East Village Rejuvenation Plan

[J-D]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Never a popular opinion, but the sooner the DIC can be moved, the better for the EV

Pretty much true. I walk right near that area most days and almost prefer it when it's cold because there are less bums around.

I don't necessarily feel unsafe, but they're usually stumbling around and screaming and fighting and it's pretty annoying. I've never really noticed it to such a degree anywhere else in the core, save for that disgusting hobo park around Alpha house near Victoria park.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Don't know a single developer that would let people walk away from their deposits. They will sue. Things would have to take a major dive for purchasers to go through with it.

People walk away from deposits whenever the market dips. It is a two way street. The deposit doesn't lock in the price in a rising market. A developer that sued it's customers likely wouldn't stay in business.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Not to be the porcupine at a balloon party...

But I bet what you see under construction now will be about it for a while. I'd imagine there are going to be quite a few people walking away from deposits in the near term, overall softening of prices and Calgary's population numbers are sure to stumble a bit.

The question is just for how long. I hope not long. Something like the 90s where it's a good 10 years until we see any major construction would suck.

Not sure on what condo numbers are looking like, but the market is being flooded with Class A office space at near the price of service and there is still no one picking it up.

That's really not how it works. Verve is already well over 70% sold, so yes it will be getting underway this summer, and the RioCan block already has anchor tenants signed so yes will also be getting under way this summer. Cidex's East Village Tower, as it is rental, also has a good chance to get underway during the downturn, because rental towers don't need pre-sales to move forward (and our rental market is still going gangbusters). We could also see the ALT Hotel and XYC Building go ahead as they are commercial. Not to mention the New Central Library and Fort Calgary redevelopment

[chinook park]

the old school gas station across fm the no parking condo tower - love the juxtaposition. sure hope they keep it, has character that helps make the neighborhood.

[mellbell416]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Yup, I remember being fascinated watching the crackheads and junkies there from the Ctrain when I was going to SAIT in 2002, definitely had a "Hastings & Main" vibe to it.


I have been wondering this for a while, I bet the DIC will move eventually, though I have no idea where but that land is way too valuable for a homeless shelter. Not sure about the Salvation Army, that land will be pretty valuable at some point too.

I don't think it would be easy to move the DIC - any neighborhood is going to pull a hair-pulling, jumping-up-and-down NIMBY fit if you try to put a homeless shelter anywhere near them.

[lineman]

Especially a shelter of that magnitude. The DIC may have a chance, however, if they decentralize their operations into a few smaller centres. Even then, it wont be an easy feat.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by Tropics

TBPH I think that "is" the popular opinion, even if many people refrain from voicing it out loud.

Originally Posted by J-D

Pretty much true. I walk right near that area most days and almost prefer it when it's cold because there are less bums around.

I don't necessarily feel unsafe, but they're usually stumbling around and screaming and fighting and it's pretty annoying. I've never really noticed it to such a degree anywhere else in the core, save for that disgusting hobo park around Alpha house near Victoria park.

I also find the north bank of that area particularly bad. This park is usually a no go zone on a Friday or Saturday night:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.050499,-1...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sjnJnSY8ViCGix3Wi_ZNqSA!2e0

It's not so much the cracked out homeless people that make me feel uncomfortable, it's the drug dealers decked out in Fubu that give me the stink eye that me feel uncomfortable. When I walk to downtown I usually take centre street bridge. If I take edmonton trail I get people asking me "Are you looking for food?"...I assume that's code for rock.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by lineman

Especially a shelter of that magnitude. The DIC may have a chance, however, if they decentralize their operations into a few smaller centres. Even then, it wont be an easy feat.

Agreed! Smaller more mobile centers may be the solution.

What could the DIC be used for if it wasn't a homeless shelter?

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

Agreed! Smaller more mobile centers may be the solution.

What could the DIC be used for if it wasn't a homeless shelter?

An old rumour was that U of C wanted it as a downtown campus before they built the one on 8th St

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

An old rumour was that U of C wanted it as a downtown campus before they built the one on 8th St

The east village proposal was a huge project with other institutions in the east village where the library is now. 600,000 square feet of academic space and 650,000 square feet of commercial/residential. $200 million in 2006 dollars after a $30 million profit from the commercial/residential component was applied.

Massing model:

Source: Calgary Herald

The project for a time flirted with leasing the cultural south side of the Bow, but that was more per year than the province was willing to spend.

