Winnipeg: Dugald Rd. - Plessis Rd. Interchange

[alittle1]

Maybe its official, maybe not. Today there was a ceremony taking place at the North-East corner in front of the Transcona BIZ welcome wall. Didn't have time to stop to investigate as to all the hellabaloo, I'm sure I saw Russ's dome outstanding in the crowd. Couldn't tell if he was kissing babies or not.

Let's see it happen, I for one am tired of waiting for endless trains making their slow crossing over Plessis, on the journey across Canada with the China sea-cans lagging behind old surplus U S locomotives that CN allowed Canada to have.

If its a go, expect 4 - 5 years of mud, seat and jeers from the folk that use that roadway on their quest into the City that Sam mortgaged to the hilt. Dig deep people, until it hurts.

Its official.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...160397175.html

[armorand93]

Shouldn't this be in a constructional thread?

[alittle1]

Originally Posted by armorand93

Shouldn't this be in a constructional thread?

Is that constructive criticism? First, you have to have construction, this is still the talking portion.

[Techman224]

I don't even think we have any design plans on it yet, let alone any construction.

[Biff]

I posted this in the Chief Peguis Trail tread, now it goes here i guess....


The Plessis Rd underpass is farther along than most people realize. The RFP for Functional Design closed in May.

[Bluenote]

I find it so odd they can build this here and yet cannot build a proper interchange at Dugald and the Perimeter HWY where you deal with Dugald and the Rail Lines. Shouldn't we finish this first?

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

I find it so odd they can build this here and yet cannot build a proper interchange at Dugald and the Perimeter HWY where you deal with Dugald and the Rail Lines. Shouldn't we finish this first?

You can say that for every other intersection on the Perimeter Highway, and then they raise a red flag and say "oh no no no no no! That's way too expensive!"

Having said that, you can say the same thing to our Inner Ring network via the transportation master plan.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

I find it so odd they can build this here and yet cannot build a proper interchange at Dugald and the Perimeter HWY where you deal with Dugald and the Rail Lines. Shouldn't we finish this first?

Dugald and the Perimeter HWY is a strange location for cost sharing.

It's both an intersection to 2 major highways and is also on the dividing line of Winnipeg and the RM of Springfield.

To build this one I don't know if it would be all Highways dept money or if both the City and RM would have to chip in as well. CN would probably also be involved as I am sure their main line would be impacted.

It only takes one of the parties above to say no we can't afford it and nothing gets done.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by cllew

Dugald and the Perimeter HWY is a strange location for cost sharing.

It's both an intersection to 2 major highways and is also on the dividing line of Winnipeg and the RM of Springfield.

To build this one I don't know if it would be all Highways dept money or if both the City and RM would have to chip in as well. CN would probably also be involved as I am sure their main line would be impacted.

It only takes one of the parties above to say no we can't afford it and nothing gets done.

I do not believe the RM's have any input to the Perimeter HWY, if it were on the other side of the floodway, maybe. But this was suppose to be done 3 years ago, thus why we had a detour, which is still their in place to they could build an over pass. The Rail line is the same Rail line that would be impacted at the Plessis/Dugald junction.

I just see all the growth in the newer transcona industrial section on the east side and the houseing growth and wonder why they think Plessis needs it. Ah well not like anything makes sense in this city when it comes to roads.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

I do not believe the RM's have any input to the Perimeter HWY, if it were on the other side of the floodway, maybe. But this was suppose to be done 3 years ago, thus why we had a detour, which is still their in place to they could build an over pass. The Rail line is the same Rail line that would be impacted at the Plessis/Dugald junction.

I just see all the growth in the newer transcona industrial section on the east side and the houseing growth and wonder why they think Plessis needs it. Ah well not like anything makes sense in this city when it comes to roads.

The Plessis underpass is part of the grand plan to link up the Chief Pegius trail to the south east part of Winnipeg via the still to be built Edward Schreyer Parkway, then connecting on to Regent Ave and Plessis south.

I wonder if we will ever see in our lifetime something done with the CP mainline crossing at Plessis Rd and Gunn RD. The only good thing with this mainline crossing is they are not slowing down to rail yard speeds like I see happen on the CN crossing to the south.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by cllew

The Plessis underpass is part of the grand plan to link up the Chief Pegius trail to the south east part of Winnipeg via the still to be built Edward Schreyer Parkway, then connecting on to Regent Ave and Plessis south.

I wonder if we will ever see in our lifetime something done with the CP mainline crossing at Plessis Rd and Gunn RD. The only good thing with this mainline crossing is they are not slowing down to rail yard speeds like I see happen on the CN crossing to the south.

Ya I saw their GRAND PLAN of the inner ring road that eventually mates with Bishop, but at the hyper Warp speed the city works at, it may take 100 plus years. But I can see it now, every two blocks a set of lights, just like Bishop is now, and we will fill it all in with Big box retail lol.

[alittle1]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

I do not believe the RM's have any input to the Perimeter HWY, if it were on the other side of the floodway, maybe. But this was suppose to be done 3 years ago, thus why we had a detour, which is still their in place to they could build an over pass. The Rail line is the same Rail line that would be impacted at the Plessis/Dugald junction.

I just see all the growth in the newer transcona industrial section on the east side and the houseing growth and wonder why they think Plessis needs it. Ah well not like anything makes sense in this city when it comes to roads.

Bluenote, nice to see a new face and opinion.

Just for your information,the dividing line between Spgringfield and COW is:

W/s Murdock Rd. is CoW, E/s Springfld. N/s Dugald is CoW (Cargill elevator), S/s Dugald is Sprgfld. W/s Ravenhurst is CoW, E/s is Sprngfld (HiQual Mfg.).
Up to the bungalow on the east side of the road and then dividing lines goes East to the Perimeter Hwy.

