Calgary International Airport II

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

Is there enough space at the gates to install seats if they indeed change their minds?

Yup, more than enough. Both the D and E concourses are wider than the existing A, B or C piers (and those three piers have seating, restaurants, shops and w/c's lining both sides!)

[yyc_engineer]

Anecdotally, and it's only based on two days worth of data, but sales in the walk-through International Duty-Free are doing better than expected. Duty Free sales from the KLM flight are up 600% over what was previously seen in A concourse. Today's NRT & PEK flights put together had higher sales than all of yesterday's International flights combined.

This is one design concept that definitely affects user behavior as people feel more compelled to purchase something in a walk-through Duty Free, almost as if it is part of the "airport experience" (like checking-in, going through security or boarding).

Now, I wonder how much water bottle sales have increased by..?

Too soon??

[casper]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

I am in no way defending the lack of water fountains, but I really don't understand the concern here. If you can afford a plane ticket, you can afford to purchase a bottle of water - simple as that.

I can think of many scenarios in life where water is not freely provided to you. For example, in your home, where you pay your municipality for water.

It's probably bad PR for the airport to not have installed fountains, as they would have increased the construction costs by 0.001% and been more environmentally friendly, but it's really not something people should be up in arms about. Water is free in the w/c (yes they have temp. controls) or otherwise you can buy a water bottle. End of story.

This call to gate stuff...now that is much more interesting. I give them 6 months until they abandon the concept completely. The best thing to do would be install some more seats near the gates and provide gate assignments to passengers on their boarding passes at check-in (ie. the old/normal process). Once people get to the airport they can decide whether they want to sit near their plane without food or booze or if they want to go shopping and come back to their pre-assigned gate at boarding time. This would be win-win for the passengers and the airport's so-called "revenue generation" model.

First off, I think it great that YYC has a new terminal and the photos looks great. Long-term I think it is a excellent addition to the airport. I say that as someone who transits through YYC more frequently that it being an O&D destination.

The thing on the water issue is not about the cost of bottled water. The issue is values. Have a look at the YVR website page on their program to reduce potable water use (what is in the photo). It is a story about people trying to do the right thing for the environment (even if they are about to get on an aircraft that is going to have a major carbon footprint):

http://www.yvr.ca/en/about-yvr/environment/reducing-potable-water-consumption

The message can be:

a) "You build a new terminal, you sometimes have things that get missed or don't pan out. We will get this solved in the coming months" or
b) "We want to encourage you the spend more money in our terminal so we dropped the water fill stations and fountains. We know plastic bottles are not a good thing, but how else are we suppose to make a buck on water."

Same thing for the call to gate it could be:

a) "We tried something new, it should make better use of available space, reducing the walking and give our travels more choice in places to eat and shop by clustering them all together." or
b) "We want you to spend more money so we are forcing you to wait in this area surrounded by places to shop and buy food."

It is all about values. For both of these issues (a) comes across as a socially responsibly member of the community and position (b) comes across as the equivalent of the owner of a Las Vegas casino. Both can build really nice things that are landmarks and people flock to but there is a difference.

YVR also has the setup where you have to walk through the duty free store to get to your gate on us departures.

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

I am in no way defending the lack of water fountains, but I really don't understand the concern here. If you can afford a plane ticket, you can afford to purchase a bottle of water - simple as that.

I can think of many scenarios in life where water is not freely provided to you. For example, in your home, where you pay your municipality for water.

It's probably bad PR for the airport to not have installed fountains, as they would have increased the construction costs by 0.001% and been more environmentally friendly, but it's really not something people should be up in arms about. Water is free in the w/c (yes they have temp. controls) or otherwise you can buy a water bottle. End of story.

Oh, come now. My city water costs me $0.0024 per litre, including the service charge. I'm well aware that nothing is for free, such as my $30 airport improvement fee, and other airport fees paid directly by airlines that are more hidden in my ticket.

So, yes, I expect that a free water fountain is included in that, just as I expect a free bathroom visit... call me crazy. Especially when I am forbidden to carry my own water through security.

I agree that the water fountain problem is getting too much attention (since they did indeed install a filling station in food courts), but it's a symbol of other design choices (CTG and the walk through the duty free) that gives you the feeling of, "this was designed not with my needs as a passenger as the prime motivation, but to extract more money out of me". Rubs some people the wrong way.

