Questions about Ottawa

[canabiz]

You may find the below articles useful. They are a few years old so the quoted prices may no longer be applicable but the Ottawa Real Estate Board (OREB) code and other details will hopefully aid you in your search for housing here.

Welcome to Ottawa!

http://ottawamagazine.com/homes/neig...oods-families/

http://ottawamagazine.com/homes/neig...e-home-buyers/

[SF Thomas]

I'm not sure about current availability but the neighbourhoods around Churchill and Broadview Ave might be worth checking out. They are a bit more urban and reasonably close to most amenities. Also fairly family friendly.

They are pretty close to Westboro which is kind of like Ottawa's second downtown if you like an area that has a lot of more trendy/unique shops and restaurants you can walk or bike to. It also has a more of an active community group and volunteer organizations. From what I've heard the prices around Churchill and Broadview aren't quite as high as being directly in other central neighbourhoods like the Glebe or Centreville. Might be hard to find something to rent though because the area is popular and people seem more likely to own homes there than rent them out.

[J_Murphy]

Thanks for your input everyone...much appreciated.

[J_Murphy]

So just over 2 years has passed since I first posted this. I still haven't moved, but starting to reconsider again. I have one more question. I've read that finding a job could be more difficult in Ottawa if you aren't bilingual. Is there much truth to this? I have no interest in learning french.

Thanks,

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by J_Murphy

So just over 2 years has passed since I first posted this. I still haven't moved, but starting to reconsider again. I have one more question. I've read that finding a job could be more difficult in Ottawa if you aren't bilingual. Is there much truth to this? I have no interest in learning french.

Thanks,

Depends on what kind of job you're looking for. If you're looking for something public service/government being bilingual helps a ton. If your potential job is something private sector it's hit or miss. I've had a number of jobs in Ottawa where bilingual proficiency wasn't required whatsoever.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

I think you can look at it this way:

Federal Engineering jobs at the entry level and mid-level (say, ENG-03 and below) will generally pay salaries on-par or a bit higher than the private industry equivalents.

Upper mid to high level (say, ENG-04) will generally pay higher.

High level (say, ENG-05 or higher, or a very senior person 'capped' at ENG-04), will generally pay lower than the private industry equivalent.

Note that I'm referring to base salary only. Once you factor in paid overtime (very rare in private), pension, and other benefits, all bets are off and the comparison become very difficult.

When I was looking for entry-level work in tech in Ottawa after getting my degree in computer science back in 2014, the private sector offered much higher salaries than the public sector; by an average of about 15% or so. I got a job in government anyway because the job security and pension entitlements were attractive enough, and, because most of my 22-year old colleagues didn't think that way and only cared about the salary offers, I had a lot less competition for the job (this was just before the current tech boom started, so finding tech jobs was still a bit of a challenge unlike today).

Earlier this year, though, after hitting nearly 4 years in the government, I moved to the private sector. The public sector was driving me insane with all its rules and restrictions and I got headhunted at a private firm that was willing to give me an intermediate position and a pretty hefty salary that would have taken me at least 10 years to get if I stayed in the public sector. Now I'm in private and I'm much happier.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

If possible, you should determine your housing location based on where you end up working. The Rideau River can be a bit of a barrier and commuting can be a pain if you have to cross one of the limited number of bridges.

I second this. Ottawa has a lot of bottlenecks in its transportation network (the rivers being the big one, but some others too) and if you have a commute that goes through one or more of these bottlenecks you can be in for a bad time. Generally though, commutes tend to be fairly easy here (at least compared to Toronto or Montreal) if you can avoid these bottlenecks.

[acottawa]

I think of it would depend on what is motivating your decision. If you really want to live in Ottawa I'm sure you can find some uni-lingual options but given that much of the civil engineering work is working for the government or with the government then uni-lingualism is probably career limiting. If you don't have any particular attachment to Ottawa and you're just looking to move to another city then I wonder if a city with so many bilingual jobs is the best idea.

[kevinbottawa]

In the public service French is essential but not necessarily on Parliament Hill. When I first moved to Ottawa my wife found a job on Parliament Hill after only a few months of being here and she doesn't speak French (and she was pregnant at the time). She worked with a BC MP so French was a non-factor.

[Acajack]

French is not essential in the public service in Ottawa, especially for more technical jobs. Once you get to manage staff though you will start to need French. If they like you and think you have potential they'll send you off on paid language training for a while under you're up to speed. Seriously.

As for the private sector in Ottawa it can be remarkably English only for a city of this nature. Yes, most private sector firms have bilingual capacity (read = capacity in French) but very very few of them would have as an objective to have all their staff bilingual.

So let's say you have a firm that offers IT training courses. On staff you'd have a bunch of trainers that speak only English, and a bunch of bilingual trainers. Maybe also trainers who are really good in French but are shaky in English.

[1overcosc]

I've heard that way back in the day when they were first implementing OB in the public service, the original recommendation from the commission looking at the issue was to have each department divided into separate Anglophone and Francophone divisions, with work up to management levels being done entirely in that language within each division, and only at the very top would the two come together. So the CRA for example, would be effectively divided into an anglophone CRA and a francophone CRA with all the CRA's activities (enforcement, processing, etc.) all being done separately, so the francophone CRA would process the taxes & do audits/enforcement of those who submitted their forms in French, the anglophone CRA would do likewise with who submitted their forms in English.

