McMaster University

[davidcappi]

Mac should just build on the north part of the property they own already. That would definitely stimulate some activity on the lot west of King and Bay.

[oldcoote]

Definitely not a fan of the 'increased undergrad enrollment'. That's not good news for Ainslie Wood/Westdale.
MAC should stop hiding behind the veil of 'higher education' and admit they are no more than a corporation.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton

"Farr says he is "100 per cent confident (McMaster) has a very keen interest in downtown." He said Councillor Brian McHattie has worked with McMaster for months on the issue."

McHattie has worked for months on the issue? When was he planning to talk about it publicly? As for Farr, under his watch nothing seems to have happened with the old Delta Bingo/Kresge building.

I'm with markbarbera on this: the city should not rush in, and should resist a false sense of urgency.

McHattie and Farr should also explain why they have been having secret discussions with McMaster University for months without including any other members of council prior to this last minute motion on Friday. Those who were upset about the one-off closed-door meeting between the Minister of Transport and Mayor Bratina and his advisory committee should be livid with Farr's admission that he and McHattie have been quietly meeting on their own with McMaster officials for months.

[movingtohamilton]

More on the Mac screw-up at council.

http://www.900chml.com/2014/08/18/do...sc_ref=twitter

[mattgrande]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

McHattie and Farr should also explain why they have been having secret discussions with McMaster University for months without including any other members of council prior to this last minute motion on Friday. Those who were upset about the one-off closed-door meeting between the Minister of Transport and Mayor Bratina and his advisory committee should be livid with Farr's admission that he and McHattie have been quietly meeting on their own with McMaster officials for months.

I'm angry about both and I'm angry that was still don't have a lobbyist registry. How many times have they met? How has Mac been greasing the wheels? We have no idea...

[king10]

Originally Posted by oldcoote

Definitely not a fan of the 'increased undergrad enrollment'. That's not good news for Ainslie Wood/Westdale.
MAC should stop hiding behind the veil of 'higher education' and admit they are no more than a corporation.

Canada's population is increasing and more people are attending university. Where do you expect them to go? Mac is a public institution, if you think they are a corporation then you should have a look at some of the private universities in the states for a reality check. And if you claim Mac is a corporation then EVERY university in Canada must be one as well. May as well stop increasing university enrolment no matter how large the population gets. It can be an elitist institution for the best of the best of the best Everyone else can work at McDonalds after high school.

Or of course we could build new public universities to deal with the increased demand for higher education, but that would cost 5 times as much as expanding current campuses and you and I the taxpayer would foot the bill for that. But hey as long as its not in my back yard!!

Mac is the second leading employer in the city and puts Hamilton on the map. globally. Their researches are regularly on National News stations in Canada and even CNN in the states(you know interviews with higher educated individuals). Part of their funding comes form undergrad tuition fees.

If you're looking to move to the Westdale area you should know its a University area. The university moved there in 1930, I highly doubt anyone living there purchased and still lived in their house prior to that(unless they purchased their house at 15 years old and are alive today at 100 living in westdale). For all the others who moved there, they should have done so expecting to live in a University atmosphere, not move there and become a NIMBY pretending like they had no idea a 25 000 student university dominated the neighbourhood with plans for growth to deal with more university bound students.

[oldcoote]

Originally Posted by king10

Canada's population is increasing and more people are attending university. Where do you expect them to go? Mac is a public institution, if you think they are a corporation then you should have a look at some of the private universities in the states for a reality check. And if you claim Mac is a corporation then EVERY university in Canada must be one as well. May as well stop increasing university enrolment no matter how large the population gets. It can be an elitist institution for the best of the best of the best Everyone else can work at McDonalds after high school.

Or of course we could build new public universities to deal with the increased demand for higher education, but that would cost 5 times as much as expanding current campuses and you and I the taxpayer would foot the bill for that. But hey as long as its not in my back yard!!

Mac is the second leading employer in the city and puts Hamilton on the map. globally. Their researches are regularly on National News stations in Canada and even CNN in the states(you know interviews with higher educated individuals). Part of their funding comes form undergrad tuition fees.

