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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut
I believe you just answered your own question.
Really not sure how CP is the bad guy here. They're just doing what all corporations do: try and get the most money possible ($400M).
Even then, they've agreed to sell at cheaper ($100M).
Exorbitant price? All City Council has to do is cancel one bike lane here, keep one viaduct there, and presto - new transit corridor. Instead, they've lowballed ($20M), tried to get the zoning changed, sued repeatedly, and flat-out refused to negotiate further. That's bad conduct, no matter how you look at it.
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Developers are not all over it because they know they can't build on it.
If they thought there was a chance, they too would pressure the city to change the zoning. But they know the city won't change the zoning, especially after winning the supreme court case. And it is not in their interests to damage any relations they have to get their hands on the land.
If the zoning were different, then that land would be worth $400 million.
CP is the bad guy here because they are taking an asset that was given to them, that they used to create an empire and make a fortune, and now using dirty tactics to try and up the value on the real estate.
CP doesn't want to proceed with the salvage value sale because a proper appraisal with the zoning in place would result in a $20 million evaluation ($50M tops). At that price, the city would buy it instantly.
CP is the bad buy because they are using extortion tactics to try and pray on the taxpayer... a taxpayer that was so kind to give them the asset in the first place.
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Originally Posted by Kisai
Honestly, the "perfect" solution is to build a Skytrain line down Arbutus (given ridership demand for it,) and build housing around it so the trains exist in something subway-like. This solves several problems:
a) Keeps the ground level space free for bike trails and walking trails like it is under the Expo line.
b) Boxes in the Skytrain to eliminate the visual and noise impact
c) Creates plenty of "cheap" rental housing if appropriately sound insulated.
But what CP most likely wants is to sell the land to Concord Pacific or one of the other Chinese developers who will just build more low-quality "luxury condos" that will end up staying empty.
I don't see a ground LRT/Streetcar being built down the line because it's a slower, noisier option than taking the Canada Line that parallels it. Unless the Canada Line reaches it's absolute maximum capacity and the city of Vancouver loses it's mind, it'll be empty for quite a while.
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Modern streetcars are incredibly quiet. When they were running the Olympic line in 2010, you would not believe how quiet it was.
Also, cost is a huge factor. Refurbishing the Olympic line cost $8.5 million for 2km of single track, platfroms, wires, and a siding.
So we could probably refurbish the 11km of Arbutus at $10 million/km (to double track it) before trains. So we are looking at $110 million to get the tracks in there. That wouldn't even buy us 1 km of Canada Line.
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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe
It is 3 km from the Canada Line. Why waste the money there when there are many, many other transit projects that would benefit the GVA more
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In Toronto, St Claire East is 2km away from St Claire station. In the downtown core they are even closer, and York Mills is only 4km form Wilson.
Toronto must be out of their mind! And all their streetcars crossing and paralleling the subways. INSANE in the membrane!
The 016 bus had 7 million boardings in 2014. The 5th busiest bus route in Translink.
To put that in perspective, the 096 and 097 each have less than 3.5 million annual boardings. And look at the upgrades they want/are getting.
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut
I still fail to understand how CP's asking price is ridiculous. What they'd like is $400M, but they're knocking it down to $100M; still pricey, but as we've seen from other projects, it's well within City Council's budget. Yet Vision's instead rezoned it and said "Well, since running streetcars down it won't get us $100M, how does $20M sound?"
I'd like to try that with a Mercedes dealership - just walk in, find a car, break the windows and engine, then say "Hey, since I'm going to be driving this thing like a used Toyota pickup anyway, the fair price is more like $800. Do we have a deal?"
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I think a better analogy was like if I gave a new computer to a struggling Mark Zuckerburg, and he used it to make Facebook. Now he doesn't need the computer anymore (he has thousands of employees and modern servers all over the world), so he asks me if I would like to buy it back, for $100 million.
Now, I think that is more plausible because other people might be interested in the computer because it has an intrinsic value. But the Arbutus Corridor does not. It's only value is what you can use it for. If you can only use it for transit, how much would you buy it for? No one has expressed interest in buying it at $400 million, therefore it is not worth $400 million.
If you had $100 million in cash, would you buy it? It's a steal right? Look at the land around it. But what can you do with it short of starting your own railroad?
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Originally Posted by logicbomb
As someone stated, the asking price is not ridiculous. It's realistic. CP's ability to capitalize off the line has been severely hindered by rezoning policies that have seen all industrial activity cease around this rail corridor. Why should CP sell the entire Arbutus stretch for a measly 20 mil? It's not an issue with Vision, but with previous govts not playing fair.
This corridor would be used for transportation- a fully separated pedestrian/cycling path. Surrounding neighborhoods there will venomously oppose any rail transportation down that corridor, and it would be political suicide to ram any LRT project through.
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$400 million is ridiculous. If you won the Powerball, would you buy the land? If that interests you, then I'm sure I can find you some land in the ALR to overpay for too.
And how do we know for sure the surrounding neighborhoods are venomously opposed to rail transportation.
They were against the elevated Skytrain Proposal in the 90's. They were against cut and cover RAV proposal in the '00s. Both are radically different from a surface streetcar. But they like transit enough to make the 016 the 5th busiest bus.