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  #2621  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 2:30 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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There is a story in the Chronicle Herald today regarding the location for a stadium - http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1231455.html
     
     
  #2622  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 2:57 PM
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Sounds like Lunn is more interested in Halifax hosting the U-20 than the world cup. His Victoria bias is starting to worry me.
     
     
  #2623  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
There is a story in the Chronicle Herald today regarding the location for a stadium - http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1231455.html
Fenwick I saw your comment on there, and now more than ever I suspect Bruce to be using multiple herald accounts including rob123.

This guy is pathetic and thinks that there is no appetite in HRM for a stadium.

It's too bad we couldn't find a way to deport him out of Nova Scotia.

of Nova Scotia, BD.

[/Rant]

Anyways it seems Dartmouth Crossing/Burnside seems to be the path of least resistance but we'll see. Hopefully the stadium commitee will come up with some other good options.

Last edited by q12; Mar 5, 2011 at 7:47 PM.
     
     
  #2624  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 7:52 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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I'm not surprised about Bruce's comments. He's posted lots of anti-stuff in the Save the View facebook site. But a couple of us pounced on them as soon as the first anti-stadium comments showed up. If I could figure out on facebook how to report the group, I'd suggest having it shut down.
     
     
  #2625  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 8:50 PM
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It seems that DC and Shannon Park are the 2 frontrunners for a potential site to build on. Personally I like DC. There is plenty of room to build out there and also there are a few restaurants (sports bar...Boston Pizza) already in the area. I think building at DC would be the path of least resistance and also be cheaper than trying to get this done at Shannon Park. Sure DC seems like it's stuck out of the way right now but as HRM continues to grow it won't always seem this way. For myself it would mean a longer travel to get to the stadium from Bridgewater but I'm ok with that as long as I have good access to the stadium. I'd rather have a longer drive but quick access in and out of the stadium as opposed to a shorter drive into Halifax and then get bogged down in traffic as people try to get into a stadium that is shoe horned into a site with limited access. DC offers lots of future potential.
     
     
  #2626  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 9:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MaritimeCFLFan View Post
It seems that DC and Shannon Park are the 2 frontrunners for a potential site to build on. Personally I like DC. There is plenty of room to build out there and also there are a few restaurants (sports bar...Boston Pizza) already in the area. I think building at DC would be the path of least resistance and also be cheaper than trying to get this done at Shannon Park. Sure DC seems like it's stuck out of the way right now but as HRM continues to grow it won't always seem this way. For myself it would mean a longer travel to get to the stadium from Bridgewater but I'm ok with that as long as I have good access to the stadium. I'd rather have a longer drive but quick access in and out of the stadium as opposed to a shorter drive into Halifax and then get bogged down in traffic as people try to get into a stadium that is shoe horned into a site with limited access. DC offers lots of future potential.
I don't think Shannon will fly, as soon as someone tries to build there the Migmaw are going to slap a stop work order on a project until their ownership interest is resolved.
     
     
  #2627  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 9:33 PM
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  #2628  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 9:44 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by q12 View Post
Fenwick I saw your comment on there, and now more than ever I suspect Bruce to be using multiple herald accounts including rob123.

This guy is pathetic and thinks that there is no appetite in HRM for a stadium.
Such people are depressing. I think if it were possible to prove that a stadium would make a profit, they would still oppose it.

Personally, I like the Dartmouth Crossings area better than Shannon Park since it has more restaurants and good highway access. My main concern is that people without cars might have a difficult time getting to either location from the Halifax side. If it were a location next to the MacDonald Bridge then I would like it much better (since there are so many buses crossing the MacDonald Bridge and people can walk across that bridge).

When I first moved to Toronto many years ago, I didn't have a car but even though I lived a few kilometers away, I could easily get to the old Exhibition Stadium to see a couple of Blue Jay games.
     
