Canada Line | Completed

[NucksFanInVan]

Originally Posted by mr.x

it would be brilliant if they could start using 18 or 19 trains soon for at least peak hour service.

Running the peak period service at four minute headways requires 18 of their 20 trains with the additional two kept as spares. This is from schedule 6 of the Concession Agreement.

Also, InTransitBC ditched the idea of an initial service plan (same reference) in favour of the immediate implementation of their Service Plan - so our peak period service is running at 90% (18/20).

Considering the service plan and train requirements were developed based on travel times and station dwell times, I don't see how they could achieve 4 minute headways with less than 18 trains in operation. Unless someone from Translink or ProTransBC can correct me?

FWIW, Schedule 6 also clearly states that one side of the Waterfront platform will be used for Richmond-Brighouse trains, the other for YVR trains... but only when they have to start decreasing headway on the mainline.

[nova9]

Just gotta add that my mother, a Chinese woman pushing 60 with only a competent grasp of English managed to navigate the entire route without getting lost once. She even tried to give ME hints, like how it's better to transfer through Pacific Centre. She was just completely ecstatic about the Canada Line.

These other commuters just show me that they are a bunch of soft, coddled, whingers. They really need to get over themselves. Complaining about body odours, look, I just got back from Bumbershoot. I know something about body odour.

I do agree with Metro-One though. Re-instate a few routes to get those whingers off the line so they can suffer on their buses. Can't wait for those biting winters when they can't get to work.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by NucksFanInVan

Running the peak period service at four minute headways requires 18 of their 20 trains with the additional two kept as spares. This is from schedule 6 of the Concession Agreement.

Also, InTransitBC ditched the idea of an initial service plan (same reference) in favour of the immediate implementation of their Service Plan - so our peak period service is running at 90% (18/20).

Oh...and here i was thinking we could put more trains during the peak hour rush. In other words, we need to start thinking about getting more trains now.

[NucksFanInVan]

Originally Posted by mr.x

Oh...and here i was thinking we could put more trains during the peak hour rush. In other words, we need to start thinking about getting more trains now.

Absolutely - as per my first post, they thought it would take peak period ridership 30 years to get to the levels we saw yesterday. Why? I'll never know.

But the important point is that the Concessionaire has no plans, requirements or capacity to increase service; we won't see any improvements unless and until Translink buys more trains (and pays more $$ for operations). And with their cash-strapped wrangling, you can bet another $100M+ won't be easily forthcoming.

I was hopeful that they might rent some trains short-term for the Olympics (like Bombardier's Flexity trains for the Olympic Line) to keep from looking to the world like Transit Gomers during the Olympics but alas, I fear I shall be disappointed.

[nname]

Originally Posted by NucksFanInVan

Running the peak period service at four minute headways requires 18 of their 20 trains with the additional two kept as spares. This is from schedule 6 of the Concession Agreement.

Also, InTransitBC ditched the idea of an initial service plan (same reference) in favour of the immediate implementation of their Service Plan - so our peak period service is running at 90% (18/20).

Considering the service plan and train requirements were developed based on travel times and station dwell times, I don't see how they could achieve 4 minute headways with less than 18 trains in operation. Unless someone from Translink or ProTransBC can correct me?

FWIW, Schedule 6 also clearly states that one side of the Waterfront platform will be used for Richmond-Brighouse trains, the other for YVR trains... but only when they have to start decreasing headway on the mainline.

If you analyze their published schedule closely, you'll find out that... they are using only 14 trains!



If they use 18 trains with the current recovery time, they're able to do 2min 55sec headway. If 19 trains is possible, then the headway can be further reduced to 2min 45sec.

[DKaz]

Richmond and South of Fraser residents - stay home during 2010. Lol.

If we got an extra 10 cars that will cost maybe $40 mil it could increase peak hour capacity by 27% to about 8700 ppphd, we should do it. Somehow...

Originally Posted by nname

If you analyze their published schedule closely, you'll find out that... they are using only 14 trains!



If they use 18 trains with the current recovery time, they're able to do 2min 55sec headway. If 19 trains is possible, then the headway can be further reduced to 2min 45sec.

That was their initial schedule, but I think they've quickly moved forward with the 3:10/6:20 schedule. FWIW, I think the trains layover at Waterfront for about 60 seconds.

[s211]

Has it been mentioned that the compass set in the sidewalk at the City Centre entrance doesn't point north? It's actually pointing NE. VERY NE.

[twoNeurons]

trust nname to crunch the numbers. I bet you love Excel.

[nname]

Originally Posted by DKaz

That was their initial schedule, but I think they've quickly moved forward with the 3:10/6:20 schedule. FWIW, I think the trains layover at Waterfront for about 60 seconds.

Well, Translink didn't update their site then.. but I'm pretty sure the last time I took the train, they are still running 3:45/7:30 schedule.

But even if they are running 3:10/6:20 schedule, they are still running at most 17 trains (it is achievable with 16 trains, but with very little recovery time at each end). In fact, there is no way that they can fit 18 trains onto the guide way without using both side of platforms at Waterfront as it would require a recovery of 7min.

[CLC]

It is unimaginable if there has been only 14 trains in the working in AM rush since yesterday! Canada Line performance seemed okay though, at most one train wait at Brighouse. It is better than a lot of bus route in Vancouver Proper that filled to capacity and passed up stop(s) for a continuous half hour.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by CLC

It is unimaginable if there has been only 14 trains in the working in AM rush since yesterday! Canada Line performance seemed okay though, at most one train wait at Brighouse. It is better than a lot of bus route in Vancouver Proper that filled to capacity and passed up stop(s) for a continuous half hour.