Edit: without doubt, the new terminal improves the passenger experience in many ways. I'm very happy with what I've seen of the overall effort and can't wait to use it!

[casper]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

I have already had, in the last two days, two ESL passengers stop and ask me where their gate was. One of them (on today's AC to FRA) had a hand written gate number on his printed boarding pass. I am guessing the agent at check-in wrote it in as they probably sensed he was not going to understand call-to-gate and likely would not be shopping for Prada handbags or slamming back Hoegaarden's at one of the bars. They did the right thing IMO, otherwise they would have to send a staff member hunting through the holdroom to find this man during final call.

My experience is anytime you go to a maple leaf lounge (or most other airlines lounges) with a boarding pass without a gate number, the agent take the boarding pass, looks it up in the computer and writes the number in. It is quite common, if you check in overseas that is an easy 12 hours before the flight and in many cases the gate has not been assigned yet.

Same thing checking in with a real agent. Including CtG airports, agent prints the boarding pass, looks at it says hold on a minute, types away and hand writes the gate number.

[FormerWingTipper]

Wow, what a busy two days so far! Some Comments Regarding the Last Five Pages...

1) It seems the biggest issue on this forum is call to gate. From an airline operations perspective, there have been much bigger issues.

2) Lots of issues 'reconfiguring' gates in the dual/tri sector gates. This is delaying deplaning and boarding and causing delays.

3) The B Concourse will still be used for domestic flights. You will see more DH4's on the B side since there are limited DH4 gates on the A/C Concourses and more DH4 enter the AC/WJ fleet.

4) Yes, no water fountains is beyond acceptable. And to be clear, the one water faucet in the food court was designed to wash the trays being used. So you have to fight to cleaners to have access to it. And that is if you can find it.

5) The lines from domestic to transborder (ITPC) are long in the morning when both AC/WJ have their early morning domestic arrivals feed their 0700-0900 transborder departures. They are getting bottlenecked at ITPC CATSA Passenger Screening.

6) Gates 70-73 are tri sector gates, and can handle domestic, transborder, and international inbound/outbounds. These gates will be heavily used to avoid towing.

7) Since AC uses Apron II for deicing, aircraft on Gates 74-75 and 78-95 will need to be gate sprayed since there is no taxiway from those gates to Apron II.

8) Correct, domestic departures at 70-73 stay in the C area. You cannot enter the D area. There are Customer Care Ambassadors stopping you if you try to go further.

9) Fun fact, there is no Gate 93, but there are 94, 95, 96, and 97.

10) Gate 76 does not have a gate GPU/PCA unit. Very strange that all others do. Airlines will have to use portable units when assigned to this gate.

[FormerWingTipper]

<deleted>

[Trans Canada]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

I am in no way defending the lack of water fountains, but I really don't understand the concern here. If you can afford a plane ticket, you can afford to purchase a bottle of water - simple as that.

(snip)

If you can afford a new terminal, you can afford a couple water fountains (which today include a tap for water bottles) - simple as that.

YYC will not be winning any awards (like YVR recently did) if they skimp out on stuff like this. As a frequent flyer, a place to fill my water bottle is in the top 3 amenities an airport can have. Not to mention the "123456 bottles of water saved" environmental spin... though maybe, in desperate times, YYC wants to support the local petrochemical industry. Yee-haw.

[casper]

Originally Posted by FormerWingTipper

Agents no longer write on the boarding pass unless government regulations require it. A new boarding pass will be printed if something changes.

That is probably the rule and training........

However, I have one sitting on my desk from two weeks ago. Printed on Lufthansa paper, for a Jazz flight with a gate number filled in by AC staff.

[FormerWingTipper]

Originally Posted by casper

That is probably the rule and training........

However, I have one sitting on my desk from two weeks ago. Printed on Lufthansa paper, for a Jazz flight with a gate number filled in by AC staff.

hehe, yes, you are right on the first part and right on the second part that the first part isn't always followed.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by FormerWingTipper

Wow, what a busy two days so far! Some Comments Regarding the Last Five Pages...

1) It seems the biggest issue on this forum is call to gate. From an airline operations perspective, there have been much bigger issues.

First of all, awesome post FormerWingTipper! A ton of great facts. Thank you! (You're clearly "in the know"!)

CTG is probably the biggest issue here because the resulting passenger confusion and angst has been so publicly visible. I'm sure there are bigger immediate priorities, and kudos to the YYC team for making it a relatively successful first few days.

