Winnipeg Retail

[cllew]

I have a book somewhere here at home about Eaton's and it said that none of the stores were profitable as such.

They were designed to be the dumping ground of all the costs of the Eaton empire. The Eaton family made their money from the real estate division that charged the retail stores a high rent and the credit card division.

[cllew]

Just read what I posted about T. Eaton reality charging high rent to the stores and that sounds like what I am reading about in Target's bankruptcy hearing.

Target US had a division that was charging the Canadian stores a large dollar amount for corporate services.

[CoryB]

I haven't gone hunting size numbers on Future Shop (and Best Buy) but recall reading their "old" format which covers virtually ever store in Canada have footprints in the 60,000 sq ft range. That the St James store has and external, ground level entrance with a long wall facing St James makes it far easier to split the space than the mess that is Polo Target.

In terms of replacements, a combo Zara and Zara Home could potentially occupy the whole space but that brand seems more destined for the mall proper. Dave and Busters in a split of the space could make sense. Another possibility could be GoodLife Fitness. If they were serious about their Target based expansion story the Future Shop locations make more sense. They could then lease out some of the extra space to an exercise appeal retail (ie Lululemon or similar) and setup a health eats place.

In terms of the Garden City location, well that ship sunk about 35 years ago when Kildonan Place mall opened. KP is relatively far from both St Vital Centre and Polo Park. Garden City then had the unfortunate challenge of being caught between KP and Polo. The area was still able to holds its own for a while however the opening of the Chief Peguis bridge and the second floor addition to Polo Park sealed its fate. In terms of a replacement for Future Shop at Garden City the landlord should rush to their phone and get the Dollar Tree people secured. The space might be a little bug for them but it is the smallest of the common Future Shop store styles so that could help. Another long shot possibility is talking to Lucky's or Young's about opening a store there.

[vjose32]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I haven't gone hunting size numbers on Future Shop (and Best Buy) but recall reading their "old" format which covers virtually ever store in Canada have footprints in the 60,000 sq ft range. That the St James store has and external, ground level entrance with a long wall facing St James makes it far easier to split the space than the mess that is Polo Target.

In terms of replacements, a combo Zara and Zara Home could potentially occupy the whole space but that brand seems more destined for the mall proper. Dave and Busters in a split of the space could make sense. Another possibility could be GoodLife Fitness. If they were serious about their Target based expansion story the Future Shop locations make more sense. They could then lease out some of the extra space to an exercise appeal retail (ie Lululemon or similar) and setup a health eats place.

In terms of the Garden City location, well that ship sunk about 35 years ago when Kildonan Place mall opened. KP is relatively far from both St Vital Centre and Polo Park. Garden City then had the unfortunate challenge of being caught between KP and Polo. The area was still able to holds its own for a while however the opening of the Chief Peguis bridge and the second floor addition to Polo Park sealed its fate. In terms of a replacement for Future Shop at Garden City the landlord should rush to their phone and get the Dollar Tree people secured. The space might be a little bug for them but it is the smallest of the common Future Shop store styles so that could help. Another long shot possibility is talking to Lucky's or Young's about opening a store there.

I think Young's is moving into the Maples IGA, least that would make good sense for them. As for Lucky's, who knows if they want to open up another one, and in that case why not the old Safeway instead?

Seems like the owners of Garden City have pretty much given up which is ridiculous. Maybe if the owners showed some initiative and did something with their mall to make it more attractive it would help. They haven't even given the mall a face lift in like 20 years! And they have a major vacancy with the theater space that could allow for a good expansion to the mall. Maybe Good Life should or will move out of the mall and into the former Future Shop, allowing the mall to fix it's problems with the theater space.

As for Dollar Tree i'm not sure if they want another location so close to the Northgate location, if so there is always the former Bargain Shop across the street from the mall that is currently vacant.

[laumag]

Originally Posted by vjose32

I think Young's is moving into the Maples IGA, least that would make good sense for them. As for Lucky's, who knows if they want to open up another one, and in that case why not the old Safeway instead?

Originally Posted by vjose32

The old Safeway is indeed just that ... old. I worked at Sears in 1970, just before the new Garden City Shopping Centre opened and the area across the street happened shortly thereafter, making both 45 years old give or take a decade. It would make sense to just boot the bank to the curb and tear down the whole thing.

Seems like the owners of Garden City have pretty much given up which is ridiculous. Maybe if the owners showed some initiative and did something with their mall to make it more attractive it would help. They haven't even given the mall a face lift in like 20 years! And they have a major vacancy with the theater space that could allow for a good expansion to the mall. Maybe Good Life should or will move out of the mall and into the former Future Shop, allowing the mall to fix it's problems with the theater space.

