Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[Comrade]

If they can make it look like some of the parking garages I posted a couple months ago, it won't be all bad.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by DCRes

In you opinion, what could they have done differently with the design to get people to meander down main street more? I figure this will get people to main street, then it is main streets job to attract people to walk down it. The PAC design is very open, has plenty of doors on main, and I think will have an eatery in it. Getting people downtown is half the battle, hopefully people will come early and eat dinner somewhere downtown then walk on over to the show, then maybe walk for dessert or a drink afterwords.

The location was flawed from the beginning. Because Regent street, the block is not deep enough to fit a theater that is set back behind retail space large enough to be viable. Main Street could use more viable retail space, not an empty theater lobby that will only be in use a dozen or so times a year. A continuous urban fabric with Retail and window displays will encourage people to meander further down Main Street. But the theater in this particular location takes up way too much frontage on Main Street. The theater's hours of operation in no way justify that much frontage. Walking past the theater will be the equivalent of walking by four or five standard sized retail stores in a shopping center. Durring business hours, this space which could have been used for more active uses, will be a dead zone... unless there is a matinée. Everyone knows, or should know by now, that I think the Zion's Bank parking lot and Kearns building parking ramp would have been a far superior place to build the theater. This location would have provided the option of physically connecting all three theaters together on the same block. I don't think the city did enough negotiating with Mr. Anderson. I think if they had, the city (and county considering the proximity to the Salt Palace) would be getting a better deal.

[SLC Projects]

There's no way Boyer needs that much parking for both 101 and 102. More buildings must be in their long term plans.

[SLC Projects]

Or I should say building, not tower.

Ok reading this from the Trib. just makes me want to go......

"Parr Brown Gee and Loveless, a Salt Lake City law firm with 70 attorneys, has agreed to lease the fifth, sixth and seventh floors. Parr today is at 185 S. State Street.

Tenants haven’t been lined up for the rest of the space, but Pace said Boyer has received "a lot of interest" from financial firms and law firms.

"We think there’s a significant amount of demand," he said.

Hampton Partners needs to read this story. So what's the hold up on the PAC tower? There's significant amount of demand. ( something that I've been saying all this time ) Boyer has already least out almost HALF of the building with just a single law firms. Just built the damn thing already. If nothing else you'll have a line of law firms and financial firms filling up the PAC tower and I'm ok with that. Sure a 20+ story building takes longer to fill up, but if you ( HP ) or anybody else who talks about wanting to built a office highrise in downtown continue to sit on the sideline, then we are going to see more and more of these companies moving into smaller buildings, since smaller buildings are the only office space being built. Willing to bet if the PAC tower gets built along with the rest of the theater it will fill up a year or two after it opens. ( Just like 222 South Main ) There is no reason for HP to wait til 2016 or later to START building something that is needed NOW!

HP, get your butts in gear. what are you waiting for?.........the 2nd coming? If HP doesn't want to play ball then another developer needs to step in. ( Tower 8 ) Developers shouldn't be waiting in line or waiting for the other guy to blink first, they should be racing to get a tower built before the other guy does. Seems like a no brainier from a business stand point. Time is money. Don't act, you lose. Drives me crazy.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Old&New

It's pretty sleek, but it still looks like a wasteland to me, exactly what I was afraid of. If any of you think this will encourage foot traffic to meander down Main Street you're fooling yourself. I guess our only hope now lies in the potential for retail development on the other side of Main Street.

So what exactly do you propose instead? What could possibly be done to make it more attractive to walk down? A theater is a theater. It's only going to be used a certain number of times per year, period. The theater itself is a destination. Maybe it will only encourage foot traffic a certain number of times per year, but when there are major events there, people are going to come to it. Maybe they'll just drive in, attend the event, and leave, but the majority of people are always going to do so. Bottom line, it will still likely bring people to downtown that otherwise may not come all that often, if at all. No single thing, with the exception of possibly a Jazz game (and only really before the game, rarely after when most things will already be closed), or a major shopping center like City Creek, is going to "encourage foot traffic" - it has to be a collective effort from a number of different establishments.