     
  #2629  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
Such people are depressing. I think if it were possible to prove that a stadium would make a profit, they would still oppose it.
One of these days when I have the time to kill (read: never), I should draft up a city plan of the supposedly 'ideal' Halifax. It'd be the Citadel surrounded by hospitals (all five stories or lower, of course) linked together by the most redundantly thorough road system on the planet.

Quote:
Personally, I like the Dartmouth Crossings area better than Shannon Park since it has more restaurants and good highway access. My main concern is that people without cars might have a difficult time getting to either location from the Halifax side. If it were a location next to the MacDonald Bridge then I would like it much better (since there are so many buses crossing the MacDonald Bridge and people can walk across that bridge).
To be fair, there's no reason why they couldn't set up extra shuttle bus connections between the Penninsula/DC for games/concerts. Or have more permanent routes linking the city to DC.
     
     
  #2630  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2011, 7:31 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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I finally had a chance to actually read the whole article that Fenwick posted from the Herald. I see that they mentioned your dream site Fenwick - unfortunately Mayor Kelly said it's out. I was lad to see they were thinking; but it sucks it got the thumbs down because you did a good sales job on me for it. Ahh to dream...

Any site can be improved if the access is limited and access to a stadium for people without a car can be setup with the larger fleet of slinky buses, ferry service or some combination of other modes (say a streetcar or eventually an LRT). I'm not worried where the thing ends up because I'm sure Metro Transit will set up something. If they are smart (and I think Fenwick, or someone else mentioned this before) - they will partner with who ever setups events or a team and buying a ticket will allow access to transit.
     
     
  #2631  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2011, 12:52 PM
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Finally an article in the the Herald with perspective.

"soccer may be worth $60 million"

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Opinion/1231675.html

Hopefully Bruce Devenne and people like him can read the whole article.

Roger Taylor had been doing some positve PR as well.
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  #2632  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2011, 1:28 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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When I read the article in yesterday's Chronicle Herald ( http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1231455.html ) it worried me that one location mentioned was out by the airport. Just imagine trying to shuttle thousands of people out to the airport from Halifax and Dartmouth. One thing that was mentioned in the article is that "you want a quick in and quick out" location. The locations being discussed will not fit this criteria for people taking public transit. It seems as though the people who are being left out are students, teenagers, elderly who don't drive, and everyone else who won't drive a car to the stadium.

I posted a map of current transit use. Although shuttles could be used, having shuttles going to a remote area will mean long trips and many more buses will be required. When budgets are being cut, these special shuttles will likely be cut or severely limited. I think a stadium should be located near the thickest transit lines on the map below. However, if Halifax residents are determined to put a stadium on the fringe of the city then I hope that it will have a large number of temporary seats. Then if the chosen site is found to be a poor location, Halifax won't be forced to use it for decades. Stadiums have been built in poor locations many times in other cities. I hope that people involved with selecting the stadium location will start phoning the planners of stadiums throughout North America to get opinions on the best location - central or on the fringe.

(source: http://www.halifax.ca/metrotransit/documents/5yearStrategicOperationsPlan.pdf )


I keep wondering why the Halifax Mainland Commons isn't being considered, especially since there seems to be good transit network already going to that area. And it isn't on the peninsula.

For people familiar with the Toronto area, Mississauga has a population of about 700,000 and is directly to the west of Toronto. However, even though Toronto has a major public transit system, getting from downtown Mississauga to downtown Toronto would take at least an hour. Trying to get there from other less direct (but heavily built-up areas) can easily take 1 1/2 hours, even during peak hours. This is one of the reasons why the Rogers Centre (Skydome) was put near the center of the GTA transit system instead of on the fringe. Even getting to the Roger Centre by car is easy since events don't coincide with rush hour traffic (sports events and concerts aren't held when people are at work - for example, on workdays, baseball games are held at night under the lights to get the most number of people to attend).

Although a football stadium has been stated to be a dead zone since it will only have 10 - 15 events per year, if this is the case then the stadium usage should be re-considered, and designed so that it will get more use. Regarding dead zones, Halifax has the Citadel Hill in the middle of the city which takes up far more space than a stadium would, and it still seems to be a vibrant city.

