18-30 King St East | 106.9m | 32 fl | Proposed

[SteelTown]

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/...15PED13208.pdf

Financial assistance up to $850,000 would be available under the Hamilton Heritage Property Improvement Grant Program if the buildings (or part of the buildings) were designated under Parts IV of the Ontario Heritage Act and preservation/ conservation/stability work was undertaken on the buildings.

The owner would also be eligible for grants up to $250,000 under the GORE Building Improvement Grant Program if the buildings are not demolished and improvements to the existing buildings were undertaken. The GORE Building Improvement Grant Program would also be available to the owner if the properties were demolished and the building facades were reconstructed using the site’s previously existing historic façade elements and materials as supported by historical images or other documentation. The reconstruction and its related costs (e.g. cataloguing and storage) would be the only eligible cost under the GORE program in this case.

[Beedok]

When the project would cost 10s of millions a few 100k doesn't seem like much of an insentive.

[mattgrande]

I believe those are per-building prices. If they are (and I believe there are four buildings), then that amounts to $4.4 million. Certainly nothing to sneeze at.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by mattgrande

I believe those are per-building prices. If they are (and I believe there are four buildings), then that amounts to $4.4 million.

It's the net amount. From the heritage grant brief, details on the conditional pre-approval:

RECOMMENDATION

(a)That a grant commitment to an upset limit of $850,000 be approved under the Hamilton Heritage Property Improvement Grant Program for Hughson Business Space Corporation (Marvin Barnett, David Blanchard, Ronald Quinn, William Rogan) owner of 18, 20, 22, 24 and 28 King Street East, conditional upon all terms and conditions of the Program being met and subject to complete program applications being submitted no later than December 31, 2014;

(b) That a grant commitment to an upset limit of $250,000 be approved under the GORE Building Improvement Grant Program for Hughson Business Space Corporation (Marvin Barnett, David Blanchard, Ronald Quinn, William Rogan) owner of 18, 20, 22, 24 and 28 King Street East, conditional upon all terms and conditions of the program being met.

And details on the Hamilton Heritage Property Grant Program:

The Program offers a grant for structural/stability work required to conserve and restore heritage features of properties and, the conservation and restoration of heritage features of properties that are designated under Parts IV or V of the Ontario Heritage Act. For projects valued at $40,000 or less, the grant is based on 50% of the total project cost to a maximum grant of $20,000 for eligible work under the Program. For projects valued over $40,000, the grant includes $20,000 (i.e. 50% of $40,000), plus an additional grant based on 25% of the total project cost over $40,000, to a maximum additional grant of $130,000. In total, no more than $150,000 will be granted for eligible work under the Program. The Program also offers an additional $20,000 grant for heritage related reports/assessments/studies.

Still, they didn't even apply for the grants.


Saving Gore façades eclipses $1m grants: owner
(Hamilton Spectator, Matthew Van Dongen, Nov 29 2013)

The co-owner of five Gore Park properties facing demolition says $1 million in heritage grants would still only cover half the cost of salvaging the historic building façades.

Councillors will be asked next week to approve up to $1.1 million for the owners of 18-28 King St. E. if they agree to preserve enough of the buildings — particularly the historic storefronts — to qualify for a heritage designation.

It's a "unique" recommendation, considering the building owners haven't officially applied for the heritage cash or committed to saving the buildings, acknowledged urban renewal manager Glen Norton.

"It's like a conditional approval …. We don't normally do it, but I think we'd consider it for significant projects and buildings," said Norton, noting the increasingly loud public protest over the looming demolition of the properties.

"We're having productive discussions with the owners and this is a way to give them some certainty — if you do your part, the funds are there."

Buildings co-owner David Blanchard said he's "exploring the opportunities" associated with the grants, which would require provincial designation to access the full amount.

But he added it will cost at least $2 million to preserve the front of each of the five buildings. Removing historic façade elements and adding them to a new building would cost less, but likely would not qualify for heritage designation.

"If we preserve the façades, we would like it to be revenue neutral," Blanchard said. "If we spend an extra million dollars on that alone, I don't see how we'd ever get it back."

[davidcappi]

God damnit, as much as I'd love to see those facades stay, I can't help but feel like I'd love a huge modern wall of glass there, or something really architecturally striking. I LOVE those buildings, but they're in such disrepair, and it'll be tough to find uses for them that can bring in money. If they knocked them all down, and replaced them with something really modern and clean, I wouldn't be sad.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Cleaned up, those buildings would be gorgeous and act as a magnet for the Gore. Something new? Not sure what the point would be. This is the historic centre of the city and the architecture should reflect that.

[coalminecanary]

Oh darn, the taxpayers are only going to cover half the costs. wah wah wah. Expropriate for 1.5 times what blanchard paid, designate, then sell at profit to someone who gives a shit. Problem solved.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

^Bingo!

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

Oh darn, the taxpayers are only going to cover half the costs. wah wah wah. Expropriate for 1.5 times what blanchard paid, designate, then sell at profit to someone who gives a shit. Problem solved.

I guess the problem is that there is no one who is willing to pay the cost to do what you would like them to do. Has Graham Crawford made any headway in his fund-raising crusade to get the money needed to save the facades? If Blanchard is willing to pick up half of the added cost to preserve the facades that really is the best case scenario (or least-worst, depending on your perspective). Isn't he already sitting on a demolition permit for the site pending the outcome of these discussions?

[Jon Dalton]

I guess the problem is that there is no one who is willing to pay the cost to do what you would like them to do.

It may be tempting to assume that but we don't actually know because the buildings have not been on the market since Blanchard bought them. That was over 10 years ago in a different market than we have today.