The confusion around CTG and the lack of gate seating will need to be addressed soon, but isn't really mission critical in the early days of a new terminal's life.

Originally Posted by FormerWingTipper

5) The lines from domestic to transborder (ITPC) are long in the morning when both AC/WJ have their early morning domestic arrivals feed their 0700-0900 transborder departures. They are getting bottlenecked at ITPC CATSA Passenger Screening.

Bottlenecked at CATSA?!? Really interesting. Can you explain what exactly the bottleneck is? My understanding was that domestic>transborder and domestic>intl passengers would not need to be re-screened ... and either go straight to the departure concourse (if intl) or straight to US CBP clearance (if transborder). Is that not the case??

[outoftheice]

Originally Posted by casper

First off, I think it great that YYC has a new terminal and the photos looks great. Long-term I think it is a excellent addition to the airport. I say that as someone who transits through YYC more frequently that it being an O&D destination.

The thing on the water issue is not about the cost of bottled water. The issue is values. Have a look at the YVR website page on their program to reduce potable water use (what is in the photo). It is a story about people trying to do the right thing for the environment (even if they are about to get on an aircraft that is going to have a major carbon footprint).

In terms of the water issue I think this sums up the issue perfectly. Airports are the gateway to a city and in terms of the new international terminal, a gateway to the country. Airport authorities are expected to manage these gateways on behalf of all of us since (at least for now) the land they sit on is owned by the people of Canada via the federal government.

Because of this, I think the expectations of most people are that airports are supposed to represent and showcase to travelers the values that Canadians hold dear. Welcoming others and taking steps to accommodate their needs are two of those values. Not providing drinking fountains to force people to spend money runs contrary to those values. I will most likely never use a drinking fountain at the airport but it upsets me it is not available to someone who would because I have always valued the concept of western hospitality and I expect our airport to showcase that in a way beyond volunteer White Hatters.

PS - Remember when the Calgary Airport Authority used to advertise it's 'street pricing' policy where vendors agreed not to charge more than what they would for the same product in downtown Calgary? Can we please have that airport authority back?

[outoftheice]

A question for those in the know: one of the reader comments posted to the Calgary Herald article made me raise an eyebrow. The comment was complaining that there were no escalators installed down to Canada customs and that passengers had to choose between stairs or waiting for an elevator.

I haven't seen any other comments about this. Is this actually true? If so it seems like a huge oversight since the majority of travelers have carry on luggage and based on my experiences very few of those travelers can navigate stairs with their carry ons. If there really aren't any escalators watch the entrance to customs go into failure the day two 777s arrive at the same time.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by CrossedTheTracks

Huh? I already answered your previous query about about where the water fountains exist in the old terminal. There wasn't any (water) thing to complain about. Easily recalled from memory, despite my last flight being 10 months ago, and despite your otherwise voluminous (and much appreciated!) knowledge of YYC.

As for people nit-picking, well big surprise, this is human behaviour.

Apologies for the disjointed responses.

Sometimes I start to write a response on SSP and the phone rings or the boss comes into my office and I get distracted from my online life by real life.

Originally Posted by CrossedTheTracks

If I remember correctly... outside the washrooms close to the end of pier C; right outside washrooms in mid-pier B (transborder side, close to Starbucks); roughly mid-pier B (dom/intl side) in one of the gate areas. Also right outside washrooms in A/B swing gates.

Looking close to the washrooms is an obvious spot, because they're usually there (if anywhere), usually because there's already potable plumbing in such spots.

Washrooms close to the end of pier C had a disabled washroom recently installed and the water fountains were removed. The remaining washrooms on C are all due for renovation and enlargement. Once the renos are completed the water fountains will be removed. Also that particular water fountain never had enough pressure to be able to fill a water bottle to begin with, my kid tried several times to drink from this water fountain to no avail.

Concourse B washrooms are also due for replacement. Again the water fountain shared a line with the Starbucks, Tims, BK Bar and consequently had little water pressure. As of August 2, 2016 the water fountains were removed from active service.

Water fountain and washrooms on the A/B swing gates were removed in order to build the YYC Link A terminus station.