Last edited by fenwick16; Mar 6, 2011 at 1:51 PM.
     
     
  #2633  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2011, 1:39 PM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
I'm not worried where the thing ends up because I'm sure Metro Transit will set up something. If they are smart (and I think Fenwick, or someone else mentioned this before) - they will partner with who ever setups events or a team and buying a ticket will allow access to transit.
And I am extremely worried where it ends up because I know how poorly Metro Transit is managed, and how badly they operate their system. You DO NOT want to rely on them to get people to and from the stadium.
     
     
  #2634  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2011, 2:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Empire View Post
Finally an article in the the Herald with perspective.

"soccer may be worth $60 million"

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Opinion/1231675.html
This was a terrific column in favour of the FIFA Women's World Cup and a stadium.
     
     
  #2635  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2011, 3:13 PM
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Which is important because the deadline isn't the summer 2015 Women's World Cup, but is actually the summer 2014 U20 Championship. We only have 3 years to get a stadium built.
I wonder if Toronto could be a host for the 2014 U20 Tournament. That could buy Halifax, or Ottawa if legal action against the Lansdowne Park redevelopment delays the construction of the stadium, an extra year. I understand the Pan Am Games prevents them from being involved in the 2015 Women's Tournament, but I can't see why they couldn't be part of he 2014 U20 Tournament if needed.
     
     
  #2636  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2011, 4:08 PM
wespidel wespidel is offline
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60 million dollar stadium will not be adequate enough for Halifax

Case and Point!

- 60 million stadium will not be as big a stadium as BMO field, in relation to features and quality and if it is bigger in capacity it will be a low end facility, like those Nusslli`s drawings you been seeing on CTV local news

- the spring garden rd. 50 to 60 million dollar library project versus a 60 million dollar stadium which realistically should to be a much bigger project than a library needs to be emphasized

- if Halifax can spend 58 million dollars which is the actual cost then how can they not spend more on a stadium which is a bigger project

- Two important questions to ask the public who are going to support the the facility, who are mostly all sports and entertainment fans

- First question- Do you want a 30 to 60 million dollar stadium built in Halifax that will fall short of expectations versus what Halifax really needs for the size of it`s market

- Or secondly do you would a modestly built 25,000 plus permanent seat 85 to 100 million major stadium with all the latest amenities capable of attracting a professional sports franchise owner and other major events, like a Grey Cup game and bigger concerts, etc.

- I believe overwhelmingly the answer to that important question is, number two!

- This is the 21st century and Halifax is the only major city in Canada without a major stadium and the numbers speak for themselves

- A major stadium will put Halifax on a National and Global stage and the demographics supports a major stadium in Halifax versus a smaller venue
- Halifax should truely be seriously considering these two important questions they need to address now and I believe if they can`t support the 2nd major stadium project then they should abolish the advisory committee now and not build a stadium period

- Fed support, well a 45 million dollar 4-pad was built without any Federal money and they were talking about building a 240 million dollar new Metro Centre without Federal money

- building a cheaper low end stadium just to say they built a stadium does not stand up in comparsion to all the other major projects which they respected and took a lot more serious and built high end facilities

- the reason I say this because I believe that is the direction they are going, to build a 10 to 15 thousand permanent seat stadium because of lack of support from the Feds which I believe will be their excuse

- then we will have an embarrassment and an eyesore to look at which will definitely not become a legacy left behind , will it

- If Halifax was to chose number 2nd which I believe is the only option or I believe they should fold the book on a stadium

Here is a potiental financial break-down!


Stadium financial layout and how to budget the overall cost to build the stadium!