If you're looking to move to the Westdale area you should know its a University area. The university moved there in 1930, I highly doubt anyone living there purchased and still lived in their house prior to that(unless they purchased their house at 15 years old and are alive today at 100 living in westdale). For all the others who moved there, they should have done so expecting to live in a University atmosphere, not move there and become a NIMBY pretending like they had no idea a 25 000 student university dominated the neighbourhood with plans for growth to deal with more university bound students.

Grow up king10. MAC isn't growing to meet the demand of the Canadian population. They're growing to increase revenues, and much of that isn't coming from Canadians, it's from the more lucrative international and continuing education student base.

All universities should have an obligation to turn out grads that, you know, have a chance of getting a job, instead of flooding the market with say, teachers, that can't find employment. Otherwise, they're just participating in an immoral cash grab.

And while it's true that MAC is a large employer, it seems odd that they continue to cut administrative and support jobs, doesn't it?

As for Westdale, the growing student ghetto should be a concern to all Hamiltonians. MAC doesn't give a shit about where these students live, they just continue to increase enrollment. Westdale is a neighbourhood like any other. Balance is required.

[king10]

Originally Posted by oldcoote

Grow up king10. MAC isn't growing to meet the demand of the Canadian population. They're growing to increase revenues, and much of that isn't coming from Canadians, it's from the more lucrative international and continuing education student base.

All universities should have an obligation to turn out grads that, you know, have a chance of getting a job, instead of flooding the market with say, teachers, that can't find employment. Otherwise, they're just participating in an immoral cash grab.

And while it's true that MAC is a large employer, it seems odd that they continue to cut administrative and support jobs, doesn't it?

As for Westdale, the growing student ghetto should be a concern to all Hamiltonians. MAC doesn't give a shit about where these students live, they just continue to increase enrollment. Westdale is a neighbourhood like any other. Balance is required.

Grow up? Mac doesn't just churn out teachers. Their MBA school which I am apart of is one of the biggest in Canada developing high level Exec's, entrepreneurs, and leading innovators . When i graduated from Mac commerce I was employed within 4 months, not an unemployed teacher as you suggest. Their Health Science Program churns out the brightest new doctors in the country. Their engineering program has thousands of students that graduate every year. Their nursing programs graduates 100's of much needed nurses every year. Their Kinesiology programs graduates hundreds of students who go on to open physiotherapy clinics or become rehab specialists. (HIGHER EDUCATED professions)

After living in Westdale as a student for 4 years I now own and rent out a student residence in Westdale and I can confirm there has been and there still is a healthy balance of families and students and that balance is mutually respected. The neighbours have no issue with the students and I ensure the property is well maintained.

Perhaps you should grow up instead of generalizing all students who attend Mac as future teachers. Mac DOESN"T EVEN have a teaching program. If you're looking at a University that is participating in an immoral cash grab of flooding the market with more teachers look at Brock U who guess what, HAS THEIR TEACHING CAMPUS IN HAMILTON.

Furthermore you are contradicting yourself. You complain that undergrad enrolment is growing and contributing to the "student ghetto" yet you say Mac is mostly expanding its continuing education program. Newsflash continuing ed isn't undergrad. Its most usually well established individuals with jobs going back to school part time who aren't living in this god for saken "ghetto" you speak of.

And on the international student front. Most of those students come from wealthy families in Asia and they can be seen driving around Westdale in their Audi's and BMW's. Is that what you'd like to see? How is that for your "balance". When there is a 25 000 student University in Westdale you can't expect it to be "balanced" like a neighbourhood in Anacaster or Dundas.

"Mac not giving a shit where these students live" good one considering they have a whole site and department catering to off campus living. Even breaking down the city into different zones and encouraging students to live downtown through the use of the HSR bus pass included in tuition.
https://macoffcampus.mcmaster.ca

And more lucrative int'l students???? They pay the same overall tuition as CDN residents only the government subsides the costs of Canadian citizens. Its not more lucrative.

Lastly Mac isn't cutting admin and support jobs? They're just asking for large pay raises and the University being a public institution isn't receptive to that given that the government instituted a provincial wage freeze to all public employes to help balance the budget. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4568851/

So please, save the personal attack. I have done my fair share of growing up. You on the other hand seem to have lots more to do as evidenced by your personal attacks on a discussion forum.