When Garden City was acquired by Rio Can, there was cosmetic improvements done. I was hopeful. I checked their web site and found that GCSC was listed on streets and avenues not even remotely in the area. I was curious as to where this huge real estate investment trust got their information. The list of existing stores was also incorrect. This is when my relationship with the Calgary based property manager began. There has been three property managers since the, but at least their GCSC information is correct now. There are less vacant store fronts now than then. As I mentioned earlier, I believe the new soccer complex will attract more traffic.
Time will tell.

As for Dollar Tree i'm not sure if they want another location so close to the Northgate location, if so there is always the former Bargain Shop across the street from the mall that is currently vacant.

Please God ... no more dollar stores. We have a Dollar Tree at Moore Centre, which no longer has the store it was named after. (Shindico manages this portion) Then, there is the Dollarama at Northgate. Then, there is the Dollarama located at the Maples Marketplace. The Dollar Tree on Keewatin and Burrows is another one and so on.

Once Target vacates Canada, retail will evolve. Nothing like having a brand new set of traffic lights and resurfaced roads for access to an empty Target Store and an empty Future Shop. Bewildering sometimes.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by cllew

Just read what I posted about T. Eaton reality charging high rent to the stores and that sounds like what I am reading about in Target's bankruptcy hearing.

Target US had a division that was charging the Canadian stores a large dollar amount for corporate services.

This is a pretty common play. You increase the rents to the operating company in an effort to lower the overall taxation to the holding company so you can declare dividends into various trusts, each of which have their own allowances for tax free income.

Whenever there's an operating company paying rents to a subsidiary of its own holding company, you'd generally want to normalize those facility costs to get a true picture of profitability.

[esquire]

^ I'm assuming what was said about the Garden City Eaton's wasn't referring to that sort of technical accounting wizardry to create losses, etc. I was thinking more in simple terms of the store brought in less than it cost to operate it, which certainly wouldn't surprise me when I think back to how empty and forlorn it looked more or less all the time.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I'm assuming what was said about the Garden City Eaton's wasn't referring to that sort of technical accounting wizardry to create losses, etc. I was thinking more in simple terms of the store brought in less than it cost to operate it, which certainly wouldn't surprise me when I think back to how empty and forlorn it looked more or less all the time.

When I think about it now, it blows my mind that there was ever an Eaton's at Garden City to begin with. But then again, the Eaton's of that era wasn't the same as its upscale modern iteration.

[CoryB]

Garden City mall is a real mess. When Eaton's left they would have taken just about any anchor and given all sorts of concessions. That is how the mess that is now the middle to east end of the mall happened. The Canadian Tire garden center effectively swallowed the mall entrance to what is currently GoodLife Fitness. The entrance where the movie theater was never had much for retail as the spaces seem very shallow. Now add in the lack of even tiny amounts of theater traffic. The theater space itself is primarily below grade and would need an expensive reconstruction for most tenants.

[MrGrinch]

Originally Posted by esquire

Despite all of the population growth in the NW corner of the city over the last 60 years, the Garden City shopping area on McPhillips has never really taken off.

As a resident of the NW End I can't figure this out either. With new areas like Amber Trails, Castlebury Meadows, Foxwarren Place, and Riverbend it's baffling that quality business just can't seem to survive in the area. These are amongst some of the fastest growing parts of the city.

Can't figure out if it's more population demographics of the NW end that don't support these kinds of stores (ie we are becoming the land of cheapo bargain stores). Or more supply-side that stores refuse to set up shop in the absence of any "synergistic retail community" with supporting retail space and traffic flow. I've always been a believer that with sufficient populations a retail base will thrive. But after watching places like Zellers, Chapters, Cineplex, Safeway, Red Lobster, Future Shop, etc all close have to wonder what it will take to get the NW end back on its feet.

I am kind of with you vjose. With closure of FS on Leila I have zero intention of driving now to Polo Park now to give Best Buy my business. Sour grapes. I'll be shopping at Amazon for my electronic purchases. Or when I need to see something in action before buying, would be more inclined to go to an alternate local electronics store.

[horrorbro123]

So Now Who Gonna Replace Old Future Shop Location In St James

[CoryB]

Hearing unconfirmed reports the Brandon Future Shop will convert to Best Buy. Considering Brandon does not currently have a Best Buy that would not be surprising.

One of the articles I read on the Best Buy restructuring hinted they are planning a wide rollout of the same day delivery service which was piloted in Toronto back in 2013. This would definitely make sense as an Amazon order can take close to a week to reach Winnipeg. If Best Buy can have that same product to me in under 12 hours and they will match Amazon's pricing guess where mine, and a lo of other people, will be ordering from.

Sorry, no source link as they updated the story and removed that bit.

There are also reports that while Best Buy Canada has not carried major appliances in store the withdrawal of the Future Shop brand will see that changed fairly quickly.