( Stadium break-down)

- Structure and design- Super BMO field model, 25,000 plus permanent seats with 30 plus luxury skyboxes, VIP club houses and lounges, permanent concession stands and washrooms, with a partial roof, two tier twined concept with open endzones to expand with a make shift to 45 or 50 thousand seats for major events

Hire a local architect and engineer, perchaps the best students out of Dal. who have a lot of talent and a more innovated ability to design a stadium for a reasonable price. Build the main frame, support brackets and main support posts out of steel, supporting the structure with a concrete wall idential to the way BMO field was constructed to save on costs which will still give you a solid quality structure.

The construction of the stadium and the final cost to build it comes down to the collaboration between the builder and the local supplier, being the fabricator which is the key to the success of the project!


If you give the whole project to a large construction company, they will be want to double their profits on both labour and material. Here is where Halifax can save millions of dollars.

Halifax needs to buy their own material direct, farm it out to local concrete and steel suppliers for the best price and that includes video screens, score clocks, artifical turfs. bucket or backed seats, buy them all driect from the manufactuer and farm out the labour to build it to receive the best price.

Most imortantly get a GMP, Guarantee Maxium Price, to cover any over run costs which will be covered my the contractors and not the city.


Stadium contributions:

HRM: 30 million

NS Govt. 30 million

Universities, Dal & SMU- 10 million

Private Sector: 10 million

Major Stadium Naming rights 8 million

Donated Shannon Park Land 10 million

TOTAL STADIUM COST: (88 million less the free land donated by the Feds)


PS. I have talked to many people around the province and especially within a hour and a half radius of the city who would be the main sports and entertainment supporters of a stadium and who only want to support a sizable multi purpose stadium and all agree 100% in building a modestly priced major stadium between 85 to 100 million dollars or more. So Halifax listen to the people and the people who will be supporting the project and what they want to have built, in order to get their support which you will need!



SPYDER*

One other point on location, which I agree with Fenwick on, is Halifax is probably a better choice because of the economic spin off and better access. I think you must understand in building a stadium you can`t have a stadium located to accomodate all the parking needed. If you have 5,000 parking spots that would be huge because you are not going to have a 25,000 seat stadium with 25,000 parking spots or even half that so Fenwick is right you need a location where there is commercialization and easy public transit to and from.
     
     
  #2637  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2011, 4:41 PM
wespidel wespidel is offline
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Reason I bought these two scenarios to the table

Last week on talk radio because of the announced non- support from the Feds to help Halifax build a stadium, there was the head of Soccer Scotia on and he said now they are probably looking to build a 10 to 15 thousand permanent seat stadium and not a major professional sports stadium. Then at the same time, Councillor Barry Dalrymple got on and said Halifax were looking to build a 90 million dollar stadium. So that`s is why I have posted these two scenarios. Now the 90 million dollar stadium project may have been with the Feds support or may have not. I would think it probably was with federal support. But I still believe it`s the only way to go and I believe they can still do it without the Feds and like Mayor Kelly said in the Metro awhile back, that it would be a major piece of infrastructure.Well Mayor Kelly it would be a major facility if it was a 90 million dollar stadium. Lets hope it`s a 90 million dollar project, something we can all be proud of!


SPYDER*
     
     
  #2638  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2011, 4:42 PM
wespidel wespidel is offline
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Sorry!

should be Brought to the table!
     
     
  #2639  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2011, 5:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wespidel View Post
Case and Point!

- 60 million stadium will not be as big a stadium as BMO field, in relation to features and quality and if it is bigger in capacity it will be a low end facility, like those Nusslli`s drawings you been seeing on CTV local news

- the spring garden rd. 50 to 60 million dollar library project versus a 60 million dollar stadium which realistically should to be a much bigger project than a library needs to be emphasized

- if Halifax can spend 58 million dollars which is the actual cost then how can they not spend more on a stadium which is a bigger project

- Two important questions to ask the public who are going to support the the facility, who are mostly all sports and entertainment fans

- First question- Do you want a 30 to 60 million dollar stadium built in Halifax that will fall short of expectations versus what Halifax really needs for the size of it`s market

- Or secondly do you would a modestly built 25,000 plus permanent seat 85 to 100 million major stadium with all the latest amenities capable of attracting a professional sports franchise owner and other major events, like a Grey Cup game and bigger concerts, etc.

