Calgary Public Transit II

[MalcolmTucker]

Great initiative. I think there is great potential for future city wide ballot initiatives for specific projects.

[5seconds]

Is there any recent precedent for the Province directly funding a public transit initiative in Calgary outside of more structured programs like GreenTrip?

I'm wondering if it would be unheard of for the Province to fund the SW BRT as a kind of consolation for the SW ring road not progressing at the moment.

[MalcolmTucker]

I don't think the projects meet the same need. SW BRT is needed due to capacity constraints in the core with LRT and no 4 or 5 car LRT.

[5seconds]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

I don't think the projects meet the same need. SW BRT is needed due to capacity constraints in the core with LRT and no 4 or 5 car LRT.

I don't disagree! Politics can be a funny thing, and I was just curious about how/if other individual transit projects had been funded by the Province

[MalcolmTucker]

if other individual transit projects had been funded by the Province

Not really. There isn't much history in this. Some of the transit 'grants' have been in very roundabout ways. In the late 70s the province forgave all municipal debt for example.

[5seconds]

Good to know, thanks!

[suburbia]

Edmonton also eying a gondola:
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/technolog...ley+downtown+proposed/8236695/story.html

[Aegis]

Is Erlton Station already 4-car compliant? I didn't see it on the list of stations under construction.

http://www.calgarytransit.com/html/lrt_platform_construction.html

[mersar]

Originally Posted by Aegis

Is Erlton Station already 4-car compliant? I didn't see it on the list of stations under construction.

http://www.calgarytransit.com/html/lrt_platform_construction.html

Yep, it was renovated last year I believe.

[Spring2008]

Originally Posted by suburbia

It is actually quite a fair comment. I've always been one to be absolutely willing to pay for the services I receive. For those interested in expanded transit, it would sure be helpful if slightly more of the burden would be picked up by yourselves, who get such great service. Perhaps those in the core and at ToDs could be charged an extra levy?

This makes absolutely no sense at all since most of the TOD's will be located close to the core, and thus on average be shorter commute trips. You could charge more downtown, in relation to how far the trip will be.

I think it's time to look at a zone system of increasing prices depending on distance traveled outside of the core area like Vancouver's Skytrain.


http://www.translink.ca/en/Fares-and-Passes/Fare-Zone-Map.aspx

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Spring2008

This makes absolutely no sense at all since most of the TOD's will be located close to the core, and thus on average be shorter commute trips. You could charge more downtown, in relation to how far the trip will be.

I think it's time to look at a zone system of increasing prices depending on distance traveled outside of the core area like Vancouver's Skytrain.


http://www.translink.ca/en/Fares-and-Passes/Fare-Zone-Map.aspx

Sure - that can work also. I've stated more than once that the SE-LRT should be considered a commuter line and thus having a commuter fair, particularly given its low riders per kilometer ratio.

[andasen]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Sure - that can work also. I've stated more than once that the SE-LRT should be considered a commuter line and thus having a commuter fair, particularly given its low riders per kilometer ratio.

I'm not sure if that could be practically implemented solely on the SE line without the S line as well, especially for the park and ride users. The S line is just close enough that it provides a viable alternative corridor that trying to open a relief line in the southeast that cost more would simply keep keep a lot of the traffic stuck on the S line.

Assuming that we will inevitably get a functioning connect card system. Distance based costing will be a less arbitrary especially in a city like ours with less obvious boundaries than metro Vancouver. If you travel the equivalent distance of the proposed 194th station to the core you automatically get bumped up to the commuter pay scale or something like that.

[MalcolmTucker]

The thing is distance on the LRT is not a function of cost. The cost driver is feeder buses, which cost the same no matter whether you take one to feed to Banff Trail or to Tuscany. So you have to be careful.

Since the economic objective is to get people off the road during times of congestion at critical choke points, it does not matter where that person is from, or even how many km they travelled to get to the choke point.

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by Spring2008

This makes absolutely no sense at all since most of the TOD's will be located close to the core, and thus on average be shorter commute trips. You could charge more downtown, in relation to how far the trip will be.