I love Salt Lake and I think they're making great progress. I just think so many people here are fooling themselves by expecting Salt Lake City to be some sort of vibrant major city. Just be patient and realize that Salt Lake, in the grand scheme of things, is still a mid-sized city at best. There's nothing wrong with that, I just wish people would stop trying to pretend that Salt Lake is something more than that, or will be any time in the near future. So much has already been done in the last decade.

[Makid]

Projects,

I am pretty sure that HP is going to be building the PAC tower the same time as the theater is being built.

As the theater and the PAC share lobby space, the foundation work for the tower will take place at the same time as the foundation work for the theater.

Now, 222 still has 3 floors that are open. That is roughly a 13.6% vacancy rate. While not bad, that is roughly average for class A office space in the downtown area currently. My understanding is that a vacancy rate of 10% or less is a trigger point for new highrise tower construction.

I do think that HP will be building the PAC Tower, it is designed and planned, the theater architects were working with the architects for the tower to try to create a synergistic development.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Old&New

Main Street could use more viable retail space, not an empty theater lobby that will only be in use a dozen or so times a year.

...Touring Broadway productions are projected to fill up 10 weeks of scheduling, plus one three-week span of a "blockbuster" every other year for a total of 135 "venue days." The remaining dates, according to the city's study, would be filled by holiday productions, nonprofit events, commercial promoters, opera, ballet and symphony performances...

...The Salt Lake Tribune


Respectfully Old&New, I understand your pissed that they didn't put the theater where you wanted it. However, your asserted dismissal regarding usage and subsequent foot traffic is pretty inaccurate. Given Salt Lake Metro's above average penchant for live theater, extended stay productions, plus many other misc uses add up to a very large total number of days. Those days each represent a deluge of hundred's of people at a given time on Main. You don't think that the many old and new retailers and restaurants on Main and vicinity are not excited about these Holiday-like prospects?!

Not just the greater CSA will be descending on Downtown for these major extended productions, which includes many daily matinees. But there will be thousands who make the treck from Southeastern Idaho, Western Wyoming and Eastern Nevada. Suddenly, Salt Lake City is not only a major regional destination for LDS faithful, but for the massive ski tourism numbers, and those who love major Broadway Productions. Many major productions will be scheduled around events, such as Sundance, the OR Convention, etc. The demand for overnight accomodations downtown will increase substantially.

How often have many of us just given up on being able to get a decent seat at the Capitol for Broadway Productions, or The Nutcracker or even Manheim Steamroller? The demand has been too high and the days too limited in number. And it isn't just that the Capitol is too constrained and limiting for major extended stay touring productions. The UPAC will free up flexibility with venues like The Capitol, enabling them to add additional days to popular concert series. There are many series that prefer the Capitol's size and would like to stay longer or just be able to book it but can't, because of scheduling demands that are too tight.

The day in, day out numbers during these multi-week events at the UPAC are like a substantial convention, or a Mini-Christmas, an
extended Mini-General Conference, or an extended mini Jazz Game. The foot traffic numbers all add up to major bottom line dollars for Downtown Salt Lake. This Theater will be a GAME CHANGER, not only for Main Street foot traffic, but for Regent, CCC and much of Downtown visits and foot traffic.

Given the recent addition of the World Class CCC, this new Mega-Theater is the perfect synergistic neighbor on Main.

I look forward to the day that they start adding apartment mid to highrise towers on Main. I agree with all of you who have pointed out the need for more residential. Seriously though, for now, this UPAC addition is a Godsend for the many surviving and new businesses on Main.

[Sight-Seer]

Salt Lake has a lot of vacant lots / parking lots. Building small office buildings there isn't so bad, because there will come a time when the available land is gone and buildings will be forced to become taller. At the rate things are going, that isn't so far in the future. I wonder what the LDS church is planning to do with all the vacant blocks on South Temple.

[Makid]

The empty lot will be used for expanding BYU Salt Lake and student housing. At least that was the last I heard. But I wouldn't expect anything for at least another 10 years or so as they aren't in a rush to build as they still have space where they currently are.

[delts145]

A question for those in the know? As Comrade and others have suggested, I also would prefer to see some elegant "STEEL" frame apartment towers rise in downtown. How do the numbers pencil out for high rise apartments in the Salt Lake market? It would seem the demand is definately there. What would the rental per unit numbers have to be per month? Are the dollars in line with construction cost demands of a non-stick tower?

