Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[SOSS]

When they do these 'averages' they should remove the outliers. It would make the numbers a little bit better. Not by much though since each implementation of each type of technology is unique.

[quobobo]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Maybe some small European cities it costs that, but in big expensive western cities subways always cost a crap ton. London's newest 'metro' (Crossrail) line is ~$25-30 billion.

Read the link again. London and New York are both outliers with costs >= $1B/km.

There are plenty of big expensive first-world cities on that list that are much cheaper, including Paris, Tokyo, and Singapore.

[Alex Mackinnon]

The other thing that skews many of the projects at the top of that list is the length.

East Side Access is super short, but has an absolutely gigantic station cavern excavated under Grand Central Station. There isn't much distance to dilute the cost of that in a per km basis.

The Central Subway in San Francisco is also similar, not a long tunnel but the number of stations drives up the cost per km. Light Rail Trains and their pantrographs mean the tunnel has to be taller and is subsequently more expensive.

Acquiring and launching a tunnel boring machine is also a fairly fixed cost compared to most construction items. So if you dilute this with more km per TBM then you get lower costs. Projects like Crossrail with more TBMs also mean that fixed (ish) cost is multiplied, but overall the timeline of the project ends up shorter.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by quobobo

Read the link again. London and New York are both outliers with costs >= $1B/km.

There are plenty of big expensive first-world cities on that list that are much cheaper, including Paris, Tokyo, and Singapore.

Interesting, I didn't realise it could go so cheap, although we do have to trust his numbers (we could simplify the costs for Calgary's West LRT and say it cost ~$2B per km of tunnel). As another poster mentioned, there are often good reasons for the high cost - in London it is due to huge stations threaded between many tube lines etc.

The scale of these projects is often enormous - and they have to be because that is what is required to get value for money. Cheaping out is always regretted in the long term.

What sort of costs are likely for new subways in Toronto, I seem to remember it being fairly expensive?

[red-paladin]

Title updated to: Broadway Millennium Line Extension | Proposed

[GlassCity]

The referendum question was released today:


[I]https://twitter.com/jeffnagel/status/543118555382702080/photo/1

Anybody else notice that "Arbutus" isn't mentioned in the Broadway subway extension? I don't think that's to be taken lightly. Hopefully they find a way to get it all the way to UBC. I doubt it means it could go shorter than Arbutus though, since it was in the Mayor's plan.

[officedweller]

From Vancouvermarket.ca:
(whose pic shows the corner at Cypress, not Arbutus)

Translink Acquires West Broadway Corner Lot

Posted on December 17, 2014

Translink has acquired a 50 ft. lot at the corner of West Broadway and Arbutus Street for $6,250,000, or $370 per buildable SF based on the current C-3A zoning which permits a density of 3.0 FSR. The 2-storey retail and office building on the site has holding income.


...

http://www.vancouvermarket.ca/2014/12/17/translink-acquires-west-broadway-corner-lot/

Seems like an odd location.

Halfway between Arbutus and Burrard, and not on the south (closer to 10th Ave), either.

[squeezied]

This property wouldn't be for the station right? I thought the Pinnacle development at the southeast corner of West Broadway and Arbutus had a provisional space for a future station.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by squeezied

This property wouldn't be for the station right? I thought the Pinnacle development at the southeast corner of West Broadway and Arbutus had a provisional space for a future station.

Yes, it does.
I suppose it could be for vent shaft and /or substation - but that would also suggest the line would be under Broadway itself, rather than 10th Ave.

[Kwik-E-Mart]

Will this officially confirm that the platform is between Cypress and Arbutus? If so, then the station serves Burrard Street quite well.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

The referendum question was released today:


[I]https://twitter.com/jeffnagel/status/543118555382702080/photo/1

Anybody else notice that "Arbutus" isn't mentioned in the Broadway subway extension? I don't think that's to be taken lightly. Hopefully they find a way to get it all the way to UBC. I doubt it means it could go shorter than Arbutus though, since it was in the Mayor's plan.

You are absolutely right! Considering that Broadway itself doesn't go all the way to UBC and yet the document specifically says "along Broadway" and nowhere else. Very reassuring indeed that the Broadway Line will NOT extend all the way for those self entitled UBC students...

[Vin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Yes, it does.
I suppose it could be for vent shaft and /or substation - but that would also suggest the line would be under Broadway itself, rather than 10th Ave.

The line itself could be under 10th Ave but the station entrances on the Broadway side. A short 1-block underground passage can link the entrance to the line.

[Zassk]

Maybe necessary for the terminus of the bus to UBC? It'll be one heck of a bus loop.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Vin

The line itself could be under 10th Ave but the station entrances on the Broadway side. A short 1-block underground passage can link the entrance to the line.

Yeah, but then a parcel on the south side of Broadway would have been more desirable to hedge bets, as it is closer to 10th Ave. The one purchased is on the north side.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

You are absolutely right! Considering that Broadway itself doesn't go all the way to UBC and yet the document specifically says "along Broadway" and nowhere else. Very reassuring indeed that the Broadway Line will NOT extend all the way for those self entitled UBC students...

As a UBC student you're not gonna get me to agree with you. It's the third highest employment area in the province, and let me tell you I'd much rather spend the 3 hours a day I spend on a bus, studying. It is far less entitled for such an enormous destination to ask for rapid transit that would relieve virtually every major east-west route in the city, than for places like Surrey who have very low density yet feel insulted that they don't have rapid transit lines all over.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

As a UBC student you're not gonna get me to agree with you. It's the third highest employment area in the province, and let me tell you I'd much rather spend the 3 hours a day I spend on a bus, studying. It is far less entitled for such an enormous destination to ask for rapid transit that would relieve virtually every major east-west route in the city, than for places like Surrey who have very low density yet feel insulted that they don't have rapid transit lines all over.

So basically, you want the local, provincial and federal taxpayers, many of whom live in Surrey and have been paying already high taxes but getting little in return, to finance the $3 billion dollars worth of transit so that *you* will be able to save "three hours" of time in the bus? And perhaps instead of spending hours upon hours in this forum talking nonsense, perhaps you should spend that time studying instead?

[dleung]

^^That $3 billion will be better spent than on any other transit project in the country. Can have this conversation again when Surrey has a transit ridership corridor above 100,000ppd

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

So basically, you want the local, provincial and federal taxpayers, many of whom live in Surrey and have been paying already high taxes but getting little in return, to finance the $3 billion dollars worth of transit so that *you* will be able to save "three hours" of time in the bus? And perhaps instead of spending hours upon hours in this forum talking nonsense, perhaps you should spend that time studying instead?

Perhaps they're a planning student or architect. Personally I just worked very hard in the summers and lived cheaply in Point Gray.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

So basically, you want the local, provincial and federal taxpayers, many of whom live in Surrey and have been paying already high taxes but getting little in return, to finance the $3 billion dollars worth of transit so that *you* will be able to save "three hours" of time in the bus? And perhaps instead of spending hours upon hours in this forum talking nonsense, perhaps you should spend that time studying instead?

I don't see all that much difference between that and asking everyone outside of Surrey to pay for their LRT system...

That having been said, it makes sense to me that UBC itself should chip in something to merit a UBC extension, rather like YVR did.

[libtard]

Fingers crossed this never gets built. Metro Van is already blanketed in public transit options. Time for our highway network to catch up