Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by dpogue

You could transfer at Production Way (on the same platform), or at Lougheed (need to go downstairs and up to the centre platform).

You know, I think this shows a weakness in the Millennium Line's design (only one pocket track) that the switch is all the way at Underhill Ave. Where as the design apparently intended for the switch right before Loughheed and after Lougheed station to be used, which is also a weakness since it's doesn't have a pocket track either. This results in the train having to sit on the track before switching direction. So it actually has to go nearly all the way to Lake City Way.

Perhaps if capacity ever warrants it they may just force people to transfer at Lougheed during peak. But it would need to double in frequency first.

I suppose it depends how reliable the switches are. Consider that most of the failures on the Skytrain tend to be with switches (and that the Skytrain likely has more switches than a typical subway or light rail system in the first place) is probably why there are not very many pocket track switches on the Millennium line. Or it was just a cost-saving measure that was poorly thought out.

Most of the time when there's some switch failure, it's at Edmonds (at the OMC) or at Columbia (at the Skybridge.) But those can be routed around (at the expense of Surrey.) If there's a failure at Lougheed, it looks like they can force people to transfer at Lougheed by disabing one of the platforms, but if the failure is between Lake city and Production way, the trains can't get past the switch and would need to wrong-rail back, which would 🞵🞵🞵🞵 since the next switch is before Sperling/Burnaby Lake. But that is where the Pocket Track is.

This has me wondering if it would have been more practical to switch the eastbound and westbound platforms on the evergreen line so that the trains don't have to wrong-rail to get onto the Millennium line.

[SpongeG]

so it seems the changes announced for oct 22 are confusing people on facebook that i know but their not personal friends, I helped correct them as best as i understand the changes but if they are any indication of the general public holy 🞵🞵🞵🞵 lol

One was confused and angry that the millenium line was no longer going to serve waterfront thought he could no longer leave downtown by skytrain.

Another person who lives in new west thought she was no longer going to be able to get to downtown vancouver using skytrain.

Another who lives in new west also said she hates the expo line its always too crowded and only liked to use the m-line which will no longer get her downtown and the trains are going to be even more crowded now and won't bother to go downtown at all anymore

Hopefully translink puts something out thats completely dumbed down and basic to guide people

[GlassCity]

On the bus the other day I heard a girl complain she'd have to transfer to get from Braid to Production Way-University too. I don't know, it's obviously tough for us to understand because we follow this stuff very carefully and with interest, but I just don't understand how much more they could dumb it down. Another thing I've been learning lately: people have a much harder time reading maps than you'd think. I'm sure it'll be fine eventually though, just like it was with Compass.

[Sheba]

I made sure to send the TransLink page to my mother (who gets confused and then frustrated fairly easily nowadays). She was confused when I first described it but after looking at the current / Oct 22 maps I think she gets it. Anyway she has some time to get used to the change *and* doesn't ride Skytrain very often anymore.

It's more of the same. The general public gets confused and cranky about change - after the initial growing pains they'll calm down. Hopefully it doesn't take very long this time.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

so it seems the changes announced for oct 22 are confusing people on facebook that i know but their not personal friends, I helped correct them as best as i understand the changes but if they are any indication of the general public holy 🞵🞵🞵🞵 lol

One was confused and angry that the millenium line was no longer going to serve waterfront thought he could no longer leave downtown by skytrain.

Another person who lives in new west thought she was no longer going to be able to get to downtown vancouver using skytrain.

Another who lives in new west also said she hates the expo line its always too crowded and only liked to use the m-line which will no longer get her downtown and the trains are going to be even more crowded now and won't bother to go downtown at all anymore

Hopefully translink puts something out thats completely dumbed down and basic to guide people

On the new schedule, Expo trains (from Production) are effectively renamed old Millennium trains.
They won't be as full arriving at New West because they have fewer stations to pick up passengers (as compared to old schedule Millennium trains gathering people from Broadway/Commercial to Lougheed before heading to New West).

This suggests 1/3 of the Expo trains to (and from) downtown on the new schedule won't be as full because those trains and passengers aren't going to Surrey (just like the old schedule M-line trains).

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

so it seems the changes announced for oct 22 are confusing people on facebook that i know but their not personal friends, I helped correct them as best as i understand the changes but if they are any indication of the general public holy 🞵🞵🞵🞵 lol

One was confused and angry that the millenium line was no longer going to serve waterfront thought he could no longer leave downtown by skytrain.

Another person who lives in new west thought she was no longer going to be able to get to downtown vancouver using skytrain.

