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  #1481  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2010, 5:47 AM
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My long term concern - much more so than they honeymoon period ending with protracted seasons of losses piling up, and asses subsequently not in the seasts is that Winnipeg (and Edmonton, and Ottawa) are only viable so long as the Canadian dollar is high. Now, as long as Obama is at the controls of that beached whale to the south, the NHL in Winnipeg likely remains viable. However, in the unlikely event that the beached whale finds water, I'd imagine it will be very tough sledding for Winnipeg, financially. Even a modest $0.80 loonie would be time to start beading sweat if you are a mid-major Canadian market in the NHL.

However, in spite of the negatives, I think the return of the NHL would be such a massive boost to our collectively well-bludgeoned psyche that I'd be willing to roll the dice.
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  #1482  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2010, 6:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Reed Solomon View Post
Just because you have nothing positive to say, doesn't mean you have to bring everyone else down. If you've lost the will to live and think the world is a big cesspool doesn't mean you have to make comments like "why are we even building new buildings just nuke the planet". They've done studies, it can be sustainable. They have a potential ownership group. They have a building. Don't tell me Winnipeg doesn't have enough hockey fans, either.
even chipman didn't think its a guaranteed money maker. If we didn't have Thomson bankrolling this team who else do we have lining up to get us a team? Umm the answer is nobody because we are a small market city. Look it would be great to have the NHL play here and it would put us on the map and it would sure help abolish negativapeg mentality and I still miss not having our jets, but do you really think the Jets really successful when they will always need to dip into revenue sharing just to compete because we won't be able to raise enough money to compete with the rest of the league. Lets face we are a small market team for the NHL. The minnesota wild, Flames, and Oilers all sell out and have great corporate but are capped to the limitations what the market is able to pay. Therefore they are one of the lowest teams not paying up to the ceiling of the cap for the longest time. Therefore the Jets will be in the same situation and worse.

sorry but those are the realities unless the NHL implodes we will not have a team.
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  #1483  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2010, 6:48 AM
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From those Fortune magazine articles, I was under the impression that Winnipeg had more corporate support than Edmonton and Ottawa. I hought our market is around 1 million. Edmonton and Ottawa are only a little larger.
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  #1484  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2010, 6:53 AM
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Originally Posted by dennis View Post
From those Fortune magazine articles, I was under the impression that Winnipeg had more corporate support than Edmonton and Ottawa. I hought our market is around 1 million. Edmonton and Ottawa are only a little larger.
1 million of what?

but those provinces have way more businesses than we ever do.
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  #1485  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2010, 7:25 AM
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Originally Posted by viperred88 View Post
even chipman didn't think its a guaranteed money maker. If we didn't have Thomson bankrolling this team who else do we have lining up to get us a team? ....
....
sorry but those are the realities unless the NHL implodes we will not have a team.
no its not a money maker. An NHL team isn't supposed to be a money maker unless you're New York or Toronto. Heck, Phoenix isn't a money maker and its a fairly big market. Most sports teams probably don't make money. They are usually at best a break even venture to act as a major tenant for a venue, bring prestige to ones city, act as a moving billboard, etc.

It doesn't matter who else is lined up for a team. If we have Thompson and Chipman, thats all we need. Why are you focusing on irrelevancies?

The only thing keeping us out is the lack of a team and a lack of desire on the part of Gary Bettman. Not our economic situation, not our NDP government, not the average income of people who live here. Those don't matter and never will. Will Gary Bettman be able to say no to one of the richest people in Canada forever? To someone who owns a major world media source? Hell no. Thompson Reuters owns major webcasting technologies. One of the biggest opportunities for the NHL apparently.

But go ahead and be a debbie downer. I doubt we're going to get a team any time soon, but I'm never going to close the door to the hope that it happens. If it happens, great. If it doesn't, oh well.
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  #1486  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2010, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Reed Solomon View Post
no its not a money maker. An NHL team isn't supposed to be a money maker unless you're New York or Toronto. Heck, Phoenix isn't a money maker and its a fairly big market. Most sports teams probably don't make money. They are usually at best a break even venture to act as a major tenant for a venue, bring prestige to ones city, act as a moving billboard, etc.

It doesn't matter who else is lined up for a team. If we have Thompson and Chipman, thats all we need. Why are you focusing on irrelevancies?

The only thing keeping us out is the lack of a team and a lack of desire on the part of Gary Bettman. Not our economic situation, not our NDP government, not the average income of people who live here. Those don't matter and never will. Will Gary Bettman be able to say no to one of the richest people in Canada forever? To someone who owns a major world media source? Hell no. Thompson Reuters owns major webcasting technologies. One of the biggest opportunities for the NHL apparently.