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by king10

Or of course we could build new public universities to deal with the increased demand for higher education, but that would cost 5 times as much as expanding current campuses and you and I the taxpayer would foot the bill for that. But hey as long as its not in my back yard!!

I actually personally have a favourable opinion of building satellite campuses in cities and towns that do not currently have post-secondary education. I think that Laurier’s campus in Brantford has been a success for both them and the town, and a campus in Milton would make a lot of sense. I have nothing against Brock’s campus in East Hamilton, either. I don’t think universities should be viewed principally as economic development (as in supporting local restaurants and such with student populations and staff), but it’s undeniable that this can happen, so locating the campuses in cities that do not have them currently makes a lot of sense. And in terms of making education more accessible.

Does constructing a new school or campus really cost five times what it does to accommodate new students at an existing campus? I’ve never read that. It makes sense that it would cost more, but there are benefits to the area that might not come from placing more students in areas already saturated with them.

[movingtohamilton]

Originally Posted by king10

...So please, save the personal attack. I have done my fair share of growing up. You on the other hand seem to have lots more to do as evidenced by your personal attacks on a discussion forum.

You are an excellent cheerleader for Mac, and I'm sure the university is grateful for your efforts and those of others. But you might want to re-read your own words and dial it down a bit. You seem pretty thin-skinned when someone challenges your views.

[king10]

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton

You are an excellent cheerleader for Mac, and I'm sure the university is grateful for your efforts and those of others. But you might want to re-read your own words and dial it down a bit. You seem pretty thin-skinned when someone challenges your views.

Respectfully noted. I'll do my best to be more open to the ideas of others. thanks for the insight! cheers

[oldcoote]

Originally Posted by king10

Grow up? Mac doesn't just churn out teachers. Their MBA school which I am apart of is one of the biggest in Canada developing high level Exec's, entrepreneurs, and leading innovators . When i graduated from Mac commerce I was employed within 4 months, not an unemployed teacher as you suggest. Their Health Science Program churns out the brightest new doctors in the country. Their engineering program has thousands of students that graduate every year. Their nursing programs graduates 100's of much needed nurses every year. Their Kinesiology programs graduates hundreds of students who go on to open physiotherapy clinics or become rehab specialists. (HIGHER EDUCATED professions)

After living in Westdale as a student for 4 years I now own and rent out a student residence in Westdale and I can confirm there has been and there still is a healthy balance of families and students and that balance is mutually respected. The neighbours have no issue with the students and I ensure the property is well maintained.

Perhaps you should grow up instead of generalizing all students who attend Mac as future teachers. Mac DOESN"T EVEN have a teaching program. If you're looking at a University that is participating in an immoral cash grab of flooding the market with more teachers look at Brock U who guess what, HAS THEIR TEACHING CAMPUS IN HAMILTON.

Furthermore you are contradicting yourself. You complain that undergrad enrolment is growing and contributing to the "student ghetto" yet you say Mac is mostly expanding its continuing education program. Newsflash continuing ed isn't undergrad. Its most usually well established individuals with jobs going back to school part time who aren't living in this god for saken "ghetto" you speak of.

And on the international student front. Most of those students come from wealthy families in Asia and they can be seen driving around Westdale in their Audi's and BMW's. Is that what you'd like to see? How is that for your "balance". When there is a 25 000 student University in Westdale you can't expect it to be "balanced" like a neighbourhood in Anacaster or Dundas.

"Mac not giving a shit where these students live" good one considering they have a whole site and department catering to off campus living. Even breaking down the city into different zones and encouraging students to live downtown through the use of the HSR bus pass included in tuition.
https://macoffcampus.mcmaster.ca

And more lucrative int'l students???? They pay the same overall tuition as CDN residents only the government subsides the costs of Canadian citizens. Its not more lucrative.

Lastly Mac isn't cutting admin and support jobs? They're just asking for large pay raises and the University being a public institution isn't receptive to that given that the government instituted a provincial wage freeze to all public employes to help balance the budget. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4568851/

So please, save the personal attack. I have done my fair share of growing up. You on the other hand seem to have lots more to do as evidenced by your personal attacks on a discussion forum.

