BC Political Discussion - BC Election 2017 May 9th

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

If you are struggling...there isnt any point in trying to carve our a career or life in Vancouver.

I have been here since the mid-90s. I love living here. I'm not leaving.

I will not waste any more words on those who clearly only care about how things affect themselves.

[retro_orange]

Yep, I'm one of those much maligned (yet vastly debunked) Millennials, though I have had family in this city for over 100 years and my grandpa had a well known shoe store in the west side for 65 years.

I am sometimes tempted by places like Montreal or Halifax because of cheaper housing but it always comes down to I don't wanna leave everything behind, I have too much of a connection to this place. There's too many things I can relate to to just leave it all behind.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Yep, I'm one of those much maligned (yet vastly debunked) Millennials, though I have had family in this city for over 100 years and my grandpa had a well known shoe store in the west side for 65 years.

I am sometimes tempted by places like Montreal or Halifax because of cheaper housing but it always comes down to I don't wanna leave everything behind, I have too much of a connection to this place. There's too many things I can relate to to just leave it all behind.

You can buy entire 6-unit apartment buildings (eg 5000sq ft) in New Brunswick for the price (25K) of a timeshare 1/8th in BC. Sure they look like a Detroit wreck, but they exist. Try to find one of those wrecks in BC, they cost 300K and are 1500sq ft at most.

The thing is, people who live and work in BC, have no reason to leave BC as long as they own property and have family here. If one of those are not true, than mobility tends to be specific to BC. If both aren't true, then the only reason anyone stays in BC is because they like the climate.

Atlantic Canada Climate is awful most of the year.

Central Canada climate is awful 6-9 months of the year.

Western Canada the climate is awful for at most 2 months.

Like, to be specific. If my family wasn't spread all over BC and Alberta, I'd have little issue moving to Atlantic Canada, buying one of these wrecks and just renting out the space on the cheap to my fellow BC refugees.

If I could find a place cheap, in a city that has Fiber Optic Internet, and inexpensive groceries, I'd be all set.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Correction. They are putting other people's money where their mouth is.

LOL and the BC Libs don't? Look at the increase in net debt since they came to power! It's time for a change, no party should be in power for 16 years.

[Old and cynical]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

I have been here since the mid-90s. I love living here. I'm not leaving.

I will not waste any more words on those who clearly only care about how things affect themselves.

The internet has given us the ability to broadcast our concerns to all our fellow citizens.I am very discouraged with how we seem to be more concerned about the people who hold power,not just politicians.Why are we worried about jobs and corporate offices leaving?Those things will come and go and they have and they always will.All these powerful interests are screwing our beautiful province and all I hear are people wanting more and not wanting to pay taxes to pay for it.I have lived long enough to have seen very brave leaders take on these interests and WIN.I watched Tommy Douglas and admired his bravery and tenacity....Universal health care...Dave Barrett take on the insurance industry and get us public car insurance. Pierre Trudeau take on the catholic church and get public schools who could teach math and of all horrors science.Brave leaders who changed our lives for the better .The only things that conservatives are ever concerned with is the almighty dollar.That is why they come to power and then lose it for a generation,people have short memories and they know it.I mention all this because people wonder why we can't find a brave leader with vision.Well.... we have them the problem is we have a population who won't take interest and vote or even talk their concerns to politicians. To have bravery you need to be brave, all I ever read is complaining,and people that are fearful of everything.So vote for the next generation,not yourself.Be Brave.....

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Kisai

You can buy entire 6-unit apartment buildings (eg 5000sq ft) in New Brunswick for the price (25K) of a timeshare 1/8th in BC. Sure they look like a Detroit wreck, but they exist. Try to find one of those wrecks in BC, they cost 300K and are 1500sq ft at most.

...

Atlantic Canada Climate is awful most of the year.

I've lived in BC and the Maritimes for most of my life and this view is not very accurate.

It is subjective but the weather of the last 6-7 months in Vancouver was easily as challenging to endure as anything I'd seen in NS. There are a lot of places in NS where the climate is similar to Vancouver for most of the year. The winters are colder but much sunnier. I'd probably pick Vancouver overall for weather but the gap is not large. There are places in Atlantic Canada with much harsher climates, like Northern NB or Newfoundland, but that is just like Prince Rupert or Prince George in BC.

There are cheap depressed towns in rural parts of the Maritimes but there are also cities with good economies and a low cost of living, and nearby rural areas that are doing well. Moncton and Halifax are both growing cities and they are vastly more affordable than Vancouver. I know a lot of younger people in those places and here in Vancouver. By any objective measure the ones in the Maritimes seem to have a higher material standard of living. I could sell the condo I'm in here in Burnaby and buy a mansion in Moncton or a lovely historic townhouse in Halifax. Most significantly that greater affordability creates greater stability so people can save more money, have kids if they want, etc. (or just spend the money on a fancier house).

