continue to do so before the election results.

What more do you want?
Wages that keep pace with prices? The ability to buy property? I own a condo but could never move within the metro now.

The economy blows, it has been terrible for 15+ years and has been propped up by real estate money. New high paying jobs are on temporary contracts with no benefits. Stats can be manipulated to say anything.
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  #1152  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 11:04 PM
dreambrother808 dreambrother808 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinion View Post
Wages that keep pace with prices? The ability to buy property? I own a condo but could never move within the metro now.

The economy blows, it has been terrible for 15+ years and has been propped up by real estate money. New high paying jobs are on temporary contracts with no benefits. Stats can be manipulated to say anything.
And those profiting see no problems... Denial, delusion and ultimately failure.

Do we want to be the next San Francisco, where only the wealthy have the opportunity to thrive?
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  #1153  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2017, 4:28 AM
sunsetmountainland sunsetmountainland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
What?

Vancouver has enjoyed the strongest economic growth its seen in literally decades. It leads the country in GDP growth and employment growth, and was predicted to continue to do so before the election results.

What more do you want?
The reality is the majority of voters are very stupid! They cannot invest or make money they cry foul on politics for things that have nothing to do with politics such as housing and economics.

There single hope is to elect a failing economic government with a horrible agenda to break the bank so to speak! Thinking that somehow they will be able to afford to buy. However, the government overspends and becomes very indebted like in Ontario then everyone loses.

Whatnext Pinion,and Dreambrothers broker a losing ideology!
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  #1154  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2017, 4:52 AM
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If you aren't trolling, please realize that a reasonable argument about just why people are wrong will go down a lot better than poorly-spelt flamebait, talking points and insults.
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  #1155  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2017, 6:23 AM
Pinion Pinion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland View Post
The reality is the majority of voters are very stupid! They cannot invest or make money they cry foul on politics for things that have nothing to do with politics such as housing and economics.

There single hope is to elect a failing economic government with a horrible agenda to break the bank so to speak! Thinking that somehow they will be able to afford to buy. However, the government overspends and becomes very indebted like in Ontario then everyone loses.

Whatnext Pinion,and Dreambrothers broker a losing ideology!
I own a $450,000 condo with a $750 per month monthly mortgage payment and will retire early with millions in the bank thanks to this stupid real estate bubble. You don't even live in Vancouver, get that weak trolling shit outta here.

Also lol @ "housing and economics have nothing to do with politics."

Some of us care for the well being of other people because eventually it does catch up to you if lots of people are suffering. I know it's a difficult concept for conservatives to understand.
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  #1156  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2017, 4:29 AM
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Stingray2004 Stingray2004 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinion View Post
Also lol @ "housing and economics have nothing to do with politics."

Some of us care for the well being of other people because eventually it does catch up to you if lots of people are suffering.
Honestly, anyone who believes that a political party or gov't can make housing "affordable" again either believes in unicorns or pixie-dust.

The seed for today's high housing costs was planted back in 1973, when the then Barrett BC NDP gov't introduced the ALR. In that vein they went wayyyyyyy overboard IMHO including not only Class 1, 2 and 3 lands but also Class 4, 5, 6, and 7, which represents mostly horse hobby farms today in large swaths of Langley today, for example.

As a result of the implementation of the ALR in 1973, Metro Vancouver residential building lot prices literally doubled overnight along with non-ALR land parcels, which then had/now has major implications on housing prices. So much so that in the following year, 1974, Metro Vancouver achieved the title, for the first time ever, as the "most expensive housing market in Canada". So much for social engineering.

BTW, back in 1973:

BC Population: ~2.4 million
BC Housing Starts: ~37,000

In 1980/1981:

BC Population: ~2.8 million
BC Housings Starts: ~40,000

In 2016, BC had a population of ~4.65 million. Using the same BC population to annual housing start ratio from 1973 or 1980/1981, for example, BC should currently have between 67,000 - 72,000 annual housing starts to maintain some form of market equilibrium. Actual housing starts over past few years:

2012: 27,465
2013: 27,054
2014: 28,356
2015: 31,446
2016: 41,843

Couple the foregoing with shrinking household size - the upward pressure on housing prices is not exactly rocket science.
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  #1157  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2017, 4:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor View Post
Wouldn't the LT Governor have to be very stupid to not call an election next week when she outright already knows the GreeNDP are prone to fall by the fall anyway?
No. Because from some quarters of constitutional thought, the LG is required to be "blind" to some issues, the GreeNDP is a constitutionally viable alternative, the LG should call upon the GreeNDP to form gov't at this early stage after an election, and the democratic process should be allowed to take its course.

PS. An LG does not "call an election" - that would be unconstitutional. Only her 1st minister, in this case Preem CC, can provide her advice in that regard, which the LG can either accept or reject. Along with that advice are her constitutional advisors, which also includes federal GG David Johnston, as reported by 2 media outlets.
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  #1158  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2017, 4:37 AM
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Quote:
As a result of the implementation of the ALR in 1973, Metro Vancouver residential building lot prices literally doubled overnight along with non-ALR land parcels, which then had/now has major implications on housing prices. So much so that in the following year, 1974, Metro Vancouver achieved the title, for the first time ever, as the "most expensive housing market in Canada"
Land scarcity has nothing to do with housing costs (apparently). There must have been a wave of Chinese investors back in 1973.
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  #1159  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2017, 5:03 AM
Pinion Pinion is offline
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Originally Posted by Stingray2004 View Post
Honestly, anyone who believes that a political party or gov't can make housing "affordable" again either believes in unicorns or pixie-dust.
I didn't want them to make it affordable again, I wanted them to not let other countries to use us for money laundering for the last 15 years or so. If they did that we wouldn't have a problem in the first place. We'd have a normal supply and demand real estate economy like most cities on the continent.

You're right, the damage is done. Vancouver is only starting to feel the consequences, and that's why there's so much anger towards the Liberals. It's why almost all of Metro Vancouver went to the NDP. And of course that anger extends to the federal government as well - mostly the Harper Conservatives after their 9 year reign when everything really went bonkers, but the federal Liberals haven't done much so far either.
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  #1160  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2017, 5:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinion View Post
I didn't want them to make it affordable again, I wanted them to not let other countries to use us for money laundering for the last 15 years or so. If they did that we wouldn't have a problem in the first place. We'd have a normal supply and demand real estate economy like most cities on the continent.

You're right, the damage is done. Vancouver is only starting to feel the consequences, and that's why there's so much anger towards the Liberals. It's why almost all of Metro Vancouver went to the NDP. And of course that anger extends to the federal government as well - mostly the Harper Conservatives after their 9 year reign when everything really went bonkers, but the federal Liberals haven't done much so far either.
If you think any of that is true what are the chances of Vision Vancouver winning the next election?
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