I think it's time to look at a zone system of increasing prices depending on distance traveled outside of the core area like Vancouver's Skytrain.


http://www.translink.ca/en/Fares-and-Passes/Fare-Zone-Map.aspx

Almost nobody in North America uses fare zones; Translink and Seattle are the only two non-commuter (or pseudo-commuter, like BART and PATCO) systems that use fare zones.

Fare zones are tough. One thing they do is add in a cost to the user in terms of understanding what you need to pay; as the system moves over to a smart card, this is a little less of a cost because at least you don't need a different amount of exact change depending on destination. You also impose a cost in terms of monitoring both boarding and departure; for smart cards, this means tap-on/tap-off. On buses, drivers need to monitor who has paid what and gotten on where, I assume.

But the real question is what is the point of fare zones? (Other than to feel all grown-up and big city, which seems to be the most common argument.) Or better yet, what is the point of transit and of fares?

If the goal is to maximize revenue, then long-distance commutes to the downtown on the LRT should have the highest fares. If the goal is to reduce greenhouse gases and traffic congestion, then long-distance peak hour commutes to the downtown on the LRT should have the lowest fares. If the goal is to use the system the most efficiently, then long-distance commutes to the downtown on the LRT should have low fares in the offpeak and high fares in the peak, and feeder buses should have lower fares. If the goal is to price the system according to cost, then the LRT should have the lowest fare in the peak, and feeder buses should have higher fares.

So what is the proposed problem with the system that is worth the cost of implementing fare zones? And how will fare zones solve it?

[MasterG]

One thing that the system would benefit from is better transit etiquette and a few minor changes to operations. The amount of times that someone holds a door / refuses to leave a door they can't fit in from the crowd/ won't move away from the door when they get on or to the door before arriving at the stop is unbelievable.

I get it, everyone wants to be nice to the pretty girl in heels that has missed the train by holding the door as she scurries down the platform. But this ain't namby-pamby tea time at Nanny McPhee's, its a train for godsakes.

This is about getting thousands of people to where they need to go as fast and efficiently as possible. We are on our way to becoming a big city, lets act like it.

[floobie]

Originally Posted by MasterG

One thing that the system would benefit from is better transit etiquette and a few minor changes to operations. The amount of times that someone holds a door / refuses to leave a door they can't fit in from the crowd/ won't move away from the door when they get on or to the door before arriving at the stop is unbelievable.

I get it, everyone wants to be nice to the pretty girl in heels that has missed the train by holding the door as she scurries down the platform. But this ain't namby-pamby tea time at Nanny McPhee's, its a train for godsakes.

This is about getting thousands of people to where they need to go as fast and efficiently as possible. We are on our way to becoming a big city, lets act like it.

The passenger operated doors shouldn't exist. When a train stops, all doors should open, and close after a fixed amount of time. The closing should be aggressive enough to prevent people from squeezing in or holding them open, but not so aggressive that idiots gets stuck.

[mersar]

A lot of the glass on the lower half of Tuscany Station is now in place. And boy, does it make the station look skinny when you're approaching it going west on Crowchild. Tracks are mostly all laid and graveled, though not tamped yet (probably waiting for spring to do that)

[Riise]

Originally Posted by floobie

the passenger operated doors shouldn't exist. When a train stops, all doors should open, and close after a fixed amount of time. The closing should be aggressive enough to prevent people from squeezing in or holding them open, but not so aggressive that idiots gets stuck.

+1

[DizzyEdge]

It appears that google maps no longer has calgary transit info.
Not sure if this is permanent or temporary, people who have tweeted Calgary transit have simply been told to use the trip planner.

Nevermind, they say they hope it will be fixed by the end of the day

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by floobie

The passenger operated doors shouldn't exist. When a train stops, all doors should open, and close after a fixed amount of time. The closing should be aggressive enough to prevent people from squeezing in or holding them open, but not so aggressive that idiots gets stuck.

Absolutely agree. Also remove all the bars in the middle of the doorways that impede people leaving and entering faster.

They should make it a goal to be able to exist/load any station downtown station within 15 secs, from stopping to moving again. Other cities can do it, so should we.

They should also put markings on the station platform where people exit straight out, while people waiting to enter line the sides. Montreal has them and it would be great to give people direction of how to board and unboard efficiently. After a few years the behaviour would be internalized but people need the help right now to understand how to use a train.