Say a building with a generous number of Studios and One Bedrooms, with the right mix of Two Bedroom units.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Sight-Seer

Salt Lake has a lot of vacant lots / parking lots. Building small office buildings there isn't so bad, because there will come a time when the available land is gone and buildings will be forced to become taller. At the rate things are going, that isn't so far in the future. I wonder what the LDS church is planning to do with all the vacant blocks on South Temple.

I agree with you Sight-Seer, especially regarding that Boyer office building. It was only recently that most of us were very happy to have mid-rise infill on vacant lots. Now that Salt Lake is adding scores of mid-rises to it's CBD, some are bored and moving on to new hyper preoccupation. New suggestions and preoccupations are great, but let's not completely abandon a greatful nod to our recent preoccupations of more mid-rise infill.

Also, while I agree the building is an 80's type style, it's still quite nice. I know, perhaps many citizen's tastes are not considered as sophisticated as we urban geeks, but I'll take an attractive 80's over an unattractive new model style any day. Especially, the over-used Southwestern Stucco variety. Face it, many still prefer that 80's style. Hey, some even still will choose a pale yellow/orange brick, with white stone accents. It might not be our taste, but it's a free country.

[scottharding]

Originally Posted by delts145

A question for those in the know? As Comrade and others have suggested, I also would prefer to see some elegant "STEEL" frame apartment towers rise in downtown. How do the numbers pencil out for high rise apartments in the Salt Lake market? It would seem the demand is definately there. What would the rental per unit numbers have to be per month? Are the dollars in line with construction cost demands of a non-stick tower?

Say a building with a generous number of Studios and One Bedrooms, with the right mix of Two Bedroom units.

By way of indication, I can tell you this, Delts. My lady and I just looked into the Lotus, which will soon offer 1 and 2 bedroom units (some of the 2 bdrms have to bathrooms). Their luxury apartments, so we would have been paying a few hundred dollars more than we already are. But the building is pretty much leased out. At least, all the two bedroom units are leased. And the building is still a few months from being done. Seems to me that the demand for apartments downtown remains pretty high.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by delts145

...Touring Broadway productions are projected to fill up 10 weeks of scheduling, plus one three-week span of a "blockbuster" every other year for a total of 135 "venue days." The remaining dates, according to the city's study, would be filled by holiday productions, nonprofit events, commercial promoters, opera, ballet and symphony performances...

...The Salt Lake Tribune


Respectfully Old&New, I understand your pissed that they didn't put the theater where you wanted it. However, your asserted dismissal regarding usage and subsequent foot traffic is pretty inaccurate. Given Salt Lake Metro's above average penchant for live theater, extended stay productions, plus many other misc uses add up to a very large total number of days. Those days each represent a deluge of hundred's of people at a given time on Main. You don't think that the many old and new retailers and restaurants on Main and vicinity are not excited about these Holiday-like prospects?!

Not just the greater CSA will be descending on Downtown for these major extended productions, which includes many daily matinees. But there will be thousands who make the treck from Southeastern Idaho, Western Wyoming and Eastern Nevada. Suddenly, Salt Lake City is not only a major regional destination for LDS faithful, but for the massive ski tourism numbers, and those who love major Broadway Productions. Many major productions will be scheduled around events, such as Sundance, the OR Convention, etc. The demand for overnight accomodations downtown will increase substantially.

How often have many of us just given up on being able to get a decent seat at the Capitol for Broadway Productions, or The Nutcracker or even Manheim Steamroller? The demand has been too high and the days too limited in number. And it isn't just that the Capitol is too constrained and limiting for major extended stay touring productions. The UPAC will free up flexibility with venues like The Capitol, enabling them to add additional days to popular concert series. There are many series that prefer the Capitol's size and would like to stay longer or just be able to book it but can't, because of scheduling demands that are too tight.

The day in, day out numbers during these multi-week events at the UPAC are like a substantial convention, or a Mini-Christmas, an
extended Mini-General Conference, or an extended mini Jazz Game. The foot traffic numbers all add up to major bottom line dollars for Downtown Salt Lake. This Theater will be a GAME CHANGER, not only for Main Street foot traffic, but for Regent, CCC and much of Downtown visits and foot traffic.