There is also some chatter that Best Buy should look at what Toys R Us is planning with the concept of making their stores places to come and play but in a more adult way. An easy to picture concept would be to have in-store video game tournaments. This would bring people through the doors and make the remaining stores more a place to go than a place to avoid.

Originally Posted by horrorbro123

So Now Who Gonna Replace Old Future Shop Location In St James

Too early to call. There is the Dave and Busters rumor which came about the Target site. The smaller and easier to subdivide space of Future Shop on St James would make more sense. Similar would be true for GoodLife Fitness if you think that announcement was valid. HomeSense with their one Winnipeg location could be another possibility. The biggest challenge with the Polo Park area now is it is relatively saturated making the retreat in Canadian retail hit that area especially hard. Something new to the Canadian market is another possibility but that is a wild guess at best. The typical store size and location of Future Shop would be in keeping with Kohl's but would they be willing to follow in Target's disastrous footsteps so soon? Also Primark has been rumored to be looking at Canada but those locations might be small for them but would let them quickly establish a footprint here. Time will tell as this definitely throws a wrench into the plans to find replacements for Target.

[vjose32]

Who cares? Polo has enough shops in that area as it is!

I noticed that nothing is happening with Maples IGA and it is still available, disappointing! Come on Youngs or Luckys!

Something going on with old Bargain Shop on Main but no idea what. Everything else vacant as usual!

[The Unknown Poster]

You never like hearing of people losing jobs but the news of Future Shop's demise made me smile. I had recently bemoaned the lack of Best Buy in south Winnipeg. That Pembina Future Shop was a joke.

I remember buying a VCR there when I was a kid. It was the place to go. Now you walk in there for something as simple as a DVD and God only knows where it might be. Could be six different sections, if they had it at all. Employees milling about in groups talking about whatever, no one wants to help you especially with something like a DVD. Easiest way to get help was to take an expensive item off the shelf and make your way towards the cashier...then they all want to "carry it to the front" for you. Yeah right.

Anyone know if there are plans to expand the stores? That Pembina location seems an awful lot smaller than St James...

[CoryB]

The Maples IGA actually accelerated their closing due to someone wanting to take over the space. After the store closed there was also construction happening looking like a gut/reno type of setup. That has not happened at other locations that closed around the same time. Perhaps the deal ended up falling through once the state of the building was seen?

In terms of the Future Shop on Pembina, I would not expect much to change. If you did not like it before having the paint colour changed from red to blue is going to do little to solve issues you might have had. As for the size compared to Best Buy at Polo Park, the trend for the chain is towards smaller locations as they have realized they don't need ever model and size of tv on display, instead they show a fewer products and focus more on products with faster sell through rates like cell phones, video games and wearable tech.

[esquire]

^ It seems as though there is a real glut of space at Polo Park now. Future Shop, Target, the undeveloped stadium site and the various spots farther north (around Ellice) that churn through different tenants. We've probably reached maximum big box demand around Polo Park for at least the next 5 years.

That said, there is an immense amount of retail in that area even compared to 20 years ago when it was basically just Polo Park SC, the big box furniture stores and a few shops along St. James St.

[Jammon]

Garden City is really a prime example of the changing face of retail. That mall used to be quite cool back when I was a youngin'. We used to hang out there all the time, and I have to tell you, I do not remember an empty space in that mall. The demographics of the north end are definitely the reason why Garden City has never been able to take off as a major shopping node. There are also no restaurants or chain restaurants in the entire area aside from Smittys, Sorrentos, Sals and the Thunderbird. Nothing makes it there.

As for Future Shop, they really were responsible for their own demise. There were lots of times I went to buy things and the item was only available online. It is a shame that all of these retail developments are opening up and jobs being lost. The Canadian retailer is dying and only government support could really keep these companies afloat..

[esquire]

^ I'm surprised that the FS at GC lasted as long as it did. It was such a puny location and didn't really ever seem all that busy. The Chapters that was originally next door only lasted a few years before closing down.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I'm surprised that the FS at GC lasted as long as it did. It was such a puny location and didn't really ever seem all that busy. The Chapters that was originally next door only lasted a few years before closing down.

Everything in GC closes down at some point. I remember when the Sals was a Branigans and before that, it was one of the three original Olive Garden locations in Winnipeg. And the Sunova CU was Red Lobster. Seems like everything good in that area closes down.

As an aside to retail- I had a thought: what I find amazing with the changing face of retail and online shopping is that travel agents are still viable business options. My travel agent is busier than ever. I just would have assumed with online bookings and people choosing to go online, it would have virtually eliminated the need for agents, but they seem to be weathering the market changes.

[horrorbro123]

The Source Will Be Closing For Renovations at Grant Park Shopping Centre Sometime ByThe End Of April