While Graham Crawford's efforts are commendable, he is acting in an activist capacity rather than a real estate developer or investor. Activists follow developments like this one and propose solutions not solicited by the building owners, out of a non-financial community interest. Most developers looking for a profit wouldn't step in a hornet's nest of disputed properties that aren't even for sale. They make offers on available properties.

We can't properly judge the market's appetite for heritage sensitive redevelopment of the Gore buildings without a recent listing. However we can look at the evidence provided by other somewhat comparable properties - Treble Hall, James Street Baptist, the Dominion Furniture Building, Thomas Building, and the Connaught. The jury is still out on some of those, but there is a consistent record of money being invested and attempts being made to respect the heritage.

On the other hand, most of our recent demo by neglect examples had not been on the market for a while by the time they fell - Century Theatre, Balfour building, Acclamation Lofts site, Tivoli lobby for example.

I believe the most recent evidence suggests there is indeed a market for heritage sensitive redevelopment of the Gore Park properties if they were designated and put on the open market, either by Blanchard or through expropriation.

[davidcappi]

If they weren't to be restored, I'd love to see Mohawk or McMaster build a downtown campus in that spot. Either there, or in between the CIBC building and the Piggot Tower.

[coalminecanary]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

I guess the problem is that there is no one who is willing to pay the cost to do what you would like them to do.

This is wrong. At least one significant offer was presented to WB, and their response was "not for sale".

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

This is wrong. At least one significant offer was presented to WB, and their response was "not for sale".

Maybe it wasn't significant enough. Blanchard isn't running a charity and is under no obligation to sell unless they feel that it is in their best interests to do so.
Considering the properties are more than likely costing them money to operate and haven't been able to sustain themselves through rent over the years, I would think that they would want to recover those costs in the sale price as well.

[coalminecanary]

These properties have been tenanted almost continuously, and by Blanchard's own admission their improvement expenditures have been close to zero. Your estimations are not based in reality.

Besides your bad math, even if they had lost money over the past decade, that is nobody's fault but their own; they have been free to sell them at any moment.

Blanchard is holding city hall hostage in order to secure funding for the project - and his most recent story is that a million dollars isn't enough. He certainly isn't a charity, but he wants all of the taxpayers in the city to donate money to him as if he were one.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

This is wrong. At least one significant offer was presented to WB, and their response was "not for sale".

What was this significant offer, and did the party making the offer commit to restoring the properties?

[coalminecanary]

My understanding is that it was double what WB paid.

[CaptainKirk]

he owner of a historic block of Gore buildings says he’s not sure if he’ll take up the city on its offer of $1.1 million in grants to save as much of the buildings as possible.

David Blanchard, a principle in the Hughson Business Space Corporation, has a demolition permit for 18-28 King St. E., which overlooks Gore Park.

On Wednesday, city councillors gave conditional approval for $1.1 million in grants if Blanchard designates the buildings, built in the 1870s, as heritage properties.

Blanchard isn’t sure whether his group will take the city up on that.

“The only part (of the buildings) that will be maintained, if it is maintained, is the facades,” he told CBC Hamilton. “The rest of the building is crumbling.”

As for the grants, they don’t come close to being enough money to save the buildings, he said. The group is still short “at least $1 million.”

Getting the grants would also mean getting the properties designated under the Ontario Heritage Act, which adds a whole new set of conditions.

“We have to be assured we won't get burned," he said.

The block garnered intense interest this year when Blanchard announced plans to tear down the buildings and build condos and retail space.

There was public outcry, and city councillors Jason Farr and Brian McHattie intervened, trying to persuade Blanchard's group to at least save the facades. The city has been meeting with the group since January, said Glen Norton, manager of urban renewal.

Wednesday’s conditional approval was to ensure Blanchard’s group that the city will OK the money if they designate the properties, said Farr, who represents the downtown.

Once the buildings are designated, the developers would work with the city to see what could be maintained, he said.

“Now we can look at how we can make $1.1 million work toward achieving what a lot of people want, which is preserving as much of the buildings as they can,” Farr said.

The first grant, worth $850,000, is available under the Hamilton Heritage Property Investment Grant Program, which is for buildings designated under the heritage act that have had preservation/conservation/stability work.

If the buildings aren’t demolished, the developers will also be eligible for $250,000 under the Gore Building Improvement Grant program.

Blanchard said his group is looking for more financial incentives. The demolition permit expires in July, and each day the buildings sit there, it costs him money.

As it stands, he said, the buildings are in such poor shape that “we have nothing to attach to the façade right now.”

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...ings-1.2451410

[coalminecanary]

Oct 26, 2012:

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

Sounds like they are after some money. Start the bidding at 10 million and see what those buildings are worth to us!

Real nice.

Let the games begin...

[oldcoote]

What a sham.

[thistleclub]

Via @SamCraggsCBC:

Well then. Farr just got rules waived to introduce designating Gore buildings tonight. Bratina broke a tie to allow it #HamOnt

In other words, 7 of 14 councillors didn't want Farr to be able to introduce his Gore buildings motion. Mayor broke tie in favour

Gore demolition permit expires in less than a month, Farr says. He's not encouraged owner won't just demolish the buildings

Farr says after numerous meetings, he still has no assurance about saving Gore buildings. & still seems to be no solid plan in place

Seems to be a lot of fear 18-28 King E will be demolished & turned into a parking lot, creating a blight in the Gore, esp during Pan Am

If council votes in favour of this, the demolition permits for 18-28 King E would be null & void. This would stop the Gore demolition

Some have reservations about notion of suddenly designating a property heritage at the council table. But seems to be support for motion

If Gore buildings designated, owner would have to restore what's there by getting rid of fencing & fixing bottom of facades

And most importantly:

Council just voted to STOP the demolition of 18-28 King St E in the Gore. Buildings have been designated heritage #HamOnt