But go ahead and be a debbie downer. I doubt we're going to get a team any time soon, but I'm never going to close the door to the hope that it happens. If it happens, great. If it doesn't, oh well.
hey I would love to get a team, even if our team has one of the smallest payrolls. I just believe our economic realities hinder our chances. Ever since Jetsowner.com started making us in this city potential in acquiring a team it has drained winnipegers hope since 2003. If we get a team I would certainly buy into season tickets and Jets tv package showing away games. Getting a team would surely put us on the map worldwide like it once did and help make our city an attractive place to live.

I even wish we had statues of former Jets hall of famers downtown. Hawerchuck and Hull statues should be situated at portage and main, the rest should be by the arena.
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  #1487  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2010, 3:51 PM
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here is an ESPN Article
Relocation not going to happen
December, 7, 2010
DEC 7
7:42
PM ET
By Scott Burnside
West Palm Beach, Fla. -- With all due respect to our friends north of the border, isn't it time Canadians stop waiting for the relocation fairy to drop by with a brand-new NHL franchise?

We understand why every whisper and burp out of the league offices might be big news in Winnipeg and, more lately, Quebec City. Is this it? Is this the time when the NHL comes back home to Winnipeg or Quebec City or finds a vacant parking lot somewhere in Southern Ontario?

But does anyone really think there is a snowball's chance in, well, Phoenix in mid-July that an NHL team is going to up and move anytime soon?

The answer is an emphatic "no." It is not going to happen. NHL commissioner Gary Bettman tells us it's not going to happen, and history tells us he is right.

Although there was a strong contingent of Canadian reporters at the NHL Board of Governors' meetings in Florida, among them Francophone reporters eager to chase down the latest on a potential move of a team, any team, to Quebec City, the topic did not even come up at the meetings.

Bettman was asked whether he was concerned about the situation in Atlanta, where crowds continue to be thin even though the team is as competitive now as it has ever been. He was not concerned, he said.

"You know, too much is made about franchise issues at a particular point in time. Our goal is to keep all our franchises where they are. That's always been our goal and that's what we try to do," Bettman said at the close of the annual December gathering of the NHL's owners.

It's true the commissioner does have a tendency to see life-giving rain when others see ominous storm clouds when it comes to various issues around the NHL. This is never truer than when discussing issues of attendance and franchise health. But history bears out Bettman's assertions.

No NHL team has relocated in more than 14 years.

The last team to move was the Carolina Hurricanes, who relocated from Hartford prior to the 1996-97 season.

A year earlier, the Winnipeg Jets moved to the desert and became the Phoenix Coyotes, and a year before that, the Quebec Nordiques quietly folded their tent and became the Colorado Avalanche.

Have teams been in trouble in the intervening years since that period of transition early in Bettman's tenure? Of course. There have been bankruptcies north and south of the border, criminal owners and owners behaving criminally, and all manner of hiccups along the way.

At various points in time, the Nashville Predators, Pittsburgh Penguins, Phoenix Coyotes and New York Islanders all have been rumored to be on the move to places as diverse as Las Vegas, Kansas City and somewhere in Southern Ontario.

None have moved. None are likely to.

During this meeting of the Board of Governors, the executive committee was introduced to Matthew Hulsizer, who is set to take over as owner of the Coyotes.

Who knows how that will turn out, but it appears hockey will remain in the desert long into the future, much to the disappointment of fans in Winnipeg who were hoping the Coyotes would be relocated there.

With that ownership fire beaten down, the focus has shifted to the Atlanta Thrashers and Dallas Stars.

Tom Hicks is looking for someone to buy the Stars and the ownership group in Atlanta is looking for investors, if not someone to come in and buy the Thrashers outright.

Recent history suggests it is only a matter of time before someone turns up with enough money and enough interest in the game to try to make a go of it in those markets.

Don't believe us?

It wasn't long ago that the Coyotes looked all but dead, but Hulsizer appears to be the perfect owner, a wealthy devotee of the game prepared to take losses while things get turned around.

Jeff Vinik brought stability to the Tampa Bay Lightning, and already that franchise is showing signs of rehabilitating itself after a period of turmoil under former owners Oren Koules and Len Barrie.

The Buffalo Sabres are apparently in play, and there are rumors Terry Pegula, an ultra-wealthy hockey fan from Pennsylvania, will make an offer to buy the team from Tom Golisano. Golisano, who rescued the Sabres from bankruptcy, wouldn't comment on the issue Tuesday, but Pegula looks at first blush to be someone like Hulsizer and Vinik who would be a nice fit within the ownership group.