For those who have a problem with using the sink versus water fountain, remember that the cleaners only have one cloth to wipe down the sinks, counter tops, walls and water fountains. The only way to limit cross contamination is to use plastic water bottles. The same situation occurs in hotels, which is why Marriott and Starwood have bottled water in hotel rooms, free for Elite traveling guests.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by casper

The thing on the water issue is not about the cost of bottled water. The issue is values. Have a look at the YVR website page on their program to reduce potable water use (what is in the photo). It is a story about people trying to do the right thing for the environment (even if they are about to get on an aircraft that is going to have a major carbon footprint):

http://www.yvr.ca/en/about-yvr/environment/reducing-potable-water-consumption

In terms of potable water, the new international terminal is ahead of YVR because the terminal design and implementation resulted in significant decrease in potable water use. Rainwater from the roof is cleaned, flitered, and stored for use in the toilets and urinals. All faucets have the latest in potable water saving strategies. YVR is only beginning the process of investigating potable water strategies. It will be interesting to see if YVR Potable Water Reduction Strategy results in removal of the refill stations.

With regard to plastic water bottles. The big regulatory enhancement is the joint IATA and ICAO program to introduce recycling program for international flights. Canada, like most countries, requires that all refuse coming off international flights be incinerated. The incineration requirement was a major obstacle to early recycling efforts. the ICAO and IATA efforts have received a lot attention in the last 2-5 years.

The preferred plan for airports and airlines is to require the use of plastic containers that can be recycled anywhere the aircraft is destined and to remove potable water refill stations to meet water use reduction targets. The plastic water bottles do not count towards the airport use of potable water.

[LO 044]

I have to say it has been interesting reading about YYC's experience with the new terminal. I believe the water fountain thing is an epic fail and the jokes would come a flyin on this thread if that scenario took place up here in YEG. Good luck with that BTW.

I find it ridiculous that WiFi can be free at an airport but not water. I have always found the cost of water to be the most mind boggling aspect in our lives. I have no problem paying for the bottle itself but when you know it costs 5-10 cents for the slurpee cup of a 79 cent slurpee, you know a plastic bottle isn't worth 3 dollars. And the water is not purified or taken from some Rocky Mountain stream so make the water bottle cost 50 cents and you'll still make a profit. Airports always claim that upgrades are used to improve the customer experience. Well not so much with the water fountain issue or call to gate.

I am not a versed traveller as most of you and i have only had one experience with CTG which was at LHR. It was before the new terminal that AC uses. I don't really care to sit in a North American food court with no view to the outside before making my way to a 30 seat departure area used to board a 767. Everyone was basically lined up in a hallway and the hold room looked like it used to be a maintenance room at some point. I will always avoid LHR compared to any other airport in Europe. I'm not saying YYC's central area is exactly the same but i just don't like this type of "customer experience".

Congrats on the new digs though. I hope i rarely need to use it.

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by Cage

... end of pier C ... the water fountains were removed. The remaining washrooms on C are all due for renovation and ... the water fountains will be removed.

Concourse B ... the water fountains were removed from active service.

I sit corrected. Disappointing...

[Coldrsx]

Looking forward to using your new terminal tomorrow en route to NRT. I will use my SLR where possible.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Cage

In terms of potable water, the new international terminal is ahead of YVR because the terminal design and implementation resulted in significant decrease in potable water use. Rainwater from the roof is cleaned, flitered, and stored for use in the toilets and urinals. All faucets have the latest in potable water saving strategies. YVR is only beginning the process of investigating potable water strategies. It will be interesting to see if YVR Potable Water Reduction Strategy results in removal of the refill stations.

That is a great story about environmentally responsible design. It is probably cheaper just to do it the old less responsible way, the fact that YYC went the extra mile is great and should be commended.

The problem with the airport having an anti-water fill station position is it sends the wrong message relative to where it probably wants to be in the community.

All great points about how the ones in the other concourse do not work so they are being removed instead of being fixed. This is one of these cases where it can be the correct engineering decision, however no CEO is going to want to get up there and publicly defend the position.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by LO 044

I have to say it has been interesting reading about YYC's experience with the new terminal. I believe the water fountain thing is an epic fail and the jokes would come a flyin on this thread if that scenario took place up here in YEG. Good luck with that BTW.

I'd bet a bunch would blame it on Air Canada.

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Looking forward to using your new terminal tomorrow en route to NRT. I will use my SLR where possible.

Will they let you back into YEG after connecting through here?

Enjoy the flight to NRT, too bad it's switched back to the 763 for the winter instead of the 787. Although you may get better legroom I think.