Given the recent addition of the World Class CCC, this new Mega-Theater is the perfect synergistic neighbor on Main.

I look forward to the day that they start adding apartment mid to highrise towers on Main. I agree with all of you who have pointed out the need for more residential. Seriously though, for now, this UPAC addition is a Godsend for the many surviving and new businesses on Main.

Yes, I already established that I'm disappointed with the location. Of course all of those great things you said about the theater could have also been said if the theater were across the street and off of Main Street. Although the difference with the location across the street is that it would have been better for historical preservation along main street, and better at leaving the opportunity for the existing buildings to find new uses (including retail). Additionally, Regent Street would have been better off without the theater choking it's potential to extend the retail experience from CCC down to the Gallivan Center.

[StevenF]

Originally Posted by scottharding

By way of indication, I can tell you this, Delts. My lady and I just looked into the Lotus, which will soon offer 1 and 2 bedroom units (some of the 2 bdrms have to bathrooms). Their luxury apartments, so we would have been paying a few hundred dollars more than we already are. But the building is pretty much leased out. At least, all the two bedroom units are leased. And the building is still a few months from being done. Seems to me that the demand for apartments downtown remains pretty high.

Its not just downtown that the demand for urban style apartments are high. The Birkhill apartments in Murray at the 4500 S TRAX station have already leased out all of their 2 and 3 bedroom units, the only thing they have left are the 1 bedroom units.

To me that tells you that even people with families desire mass transit/urban living.

Originally Posted by delts145

Say a building with a generous number of Studios and One Bedrooms, with the right mix of Two Bedroom units.

Where is my 3 bedroom in your numbers?

Originally Posted by Makid

The empty lot will be used for expanding BYU Salt Lake and student housing. At least that was the last I heard. But I wouldn't expect anything for at least another 10 years or so as they aren't in a rush to build as they still have space where they currently are.

I will agree with the 10 years out thought since I think the LDS Church education is focusing on developing BYUI and to a smaller extent BYU Hawaii. I think once BYUI hits the 20,000-25,000 student mark BYU Salt Lake will get the funding for expansion. The current growth of BYUI is about 1000 students a year so that will give it 5-10 years to hit those population numbers.

[Twothirty8]

I've been living in Berlin for the past 3 months and every Tuesday I go to their performance arts center for a free concert! I would say about 800 people on average attend! The musicians are world class and its an intimate experience. I would love to see the PAC do the same once a week and it would draw crowds. Also, isn't there an indoor cafe planned for the Main Street side? Or is that just Regent?

[delts145]

I agree guys that there's demand, and I really appreciate your updates based on what your experiencing. I was also curious about highrise apartment towers in particular. Say of the same height as 99 West. Taking into account the extra cost of going over the mid-rise height, would the cost that a developer has to charge for rental per unit be in demand in Downtown SLC?

[sock puppet]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

There's no way Boyer needs that much parking for both 101 and 102. More buildings must be in their long term plans.

I was informed by someone "in the know" that there would be another Boyer building just south of 102 on 200 East and one on State. That's what all the parking is about.

[StevenF]

Went downtown today and went to the gateway. I swung by the Liberty at Gateway. the south half is already at 5 floors and the North section they have the foundation completed and starting on the floor joists. I have to say I am not impresses with It at all with the 2 set backs. I can only hope the finishing touches of the facad will be well done, but I am not holding my breath.

I also stopped by Bruges on 3rd south that my wife and I ran into a few weeks ago. Them waffles are mmmmmmmmmm.

[SLC Projects]

Drove pass the future 101 tower ( building ) site and the work there is well under way. Crews are tearing out the old parking lot and there's already a big hole on the far north end. I have mix feelings about this building mainly that it's going to take away the demand that is needed to get the PAC tower development up and going.

[scottharding]

Originally Posted by StevenF

Went downtown today and went to the gateway. I swung by the Liberty at Gateway. the south half is already at 5 floors and the North section they have the foundation completed and starting on the floor joists. I have to say I am not impresses with It at all with the 2 set backs. I can only hope the finishing touches of the facad will be well done, but I am not holding my breath.

I also stopped by Bruges on 3rd south that my wife and I ran into a few weeks ago. Them waffles are mmmmmmmmmm.

Bruges is a revelation. I love that place.