The St. Louis Blues ownership situation looked a bit dicey earlier in the year when a private equity firm that owns a significant portion of the club announced it would divest itself of its investment, sending the Blues into a scramble to find alternative investors. Since then, the firm has scaled back that plan, and owner Dave Checketts said Tuesday that he hopes to have additional investors in place early in the New Year.

"We're well along," Checketts said. "We have said that we thought probably early in the New Year we'll be done and we will hit that."

Big picture, he and team president John Davidson are optimistic about the attractiveness of NHL teams to quality investors.

"I feel good about Gary's leadership. I feel good about the way we're addressing our issues. I think the league is an attractive investment for a lot of people now," Checketts said.

"For Dave and his restructuring, he's certainly staying, but he's had a lot of very good people very interested in being a part of it," Davidson added.

Beyond that, Davidson, a longtime NHL netminder and national broadcaster, said it's important from a stability standpoint that the league continues its practice of working as hard as possible to keep teams from relocating.

"I give the commissioner a lot of credit for being patient with a lot of these situations.

"You can't be a transient group, you just can't, when you have issues, jump up, move somewhere else and hope it works," Davidson said.

"I admire the way they battle to stay in all these cities where they committed themselves to. There are a lot of people on the other end in those cities, not just ownership, a lot of people who commit to your franchise when it comes in there," he added.

Because the game is such a motherhood issue for Canadians, these ownership discussions always will be shot through with emotion, which often clouds the issue.

Does Atlanta deserve to have a team when Winnipeg does not?

If an arena gets built in Quebec City, doesn't it deserve to have a team ahead of a place like Atlanta or Florida or Phoenix?

It's an interesting debate, but it has little to do with how the league does its business.

It's not about who deserves to have an NHL team. It's about making it work where the NHL has put down its flag, and that means no amount of pining for a return of the NHL is going to see a team head north anytime soon.
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  #1488  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2010, 5:34 AM
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dennis the menace

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis View Post
From those Fortune magazine articles, I was under the impression that Winnipeg had more corporate support than Edmonton and Ottawa. I hought our market is around 1 million. Edmonton and Ottawa are only a little larger.
Time to start studying instead of being under impressions dennis. Big $ Corporate support is by far more available in Edmonton and Ottawa and it's not hard to find stats on populations. Edmonton and Ottawa are like 1.1 and 1.2 million people where as the peg is like 800 k. that would be a difference of a quarter million people more in Edmonton and Ottawa. That's a lot more people to carry the load.
Are you prepared to pay the big bucks to go to a game. I am going to the Edmonton vs Toronto game next week in Edmonton, row 10, tickets $225 a piece x 4 =$900 for 4 tickets.
Edmonton has sold out 80 plus home games spanning over the last 2 years plus. The word corporate support or how many head offices are located in a city is misleading, Edmonton and Alberta have hundreds of wealthy companies that support the oilers / flames.
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  #1489  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2010, 9:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Tower Crane View Post
Time to start studying instead of being under impressions dennis. Big $ Corporate support is by far more available in Edmonton and Ottawa and it's not hard to find stats on populations. Edmonton and Ottawa are like 1.1 and 1.2 million people where as the peg is like 800 k. that would be a difference of a quarter million people more in Edmonton and Ottawa. That's a lot more people to carry the load.
Are you prepared to pay the big bucks to go to a game. I am going to the Edmonton vs Toronto game next week in Edmonton, row 10, tickets $225 a piece x 4 =$900 for 4 tickets.
Edmonton has sold out 80 plus home games spanning over the last 2 years plus. The word corporate support or how many head offices are located in a city is misleading, Edmonton and Alberta have hundreds of wealthy companies that support the oilers / flames.
Check my signature...
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TOP 800 -Winnipeg: 32 + 3 subsidiaries = 35
----------Edmonton: 25 + 1 subsidiary = 26
----------Quebec City: 16 + 2 subsidiaries = 18
----------Ottawa: 15 + 1 subsidiary = 16
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  #1490  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2010, 3:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Tower Crane View Post
Time to start studying instead of being under impressions dennis. Big $ Corporate support is by far more available in Edmonton and Ottawa and it's not hard to find stats on populations. Edmonton and Ottawa are like 1.1 and 1.2 million people where as the peg is like 800 k. that would be a difference of a quarter million people more in Edmonton and Ottawa. That's a lot more people to carry the load.
Are you prepared to pay the big bucks to go to a game. I am going to the Edmonton vs Toronto game next week in Edmonton, row 10, tickets $225 a piece x 4 =$900 for 4 tickets.
Edmonton has sold out 80 plus home games spanning over the last 2 years plus. The word corporate support or how many head offices are located in a city is misleading, Edmonton and Alberta have hundreds of wealthy companies that support the oilers / flames.
Those are metro populations. By definition, they represent a certain percentage of exurban commuters who commute to work from certain sattelite communities located around a central city (which by definition has more than 100,000). A market is a the population of a certain geographic area that would purchase certain products or services such as hockey tickets. Steinbach and surrounding communities and municipalities are not included in Winnipeg's metro area. Steinbach is approaching 14,000. (11,000) in 2006. Its rate of growth is one of the fastest in Canada. Hannover municipality has even more people and even closer to winnipeg. It is growing at a faster rate. St. Andrews and Selkirk city also have a combination of over 20000 people, 10 mins to 20 mins from Winnipeg, not included in the CMA. Rockwood municipality, Stonewall and stoney mountain are growing quite fast.