Another who lives in new west also said she hates the expo line its always too crowded and only liked to use the m-line which will no longer get her downtown and the trains are going to be even more crowded now and won't bother to go downtown at all anymore

Hopefully translink puts something out thats completely dumbed down and basic to guide people

These are probably the same people CTV or Global will search for when they do a story on Translink.

[SpongeG]

haha

once i explained it they seemed to get it but a little scepitical and would have to test it out for themselves

anyway that diagram up there made me understand it better, so the only people inconvenienced, meaning they have to walk down from the main platform to the new 3rd platform at lougheed if say they got on at sapperton and wanted to go to coquitlam centre, otherwise people coming from coq centre or vcc clark won't have to make a transfer at all

[Alex Mackinnon]

I think it would have been much better if they had have designed the new platform to be a Spanish solution style platform. It would allow people going from New West to Coquitlam to simply exit through the correct side of the train to get to their transfer.

I'd imagine that this wasn't done due to cost and the expected passenger flows probably being quite small.

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

I think it would have been much better if they had have designed the new platform to be a Spanish solution style platform. It would allow people going from New West to Coquitlam to simply exit through the correct side of the train to get to their transfer.

I'd imagine that this wasn't done due to cost and the expected passenger flows probably being quite small.

It's worth remembering that the side platform at Lougheed was designed and roughed in when the Millennium Line was originally built.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Express691

Heard 169 frequency will halve and all trips will go via riverview

Yep. I'm going to have to see if the frequency works out for me. The travel time will be about the same, given I'll have to switch platforms at Lougheed. Just have to wait and see!

[nname]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Yep. I'm going to have to see if the frequency works out for me. The travel time will be about the same, given I'll have to switch platforms at Lougheed. Just have to wait and see!

The new 169:

Departs Braid: 5:30am, then every :28, :58 till 10:58pm, 11:58pm, 12:58am, 2:00am
Departs Coquitlam: 5:00am, 5:30am, 5:54am, 6:24am, 6:54am, 7:24am, 7:55am, then every :26, :56 till 2:26pm, 2:57pm, 3:28pm, 3:58pm, then every :00, :30 till 11:30pm, 12:30am, 1:30am

Travel time 21-24min daytime, 16-18min late night

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by dpogue

It's worth remembering that the side platform at Lougheed was designed and roughed in when the Millennium Line was originally built.

... and that was a change in design from the original concept, which had a single centre platform oriented north-south with the wye opening to the south instead of the west.

See page 129 of the report linked below (section 3.3 SkyTrain to SkyTrain Connectivity) for originally proposed Lougheed Station train movements with a N-S station:

http://www.llbc.leg.bc.ca/public/Pubdocs/bcdocs/329621/SkyTrainReview.pdf

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Yep. I'm going to have to see if the frequency works out for me. The travel time will be about the same, given I'll have to switch platforms at Lougheed. Just have to wait and see!

Why switch at Lougheed?

coming from Braid will be on Expo train.
Stay on train to Production and walk across platform for Millennium train to Douglas.

[Express691]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Why switch at Lougheed?

coming from Braid will be on Expo train.
Stay on train to Production and walk across platform for Millennium train to Douglas.

He is trying to see if he can save a zone by using line 169.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

I think it would have been much better if they had have designed the new platform to be a Spanish solution style platform. It would allow people going from New West to Coquitlam to simply exit through the correct side of the train to get to their transfer.

I'd imagine that this wasn't done due to cost and the expected passenger flows probably being quite small.

There will also be a few more challenges with this as the original track configuration didn't take this solution into account. There might have been more property expropriation required to enable this too which would also add cost.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by deasine

There will also be a few more challenges with this as the original track configuration didn't take this solution into account. There might have been more property expropriation required to enable this too which would also add cost.

I'd consider it more to be an issue with the design process rather than the Evergreen designer. A split process doesn't generally give the best end result.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Why switch at Lougheed?

coming from Braid will be on Expo train.
Stay on train to Production and walk across platform for Millennium train to Douglas.

So I could spend four more minutes on the SkyTrain and wait for a train at Production or I could walk between platforms at Lougheed, which probably takes fewer than four minutes?

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Express691

He is trying to see if he can save a zone by using line 169.

Compass doesn't know you've walked across the platform, since you never tapped out/in at Production.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

So I could spend four more minutes on the SkyTrain and wait for a train at Production or I could walk between platforms at Lougheed, which probably takes fewer than four minutes?

or the Douglas train is just pulling into Production as you're walking across the platform.

You might even get a seat before the Lougheed crowds fill the train.

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Compass doesn't know you've walked across the platform, since you never tapped out/in at Production.

it becomes a 2 zone fare when you tap out in coquitlam