I think you missed the jist of my point. So I'll ask you a simple question.

Are you working in the field in which you graduated?

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by king10

int'l students???? They pay the same overall tuition as CDN residents only the government subsides the costs of Canadian citizens. Its not more lucrative.

Via CFS-Ontario:

"In the 1970s, international students did not pay differential fees in Ontario. As successive provincial governments since then have divested from public post-secondary education, institutions have used differential fees for international students as a revenue generating strategy. International students are seen as an easy revenue source for the provincial government and institutions since they perceive international students as having less direct political influence in Canada.

Tuition fees in Ontario are regulated by the provincial government. In March 2013, the government introduced a tuition fee framework that would allow tuition fees to increase by three to five per cent annually. Unfortunately, international tuition fees are not regulated under this framework. Institutions are free to raise international tuition fees as high as they want from year to year, with some programs seeing fee increases of up to 35 per cent in a single year. International tuition fees have been unregulated since 1996 when the provincial government discontinued institutional funding for international students."

For example, between 2011-12 and 2012-13, McMaster's Computer Science program saw tuition increases of between 4% and 8% for domestic undergraduates, while international undergrads enrolling in the same program in 2012 saw 31.52% tuition increases over the previous term. Domestic B. Com undergrads saw tuition rise 4-4.5% in the same period, while international B. Com undergrads first registered in 2012 saw 2012-13 tuition jump 41.38% compared to the previous academic year. (International undergrads already enrolled at McMaster as of 2011-12 experienced comparatively modest 6% tuition increases for 2012-13.)

[king10]

Originally Posted by oldcoote

I think you missed the jist of my point. So I'll ask you a simple question.

Are you working in the field in which you graduated?

yes. majored in finance. working in capital markets/ investment management/ corporate banking

[oldcoote]

Originally Posted by king10

yes. majored in finance. working in capital markets/ investment management/ corporate banking

Good for you.

I have a cousin working on her 2nd masters. She's 30 and can't find a job in her field of study so she's changing it. She'll have incurred so much student debt by the time she's done that she'll be paying it off well into her 40's.

So much for a head start in life.

[Jon Dalton]

I also graduated Mac and got a job in my field right away. The degree paid for itself in a few years. Not that everyone gets so lucky, but for fields like engineering, business and health sciences it is a safe bet. And those are Mac's strong programs.

What Mac needs to do is beef up its spinoff of related jobs here in Hamilton. It seems like they're just spitting out graduates to earn and spend elsewhere.

[king10]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

I also graduated Mac and got a job in my field right away. The degree paid for itself in a few years. Not that everyone gets so lucky, but for fields like engineering, business and health sciences it is a safe bet. And those are Mac's strong programs.

What Mac needs to do is beef up its spinoff of related jobs here in Hamilton. It seems like they're just spitting out graduates to earn and spend elsewhere.

This true for the commerce and mba program. All the banking and corp head officr jobs are in Toronto. Cant see that changing anytime soon.

[king10]

Originally Posted by oldcoote

Good for you.

I have a cousin working on her 2nd masters. She's 30 and can't find a job in her field of study so she's changing it. She'll have incurred so much student debt by the time she's done that she'll be paying it off well into her 40's.

So much for a head start in life.

Thats unfortunate. Sometimes its the supply and demand of jobs. Its often cyclcal over generations. 30 years ago teaching jobs were in high demand, now not so much. Sometimes you need to have a look at job prospects for your field before choosing your program.

[oldcoote]

Originally Posted by king10

Thats unfortunate. Sometimes its the supply and demand of jobs. Its often cyclcal over generations. 30 years ago teaching jobs were in high demand, now not so much. Sometimes you need to have a look at job prospects for your field before choosing your program.

I think universities should also be doing that, before offering a program.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by oldcoote

I think universities should also be doing that, before offering a program.

Universities are not trade schools, they are academic institutions. They are meant to teach people how to think not how to do things. Most of the programs that teach trades like engineering and nursing were nothing more than apprenticeships only a generation ago. Even law and business were basically trades with apprentices up until the WWII. I have an older uncle, he's in his 90's, who is a lawyer, he never went to university or law school.