This would have probably been less efficient but it would have made for a better working environment. Right now federal civil service OB is arguably the worst of both worlds; you inhibit the career progress of anglophones and discourage them from seeking work in the PS, and at the same time you put francophone civil servants in a position where they often have to speak English anyway so their unilingual anglophone coworkers can understand them.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I've heard that way back in the day when they were first implementing OB in the public service, the original recommendation from the commission looking at the issue was to have each department divided into separate Anglophone and Francophone divisions, with work up to management levels being done entirely in that language within each division, and only at the very top would the two come together. So the CRA for example, would be effectively divided into an anglophone CRA and a francophone CRA with all the CRA's activities (enforcement, processing, etc.) all being done separately, so the francophone CRA would process the taxes & do audits/enforcement of those who submitted their forms in French, the anglophone CRA would do likewise with who submitted their forms in English.

This would have probably been less efficient but it would have made for a better working environment. Right now federal civil service OB is arguably the worst of both worlds; you inhibit the career progress of anglophones and discourage them from seeking work in the PS, and at the same time you put francophone civil servants in a position where they often have to speak English anyway so their unilingual anglophone coworkers can understand them.

Yes. I would recommend any unilingual anglophone to avoid the PS unless they are content with a dead end job. This includes IT because if you progress in your career, language will eventually become an issue. At that point, language becomes more important than maintaining or upgrading your technical skills.

This directly impacts the private sector, since that is where most of the unilingual anglophone majority in Ottawa ends up.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I've heard that way back in the day when they were first implementing OB in the public service, the original recommendation from the commission looking at the issue was to have each department divided into separate Anglophone and Francophone divisions, with work up to management levels being done entirely in that language within each division, and only at the very top would the two come together. So the CRA for example, would be effectively divided into an anglophone CRA and a francophone CRA with all the CRA's activities (enforcement, processing, etc.) all being done separately, so the francophone CRA would process the taxes & do audits/enforcement of those who submitted their forms in French, the anglophone CRA would do likewise with who submitted their forms in English.

This would have probably been less efficient but it would have made for a better working environment. Right now federal civil service OB is arguably the worst of both worlds; you inhibit the career progress of anglophones and discourage them from seeking work in the PS, and at the same time you put francophone civil servants in a position where they often have to speak English anyway so their unilingual anglophone coworkers can understand them.

IIRC this was the recommendation of the Laurendeau-Dunton Commission but PET wanted no part of anything that would segregate the two language groups.

[Vixx]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Yes. I would recommend any unilingual anglophone to avoid the PS unless they are content with a dead end job. This includes IT because if you progress in your career, language will eventually become an issue. At that point, language becomes more important than maintaining or upgrading your technical skills.

This directly impacts the private sector, since that is where most of the unilingual anglophone majority in Ottawa ends up.

It really depends though. I know some people in high up gov positions who are unilingual anglophones and some who are "bilingual" but they're French is shaky.

From what I've researched and who I've spoken too, its a mixture of which government department you are in, luck and needs which will factor into how high your sealing is if you'd like to make a career in the government.

I'm at a crossroads myself right now as to whether I go and learn French (which is not an easy task) so I can open up some doors or jump into the private sector in the future depending on what I end up doing.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Vixx

It really depends though. I know some people in high up gov positions who are unilingual anglophones and some who are "bilingual" but they're French is shaky.

From what I've researched and who I've spoken too, its a mixture of which government department you are in, luck and needs which will factor into how high your sealing is if you'd like to make a career in the government.

I'm at a crossroads myself right now as to whether I go and learn French (which is not an easy task) so I can open up some doors or jump into the private sector in the future depending on what I end up doing.

They still have to pass the test (mostly). The person who started the thread stated he had no interest in learning French, which I assume means no interest in learning to pass the test.

[Marshsparrow]

sadly the second language training in place in Ottawa is there simply to help candidates pass the three tests - I've seen many spend months in second language training who are able to pass the tests but then not able to carry on a basic conversation when they return to work. Its a broken and humiliating system that holds many back from realizing their full career potential and many Francophones and Anglophones would agree that there should be something better put in place.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

sadly the second language training in place in Ottawa is there simply to help candidates pass the three tests - I've seen many spend months in second language training who are able to pass the tests but then not able to carry on a basic conversation when they return to work. Its a broken and humiliating system that holds many back from realizing their full career potential and many Francophones and Anglophones would agree that there should be something better put in place.

I agree with that. I think part of the problem is that they classify jobs with zero or very limited actual French use as bilingual so after people complete their training they have limited opportunity to practice.

[Acajack]

I believe that any job in the federal government that involves the oversight of staff automatically requires a certain level of bilingualism (hence the testing). This applies to supervisors, team leaders, managers all the way up the chain to more senior management positions.

[YOWflier]

... which is dumb because then you can't have an "English essential" manage a team of English essentials.

[Acajack]

If only they were willing to listen to my suggestions. (Which coincidentally align quite a bit with those of Laurendeau-Dunton from the 60s.)