- I believe overwhelmingly the answer to that important question is, number two!

- This is the 21st century and Halifax is the only major city in Canada without a major stadium and the numbers speak for themselves

- A major stadium will put Halifax on a National and Global stage and the demographics supports a major stadium in Halifax versus a smaller venue
- Halifax should truely be seriously considering these two important questions they need to address now and I believe if they can`t support the 2nd major stadium project then they should abolish the advisory committee now and not build a stadium period

- Fed support, well a 45 million dollar 4-pad was built without any Federal money and they were talking about building a 240 million dollar new Metro Centre without Federal money

- building a cheaper low end stadium just to say they built a stadium does not stand up in comparsion to all the other major projects which they respected and took a lot more serious and built high end facilities

- the reason I say this because I believe that is the direction they are going, to build a 10 to 15 thousand permanent seat stadium because of lack of support from the Feds which I believe will be their excuse

- then we will have an embarrassment and an eyesore to look at which will definitely not become a legacy left behind , will it

- If Halifax was to chose number 2nd which I believe is the only option or I believe they should fold the book on a stadium

Here is a potiental financial break-down!


Stadium financial layout and how to budget the overall cost to build the stadium!

( Stadium break-down)

- Structure and design- Super BMO field model, 25,000 plus permanent seats with 30 plus luxury skyboxes, VIP club houses and lounges, permanent concession stands and washrooms, with a partial roof, two tier twined concept with open endzones to expand with a make shift to 45 or 50 thousand seats for major events

Hire a local architect and engineer, perchaps the best students out of Dal. who have a lot of talent and a more innovated ability to design a stadium for a reasonable price. Build the main frame, support brackets and main support posts out of steel, supporting the structure with a concrete wall idential to the way BMO field was constructed to save on costs which will still give you a solid quality structure.

The construction of the stadium and the final cost to build it comes down to the collaboration between the builder and the local supplier, being the fabricator which is the key to the success of the project!


If you give the whole project to a large construction company, they will be want to double their profits on both labour and material. Here is where Halifax can save millions of dollars.

Halifax needs to buy their own material direct, farm it out to local concrete and steel suppliers for the best price and that includes video screens, score clocks, artifical turfs. bucket or backed seats, buy them all driect from the manufactuer and farm out the labour to build it to receive the best price.

Most imortantly get a GMP, Guarantee Maxium Price, to cover any over run costs which will be covered my the contractors and not the city.


Stadium contributions:

HRM: 30 million

NS Govt. 30 million

Universities, Dal & SMU- 10 million

Private Sector: 10 million

Major Stadium Naming rights 8 million

Donated Shannon Park Land 10 million

TOTAL STADIUM COST: (88 million less the free land donated by the Feds)


PS. I have talked to many people around the province and especially within a hour and a half radius of the city who would be the main sports and entertainment supporters of a stadium and who only want to support a sizable multi purpose stadium and all agree 100% in building a modestly priced major stadium between 85 to 100 million dollars or more. So Halifax listen to the people and the people who will be supporting the project and what they want to have built, in order to get their support which you will need!



SPYDER*

One other point on location, which I agree with Fenwick on, is Halifax is probably a better choice because of the economic spin off and better access. I think you must understand in building a stadium you can`t have a stadium located to accomodate all the parking needed. If you have 5,000 parking spots that would be huge because you are not going to have a 25,000 seat stadium with 25,000 parking spots or even half that so Fenwick is right you need a location where there is commercialization and easy public transit to and from.
I agree 100% that $30 - $60 million won't built what is needed. I have a feeling that in the coming months the figures $60 - $90 million will become common terms in discussing the stadium plans and if the project does get the go ahead that in the end the actual cost will be somewhere in the $90 - $120 million range. Just my feelings.
     
     
  #2640  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2011, 5:40 PM
brettinhalifax brettinhalifax is offline
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