At the end of the day I agree most with the comment about personal attachments. I've lived in a bunch of places but the personal attachments are the biggest factor keeping me here even though I would be able to afford a much nicer place or have a higher income somewhere else. That is why I think the housing affordability issues are so unfair. It is not just a free market in which people can easily move and buy whatever housing is best and most affordable. Most people are stuck where they are, or at least face serious personal drawbacks beyond monetary costs when moving. This is why housing can get so expensive when the market is not properly managed.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

I have been here since the mid-90s. I love living here. I'm not leaving.

I will not waste any more words on those who clearly only care about how things affect themselves.

Do I think it's right that we have to migrate? Heck no...but we have to realize this may an inevitability in many global cities, especially when a place like Vancouver becomes such an attractive destination for the global elite.

Do we have a choice? It will depend on our ability to adapt to an increasingly expensive city...there are ways but no government will save our ass and make the region more affordable.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Do I think it's right that we have to migrate? Heck no...but we have to realize this may an inevitability in many global cities, especially when a place like Vancouver becomes such an attractive destination for the global elite.

Do we have a choice? It will depend on our ability to adapt to an increasingly expensive city...there are ways but no government will save our ass and make the region more affordable.

Thailand allows zero foreign ownership as far as I understand. Governments have power.

I am not advocating for such an extreme measure but we are already aware of the money laundering, tax evasion, and rampant speculation in our market that goes unchecked. Both the Greens or NDP have platforms to address these issues, whereas the Libs plan on maintaining the broken status quo.

http://www.icanparty.ca/en/bc-may-9th-2017/

[Migrant_Coconut]

For once, I agree. You can't fix anything by leaving.

[Bcasey25raptor]

well well well. Seems this discussion has gotten heated the last couple days.

I agree with those who say that moving isn't an option, how dare you tell people to just leave their home instead of fighting to protect it? Who are you to tell others to just leave?

a few things to consider, most poor people cannot move even if they want to since they are unable to afford to move in the first place, hell I couldn't afford to move even if I wanted to.

Should the bottom 30% of the population just wait until they inevitably fall into homelessness or should they fight for their own survival?

I understand that this website is very market oriented and very pro business and pro development, but you CAN balance both social services and free enterprise, you don't have to pick a side, you can support elements of both.

The reality is the poor in this province are getting fucked and a good half of the voter base doesn't give two shits about the poorer half. IS this really the society you want? What ever happened to "Canadians help other Canadians, it's what we do"?

Canadian values and culture have always valued helping eachother and taking care of eachother more than we have advocated cutthroat capitalism, it's why we have universal healthcare, decent infrastructure, a decent social safety net, and various other transfers to help lesson inequality.

Frankly I'm getting sick and tired of the americanization of this country and the fact a very large segment of the population seems content to watch and let it happen.

No I don't think the NDP is the answer, by all means the Liberals have been good for the economy and thats good and all, but the BC Liberals have left a MASSIVE social and moral deficit and this NEEDS to be fixed. If just a 4 year NDP term can help alleviate these problems before the BC Liberals inevitably come back, than so be it, it's worth the tradeoffs of marginally weaker economic growth.

Frankly if I were Trudeau and the Federal Liberals, I'd be suing Christy Clark and the BC Liberals for name fraud since the BC Liberals hurt the federal Liberal brand and do nothing but spit in the face of true Liberal values.

I'd do anything for BC To have a centrist pragmatic Liberal party like we have in Ottawa, one that will govern based on pragmatic common fucking sense instead of ideology.

The stances the BC Liberals have had with regards to child poverty, disability supports, and other disadvantaged groups is nothing short of criminal at this stage and if the BC Liberals DO win re-election, it sends one message to me and only one, that the BC voter base doesn't give a shit about anyone but themselves.

Thats my rant and thats me letting out my frustrations. I'm not opposed to Capitalism or free markets in fact I'd LOVE to see say ICBC privatized and a 2 tier healthcare system, but you know what? I CARE about my fellow citizens and I am fucking angry that so many are being left behind by a provincial government that doesn't give a shit about anyone but it's foreign donor base and the wealthiest BCers who benefit the most from their policies.

The NDP are FAR from what I'd prefer, $10 a day childcare? I'd think after Quebec's Failure the NDP would realize how bloody stupid that is. Opposition to kinder morgan? Are you freaking kidding me? AT least Notleys NDP hasn't forsaken the resource industries that literally FEED the provinces coffers.

But I'll take 4 years of BC NDP tomfoolery if only to see the end of corporate and union donors, a higher minimum wage, and targeted investments in housing and social services. To me, 4 years of NDP government are WORTH those 4 issues ALONE.

[dreambrother808]

And for once I pretty much agree with everything Bcasey has said. 👍🏻

[WarrenC12]

I'm in general agreement as well, although I'd like some detail on how the $10/day childcare in Quebec is a "failure". I was under the general impression that it was working well.

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I'm in general agreement as well, although I'd like some detail on how the $10/day childcare in Quebec is a "failure". I was under the general impression that it was working well.

This article sums it up well, generally the issue is it's much more costly than expected and the quality is poorer than through a more free market alternative.