I am just saying, the market is larger than the CMA. By next census, the population living at least 100km from the mts centre will be approaching one million. Am I missing other communities that would see NHL games. I am sure North Dakota, (Grand Forks, Fargo citizens) will see some games, as well as Saskatchewan, Minnesota and Northewest Ontario residents. They add to the market also.
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  #1491  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2010, 3:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Pegger5 View Post
Check my signature...
Pegger your link doesn't work...
A few notes on your list:

1 business in the top 50, a Crown Corp, the Canadian Wheat Board
3 in the top 100
6 in the top 150, including 2 Crowns and Canwest Global
7 in the top 200
9 in the top 250
10 in the top 300, including 3 Crowns and CWG.

Of course, this is a bit of a misnomer, in that where a company is headquartered can often have little to do with the support that a company feels they will give a sports team. For example, the arenas in Calgary and Vancouver are named by companies who are based in the East. Where a company is headquartered is less important than where they do business. A major bank might have a suite in Calgary and Vancouver, but 'only' club seats in Edmonton or Ottawa, depending on what their business is in that centre.
I think there is skepticism from a lot of people that there would be long term takeup of luxury seating products both by firms that currently have suites in the MTS Centre now, and by firms that would be attracted by the glamour of NHL hockey over AHL hockey.
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  #1492  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2010, 10:37 AM
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Wow, Jet's fans..

Watch Arizonians cave on the newest agreement between Glendale and the Coyotes!!!

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...ale-lease.html
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  #1493  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2010, 6:31 PM
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yeah this deal is ridiculous.

given the history of the Yotes financial struggles, I fail to see how this will change anything.

Since the deal will likely go through on tuesday, good for them.

something will have to come up from this deal though...I just cannot see this going through without any form of resistance what-so-ever
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  #1494  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2010, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by roccerfeller View Post
yeah this deal is ridiculous.

given the history of the Yotes financial struggles, I fail to see how this will change anything.

Since the deal will likely go through on tuesday, good for them.

something will have to come up from this deal though...I just cannot see this going through without any form of resistance what-so-ever
This might take an early Christmas miracle for them to realize what a grave mistake they're about to make if they are going through. It'll probably take a divine intervention to call out the deal and say "this is bullshit" and then stop the whole thing altogether.

I seriously hope that common sense will prevail in this, and so far, I see none of it.
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  #1495  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2010, 10:59 PM
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This might take an early Christmas miracle for them to realize what a grave mistake they're about to make if they are going through. It'll probably take a divine intervention to call out the deal and say "this is bullshit" and then stop the whole thing altogether.

I seriously hope that common sense will prevail in this, and so far, I see none of it.
W.C. Fields would say it's your moral obligation to never give a sucker an even break.
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  #1496  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2010, 12:44 AM
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coyotes are done...bring on the original plan.....hotlanta.

byfuglien will be fun to watch.

good high scoring team...not a bunch of muckers with a goalie like in phoenix.
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  #1497  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2010, 2:17 AM
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Yeah to be honest I'd rather have Atlanta's players (and prospects) than Phoenix. Plus, just think of the insane rivalry between the Coyotes and Winnipeg. Fans in Phoenix likely won't care (have they ever?) but when the Coyotes come to MTS Centre, it will be the noisiest building in the league!
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  #1498  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2010, 6:09 AM
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I agree that Atlanta is the better team, but somehow my thirst for poetic justice goes unsatiated.
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  #1499  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2010, 7:29 AM
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Where is the Goldwater Institute on this "deal?"
I imagine that they're furious over the terms of this deal!

Good luck filling that arena, Glendale... it looked pretty thin in there on the highlights tonight.
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  #1500  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2010, 8:36 AM
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I'd hate to be a tax payer in Glendale.

"Counting the money now pledged to Hulsizer, Glendale's debt on sports-related venues with interest tops $1 billion.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2010/12/10/20101210phoenix-coyotes-glendale-lease.html#ixzz17suyrw3z"
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