[hulkrogan]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

That's really not how it works. Verve is already well over 70% sold, so yes it will be getting underway this summer, and the RioCan block already has anchor tenants signed so yes will also be getting under way this summer. Cidex's East Village Tower, as it is rental, also has a good chance to get underway during the downturn, because rental towers don't need pre-sales to move forward (and our rental market is still going gangbusters). We could also see the ALT Hotel and XYC Building go ahead as they are commercial. Not to mention the New Central Library and Fort Calgary redevelopment

Stuff that is nearly sold will almost certainly go ahead. The rental building... I hope so. Rental will probably be the first part of residential to take a hit as people waiting on the sidelines start to buy as prices drop and rental vacancies return closer to normal as a result. It still seems like a rental property in that location would be hard to lose on.

The commercial is basically doomed. The market is already flooded.

[Chadillaccc]

You said that only the stuff that is already UC will go ahead. Verve, RioCan Retail, NCL will all go ahead regardless. It would be great if the East Village Tower, Alt Hotel, and XYC got going though, since most tenants that are needed are already signed.

I wasn't aware that the city suddenly had a surplus of hotel rooms? Also, you do realize that the residential sector has already taken a massive hit, all while our rental market has gotten stronger. Even if/when the rental market softens, it will be the last of the housing market to feel it, not the first.

[CalgaryAlex]

I feel like the problem with the DI is that the surrounding area is designed poorly for the "feeling" of safety. Once you get over the Langevin bridge to the south side of the river, I generally feel trapped. In front of me is a fenced-off empty lot and the DI itself. To my right is the end of the flyover onto 4th Ave, and to my left is the 5th Ave flyover and c-train bridge. It immediately creates a feeling of panic for me... I just feel like there isn't a clear way to escape.

There are no eyes on the area except for the homeless and drug dealers themselves, and perhaps a couple people on the Riverwalk (although they wouldn't even be facing my direction).

I don't even know how the city could change the feel of the area, as there are no empty lots of a decent size even available to develop and put more eyes on the area. The EV developments won't provide much, nor would developing the empty block between 5th and 6th Aves. Redeveloping the Bookers site would provide the same minimal impact.

It's a pretty hopeless area for the feeling of safety. So either the DI gets split up and moved to areas with better public observation, or they leave it there and hope that increased foot traffic from EV will encourage safety.

[CorporateWhore]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Rental will probably be the first part of residential to take a hit as people waiting on the sidelines start to buy as prices drop and rental vacancies return closer to normal as a result.

I've also heard the opposite about rental in times like this. There are less people with stable jobs, so there are also less people out there with the means/desire to take on a big financial responsibility like a mortgage. Renting is seen as lower risk, so more people do it.

If you've been saving for a place, and have the income stability to do so, then yeah, now (or soon, I'd still wait a bit) will definitely be the time to buy. But a lot of people tend to be frozen in times like this, and don't want to do anything big. So they turn to, or remain, in the rental market.

[Calgarian]

If the condo market slows down, buiding rental should become more feasible as they don't need a certain percentage of sales in order to secure financing. As long as the developer has the financial means (which they need anyway, regardless of the downturn) they can still build, and if other projects slow down, this should actually lower their costs.

[Calgarian]

moved.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

I've also heard the opposite about rental in times like this. There are less people with stable jobs, so there are also less people out there with the means/desire to take on a big financial responsibility like a mortgage. Renting is seen as lower risk, so more people do it.

If you've been saving for a place, and have the income stability to do so, then yeah, now (or soon, I'd still wait a bit) will definitely be the time to buy. But a lot of people tend to be frozen in times like this, and don't want to do anything big. So they turn to, or remain, in the rental market.

I agree. There are probably a lot of people sitting on that down payment they saved up atm "just incase". Now is a nice time to have a bank account with some cash in it and the flexability renting allows to quickly adjust to a changing job market.

[Chadillaccc]

Exactly Calgarian, and let's not forget that any project starting today (in the oil collapse) will be completed when Calgary is back on top again, in 2 - 3 years.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

If the condo market slows down, buiding rental should become more feasible as they don't need a certain percentage of sales in order to secure financing. As long as the developer has the financial means (which they need anyway, regardless of the downturn) they can still build, and if other projects slow down, this should actually lower their costs.

But the bank will be less willing to cover the same percentage of construction costs with rental. Half dozen of one......

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by red_179

People that walk away from their deposits play a very risky game. The deposit is not the full extent of damages that the builder/developer can have against a purchaser that defaults on their purchase contract. If the builder/developer can't sell the unit at the same price, then they can sue the original purchaser for the difference in the purchase price, along with all carrying costs of the property until they can find a new buyer.

Suing average consumers is waste of time in these situations, they will just file for bankruptcy.