The intersection of PTH 15 and the Perimeter is all Springfield. The Railway and Springfield played no part in the re-construction, it was all the Provence of Manitoba.

IF the Plessis and Dugald interchange is ever built, watch the stupidity that follows when they try to join Dugald Rd. east to the Perimeter. Pure bullocks!

[Spocket]

I'm sorry , maybe I missed it but where was there any talk of an interchange ?
It seems to be a simple overpass and nothing more .
I apologize if I missed something .

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Spocket

I'm sorry , maybe I missed it but where was there any talk of an interchange ?
It seems to be a simple overpass and nothing more .
I apologize if I missed something .

No, you didn't miss anything. They haven't mentioned an interchange at all. The plan is to grade separate the railway from Plessis and somehow connect Dugald to it on the other side with a signalized intersection. Dugald will either have to be sunken to be able to meet up with Plessis or the south side of the underpass will be very steep to make the connection roughly 450 ft away.

Just for comparison, the Sterling Lyon/Kenaston intersection is approx 2,200 ft away. Main St and Higgins is approx 300 ft away.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by Biff

No, you didn't miss anything. They haven't mentioned an interchange at all. The plan is to grade separate the railway from Plessis and somehow connect Dugald to it on the other side with a signalized intersection. Dugald will either have to be sunken to be able to meet up with Plessis or the south side of the underpass will be very steep to make the connection roughly 450 ft away.

Just for comparison, the Sterling Lyon/Kenaston intersection is approx 2,200 ft away. Main St and Higgins is approx 300 ft away.

My understanding is that Dugald would be sunken.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Biff

No, you didn't miss anything. They haven't mentioned an interchange at all. The plan is to grade separate the railway from Plessis and somehow connect Dugald to it on the other side with a signalized intersection. Dugald will either have to be sunken to be able to meet up with Plessis or the south side of the underpass will be very steep to make the connection roughly 450 ft away.

Just for comparison, the Sterling Lyon/Kenaston intersection is approx 2,200 ft away. Main St and Higgins is approx 300 ft away.

It should be easy enough since a simple reallignment of Dugald will do the trick .

[alittle1]

Originally Posted by Spocket

It should be easy enough since a simple reallignment of Dugald will do the trick .

Define simple?

You have Bernie Wolfe on the S/W corner, Al Golden on the S/E, and 99 feet of right-a-way. IMO, not going to happen, unless someone dies. If my spies are correct, Golden almost did that when he found out Katz was across the street at the ceremony. Was it a stroke of luck on Al's part?

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by alittle1

Define simple?

Simple the same way it always is : If all else fails , expropriate the land .
Obviously there won't be an interchange there if expropriation is out of the question . Or they can simply put an overpass over Dugald entirely but that would seem to defeat the purpose so I don't know how viable that option is .
In either case , these things get done all the time so if it's impossible I guess this thread should be closed .

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by Bdog

My understanding is that Dugald would be sunken.

Eeeek, in an Area plagued with flooding. This will just look like Keewatin in a large rain storm then.


But on a serious note, if the CITY had any for sight then they would never have left that little hamlet of houses built on the north side of the track, if they had left that scrub land, they could have just moved the track and maybe they would have had enough room, unless they plan on taking Plessis under the tracks of over, and have Dugald chum up with the tracks , this way they could make one and they would only have to boot the old CDN Tire warehouse and the few other business around there.

[alittle1]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Eeeek, in an Area plagued with flooding. This will just look like Keewatin in a large rain storm then.


But on a serious note, if the CITY had any for sight then they would never have left that little hamlet of houses built on the north side of the track, if they had left that scrub land, they could have just moved the track and maybe they would have had enough room, unless they plan on taking Plessis under the tracks of over, and have Dugald chum up with the tracks , this way they could make one and they would only have to boot the old CDN Tire warehouse and the few other business around there.

Bluenote:

This is a section that I wrote May 13th in another thread, perhaps it will explain some of the problems and solutions for the area.

Quote: Let's throw this little tidbit into the mix and see if you super-sleuths can figure out the connection.

There was a developer who wanted to bring a large property 'on-stream' in South Transcona, but was told S. Trans had a drainage problem. He went about and developed plan that made water storage lakes (with aeration and nice lake side building lots. The City says, 'we can't afford this'. The developer says, If you allow me to develop my properties, dedicate the two or three cross streets to allow my controlled lakes to cross, I will set aside green space for parks and public access, provide All City services and turn them over to the City upon completion, and it won't cost the City anything.

The City said , NO!

For the total development to work, a City-owned golf course had to be crossed, Plessis Rd. crossed with a culvert and a controlled water drainage right-a-way to the storm water retention pond in St. Boniface Industrial Park.

Why wasn't the development approved? Hint: This has to do with our subject thread. Unquote.

The area of South Transcona has always had a drainage problem, namely because it is flatter than pea on a plate. The land that the golf course sits on was old dairy property and hayland. The southside Dugald Road ditch was for land drainage and creek re-alignment when they cut off the creeks that went thru Transcona Town proper. The ditch at best, couldn't drain a mild downpour, let alone a winter snow fall. Even though the City put a land drainage pipe in the north ditch a couple of years back. No way would it have the capacity to drain this area on its own. The City has to use an water retention pond system and channel the water through a 10 foot oval culvert that they laid last year on the west side of Lage to Panet Rd. on its way to the Seine River.

If you read the other road threads, Marion - Goulet, Chief Pegus Trail, you can see it all comes full circle. Nothing can or will happen until the City conducts a proper study and starts with Step #1. realize that there should be no district boundaries. Just like they are amalgamating District 4 and 5 operating yards, so must they do with the street planning at the council level.