Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Hot Rod]

There are two (or more) 'simple' solutions to expand the capacity of SkyTrain:

1) Longer platforms (and trains) on Expo Line

and/or

2) widen the track/shorten the width of Expo Line platforms; adding wider trains ONLY on Expo Line

I honestly think both should be considered. If you're gonna lengthen Expo Line platforms to 150m or 200m, you might as well make the platforms thinner. I don't think it would be as expensive as say a new E-W line which I think is wholly unnecessary (unless you are saying a Light Rail line down Hastings and/or King Edward/41st).

To me, there is no reason for Expo and M line cars to be the same, Expo Line is a spine which carries the bulk of SkyTrain pax between the two largest cities and their downtowns (which Surrey is surely becoming the #3 for the region, after Van and Broadway CBDs). This point likely might be interesting to consider if you consider the track guideway likely may need upgrading/retrofiting in 10-20 years anyway; the linch-pin is whether SkyBridge can handle heavier/wider cars. ...

Assuming the positive, we could have new 'Mark V' trains developed for Expo Line and if necessary some older Mark II trains could be repurposed, widened, and modernized creating full metro capacity. You could then vary the capacity throughout the day by lengthening trains. M Line could consume the existing stock of Mark I, newer Mark II and Mark III.

By doing both and building solid highrise TOD at most Expo Line stations - the region would have a viable transit spine justified by sufficient pax loads and viable, desirable destinations.

[Hot Rod]

One other thing I'd like to say/consider is Expo Line should have more exits in downtown. Rather than having one large exit that most stations now have, we should build connectors, passageways, and exits to expand the reach of key stations - Burrard, and Granville. Burrard should have connectivity to Robson/Alberni (say at Thurlow) [and I'd argue a Coal Harbour exit] with an underground passageway (filled with retail) while Granville station should OBVIOUSLY connect/transfer with Canada Line at Van City Center station, which itself should have a connection to Robson Square. This would open up Burrard to serve more than JUST the Financial District; it would also serve Robson/Alberni and Coal Harbour. I have no earthly idea why Van City Center station did not already connect with Granville station, let alone Robson Square.

These kind of A, B, C exits are common in dense cities I've been to (Chongqing, Osaka, Tokyo, Shanghai, NY, Chicago) especially in the cbd areas then add Chengdu to that list for having station at the central city square - I think this could be a boon to Expo Line getting riders who might not consider it viable considering they might need to walk longer than 5 min in the rain/traffic to get to an entrance.

Again, I'm not arguing for multiple exits at every station but I think Burrard, Granville, and perhaps add more Waterfront exits (say one in Gastown proper); would improve/add connectivity downtown.

While we're at it, I would change the name of Vancouver City Center station (sounds so childish/amateur) and call it Georgia/Canada Line or combine Burrard/Vcity center as just City Center station.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

There are two (or more) 'simple' solutions to expand the capacity of SkyTrain:

1) Longer platforms (and trains) on Expo Line

and/or

2) widen the track/shorten the width of Expo Line platforms; adding wider trains ONLY on Expo Line

Those are both likely multi-billion dollar projects and not worth considering IMO. Build more relief lines for that price.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[ilikeredheads]

Retrofitting the entire line to fit wider trains is completely not feasible, so I don't understand why there's so much discussion about it. You might as use the money to build a new line. The fact that you'd have shut down the whole line during the lengthy construction is reason enough that a project like this is very much a fantasy.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[casper]

Just build the Hastings line and declare success. There is a good number of buses that currently feed traffic into the existing skytrain line. adding another route into downtown will provide more capacity and simplify access. It will help reduce traffic on the Expo line.

[CanSpice]

Did I stumble into the Transit Fantasies thread? Longer stations? Wider trains? Adding tunnels and more exits to downtown stations?

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Did I stumble into the Transit Fantasies thread? Longer stations? Wider trains? Adding tunnels and more exits to downtown stations?

apparently Transit Fantasy Thread

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

apparently Transit Fantasy Thread

Ha. In my eyes this is still a transit fantasy thread because the 'conservative minded' provincial government is still dicking around on the funding to ultimately use it as a ploy for an election promise. What a joke.

[casper]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Ha. In my eyes this is still a transit fantasy thread because the 'conservative minded' provincial government is still dicking around on the funding to ultimately use it as a ploy for an election promise. What a joke.

Realistically, the feds would not have announced funding in the last budget unless the provincial government behind the scenes had indicated a willingness to match it.

That is especially the case given it is a liberal government at both levels and they are not going to get into a major battle with each other.

What we now need to wait for is the more politically advantageous point in time for the provincial government to make their announcement.

What is fantasy is modifying existing trains or stations.

[red-paladin]

I agree guys, please leave the fantasy stuff to the fantasy thread.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Metro-One]

Then such conversation is better fitted within the general transit thread or the station upgrade thread. When people see that this thread has been recently posted in they are hoping to see actual news about the funding, design, open houses, etc... for this project, not about expanding existing Expo Line stations.

Unless a document comes out saying that all the Broadway stations are proposed to be 100 meters this current conversation is completely irrelevant to the thread at hand.

Massive multi-billion dollar upgrades to the Expo / Millennium lines are fantasy at this point, so they belong there, especially when the conversations get this detailed and drawn out.

Same goes for the highway threads and any other dedicated project thread.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by casper

What we now need to wait for is the more politically advantageous point in time for the provincial government to make their announcement.

What is fantasy is modifying existing trains or stations.

Well we are about to enter into about 6 weeks of the most "politically advantageous" periods. I don't hold out hope of the Liberals announcing any funding commitments to the Broadway Line.

It's possible the NDP will, but I wouldn't bet on them winning anyway.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by casper

Realistically, the feds would not have announced funding in the last budget unless the provincial government behind the scenes had indicated a willingness to match it.

That is especially the case given it is a liberal government at both levels and they are not going to get into a major battle with each other.

What we now need to wait for is the more politically advantageous point in time for the provincial government to make their announcement.

What is fantasy is modifying existing trains or stations.

The Federal Liberals are well aware the BC "Liberals" aren't, that's why Christy's pet Massey Bridge project has received Zero infrastructure dollars.

[VarBreStr18]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Well we are about to enter into about 6 weeks of the most "politically advantageous" periods. I don't hold out hope of the Liberals announcing any funding commitments to the Broadway Line.

It's possible the NDP will, but I wouldn't bet on them winning anyway.

Admittedly they have been drilling at various locations along proposed route, in preparation for something to come? Also the north east corner of Cambie/Broadway has been vacant for some time,which would be ideal location for station.If you ride the Broadway line at all, the ridership exponentially increased with the Evergreen line added. Now with Fed money announced and election coming, it would be political suicide if they don't do something. There is some pressure.

[urbancanadian]

Originally Posted by nname

And... just noticed that the plan is to construction the stations by mining to reduce surface disruption. Hopefully they will realize that the construction method cost so much and start to explore cheaper alternatives (ie. cut-and-cover)

They're planning on mining some of the stations? Where do you see this? Have we had any of our stations constructed this way? Seems uncommon in Canada.

[Metro-One]

I think Ottawa is doing that for their downtown stations.

Don't they have to be deep for that to work well?

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]