I think a $10 a day childcare plan is a good idea only for low income families as a measure to get people into a higher income bracket where they no longer need assistance. I'd expand the Federal Canada child benefit to help cover the cost of childcare, giving families money and letting them decide how to use it is a far better idea than to give subsidized daycare to everyone including the rich and poor. Furthermore even if the NDP did win this election (though the odds are looking increasingly unlikely), it will take 10 years to fully implement, during that time families with children NOW will still suffer without access to childcare.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/09/29/child-care-subsidy_n_8178184.html

[Common Sense]

The choice on Election Day is between a known quality, the BC Liberals, and a unknown quality, the NDP. We know what the Liberals have done in the past 16 years but the NDP has not been in power for so many years; all we know is what they done the 1990's was an economic disaster.

During the 1990's the NDP made the province a have not province. Needing federal equalization payments. While they did balance the budget in their final year and had a surplus, the previous nine years they had a deficit.

According to polls, the young voters favoured the NDP. Understandable because they were not enough born yet or were still children. Older voters remember the NDP back then and are may be more reluctant to vote for them.

Now we come to the Liberals. Many voters are fed up with them because they are in power too long. They want change but there is no viable 3rd party except for the Greens. Will enough Green votes split up from the Liberals to let the NDP win? Or will the Green votes split the left wing vote to allow the NDP to win? Interesting questions only election day will answer.

[Common Sense]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I'm in general agreement as well, although I'd like some detail on how the $10/day childcare in Quebec is a "failure". I was under the general impression that it was working well.

Sure it is working well because of the equalization payments for the Federal government. Basically taxpayers from the rest of the country is funding Quebec's daycare program.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Common Sense

Sure it is working well because of the equalization payments for the Federal government. Basically taxpayers from the rest of the country is funding Quebec's daycare program.

Quebec gets those payments with or without the daycare program, so that's meaningless.

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by Common Sense

The choice on Election Day is between a known quality, the BC Liberals, and a unknown quality, the NDP. We know what the Liberals have done in the past 16 years but the NDP has not been in power for so many years; all we know is what they done the 1990's was an economic disaster.

During the 1990's the NDP made the province a have not province. Needing federal equalization payments. While they did balance the budget in their final year and had a surplus, the previous nine years they had a deficit.

According to polls, the young voters favoured the NDP. Understandable because they were not enough born yet or were still children. Older voters remember the NDP back then and are may be more reluctant to vote for them.

Now we come to the Liberals. Many voters are fed up with them because they are in power too long. They want change but there is no viable 3rd party except for the Greens. Will enough Green votes split up from the Liberals to let the NDP win? Or will the Green votes split the left wing vote to allow the NDP to win? Interesting questions only election day will answer.

True, we do know their quality, and it's crap.
I already explained my reasons for stating such, agree or disagree, a VERY large segment of the BC Population is FAR worse off today than they were back in 2001 and thats a fact.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by Common Sense

The choice on Election Day is between a known quality, the BC Liberals, and a unknown quality, the NDP. We know what the Liberals have done in the past 16 years but the NDP has not been in power for so many years; all we know is what they done the 1990's was an economic disaster.

During the 1990's the NDP made the province a have not province. Needing federal equalization payments. While they did balance the budget in their final year and had a surplus, the previous nine years they had a deficit.

According to polls, the young voters favoured the NDP. Understandable because they were not enough born yet or were still children. Older voters remember the NDP back then and are may be more reluctant to vote for them.

Now we come to the Liberals. Many voters are fed up with them because they are in power too long. They want change but there is no viable 3rd party except for the Greens. Will enough Green votes split up from the Liberals to let the NDP win? Or will the Green votes split the left wing vote to allow the NDP to win? Interesting questions only election day will answer.

Yeah the NDP of the late '90s still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. They were just awful.

Admittedly I haven't been following too closely although I should pay more attention as we're hoping to move back to BC ASAP, but it looks from here that the Greens will split up the left vote and the Liberals will take another term

[djmk]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

I give it a 33% chance of a minority (Liberal or NDP) or coalition (NDP + Green) government.

33%!

there are 85 ridings in BC. Assuming the Greens will get two, that means you think there is a 33% chance of either the NDP or Liberals will get exactly 42 seats.

Bold prediction!

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by djmk

33%!

there are 85 ridings in BC. Assuming the Greens will get two, that means you think there is a 33% chance of either the NDP or Liberals will get exactly 42 seats.

Bold prediction!

I think the greens may surprise people and win more than 2 seats.

I know oak bay is in the bag as is Saanich gulf islands, a few other seats in Victoria are also very much in play as is I think it was comox? Not sure, anyway I think the greens will actually win 4 seats.

Say this does happen.

Say the Liberals win 43 seats, the greens 4, and the NDP 40, in this case yes a minority is actually possible since 43 seats for the liberals would only be a drop of 6 seats from 2013 and 40 seats for the NDP would only be a rise of around 6 seats.

Keep in mind I highly doubt this will happen anyway, I think it will go something more like this.

Liberal 53 seats
NDP 30 seats
greens 4