But it's not a bus. And no bus route is that full on opening day. I wonder how many trains they're actually running. My guess is 16, based on what I've read here and other places.

[WarrenC12]

What's the max capacity of trains on the C-Line? There is a plan (and platform space) for middle "C" cars too right? Although I'd support more train freq. before longer trains.

Overall it seems like the C-Line has been a success, even with the weird complaints. But in terms of 20-30 years into the future, I don't see a huge capacity growth. Both the E and M line stations were used as development hubs for growth. In particular Burnaby's growth around the M lines has been crazy. The Expo line spurred growth around Metrotown, Joyce, and all of Surreys stations to name a few. And of course the huge residential growth downtown, and the addition of GM Place has added to the usage of the line as a whole.

However if you look at the C-Line, there will no doubt be some further growth in the Richmond portion, and the addition of the SEFC area residents, post-Olympics. Beyond that, it's less clear. There are huge stretches of the line along Cambie that will likely remain SFHs well into the future, and see very little, if any, density growth.

In that respect I think we should be happy that the C-Line has great ridership out of the gate, but I wouldn't expect anything near the growth seen in the E and M lines in the coming decades. So, was the line underbuilt? I think time will show it wasn't, although more cars should be ordered, or at least put more of the ones that are here into use.

Does anybody know why Translink keeps 20% of their rolling stock out of usage, when as mentioned earlier, typically transit systems will only hold back 10%? Especially when we're just talking peak period usage.

I saw a 4 car new Mark2 train in use today. Finally...

[cabotp]

Went out to Yvr yesterday around 5pm to see what it was like. After bridgeport it is quite empty and easy to find a seat. Also train leaving yvr was easy to get a seat on. So for the past two weeks I'd guess that 70-80% of people going to yvr were sight seeing.

Which makes me think they should run 2 to richmond and 1 to yvr during the peak. Although the wait would be about 15-20 minutes at yvr. So it might be a bit too long. If they ran a train out there and had it sit on the platform for people to load up until it was ready to leave with the clock counting down as to when it would leave. It might not seem as long.

I also don't understand why people have to stand right around the entrance. Gee go to the other end of the platform where it is empty.

[TransitJack]

It's true about the City of Vancouver going to take some years before they start to build out around the CL stations. Aside from continued development around the SE False Creek area moving west towards the OV Station, and perhaps the possibility of a redevelopment of Oakridge mall to include more residential units, the Vancovuer portion is not poised to take full advantage of urban change and growth as evidenced along both the Expo and M Lines. Can you imagine the residents of South Cambie allowing for condo towers in their neighbourhood around King Ed Station?

That being said, Richmond has already taken huge leaps in their redevelopment plans around the CL line. There are still more buildings going up around Brighouse, and down by Capstan, west of #3 there is a large project going in there too. Add to plans for a redeveloped Bridgeport area and it is obvious that growth from Richmond will be where capacity constraints will be originating from.

I am amazed how busy the line is since opening, however, I am content to take a wait-and-see approach to ridership #'s, once the initial excitement dissipates, the major back to school/work crush is over and people settle into normal patterns, and the whack of looky loos return to what ever it is they normally do. This is not to say ridership will plummet, however I think this line (unlike M LINE) will have reached a plateau much quicker and then not see massive growth as shown on the other lines.

No long term investments are going to come to this line anytime soon. Not for a few years for any real trends are able to be shown.

[SpongeG]

Commute goes smoothly -- anticipated chaos fails to show

By Pete McMartin, Vancouver SunSeptember 9, 2009

The South Coast British Columbia Transportation Authority -- or, as it is more commonly known, "those TransLink (insert swear word of choice here)" -- has so become the favourite whipping boy of commuters, taxpayers and, well, me, among other jackals of the press, that the backs of the folks at TransLink must by now resemble ground chuck.

Little goes right in the TransLink universe these days, from organizing a bridge opening to keeping a budget. News reports have it that even His Majesty, the Premier, is not amused.

With that in mind, and with whip in hand, I ventured forth Tuesday for my daily bus commute from South Delta, on what we in the media had agreed, and hoped, would be a day of chaos.

It went thusly:

8 a.m.: Walk one block to bus stop.

8:08 a.m.: Bus arrives at bus stop on schedule.

8:32 a.m.: Bus arrives at Bridgeport station.

8:33 a.m.: Canada Line car leaves Bridgeport station.

8:52 a.m.: Canada Line car arrives at Waterfront Station.

8:53 a.m.: Walk into office.

My commute took exactly 53 minutes. On a good day, when the bus wasn't stacked up in traffic at the Massey Tunnel and the Oak Street Bridge, my previous bus commutes would take an hour and 10 minutes. On a bad day, it would be an hour and a half.

Tuesday's commute represented a time saving to me of almost 20 minutes. It was also an immeasurably smoother ride.

(My only complaint: The signage at the Canada Line stations is awful. Riders have trouble identifying what station they are at.)

In the commuter lottery, I came out a winner in the new configuration. Of course, there will be some losers -- those who are no longer dropped off in front of their offices, for example, or those who will have to transfer a second time to go down Granville.

But it demands mentioning that, in general, the day's commute went smoothly -- that at the end of the controversy-riddled construction of the Canada Line, the system seems to have worked as it was supposed to and was embraced by commuters.

It also deserves mentioning that in communities south of the Fraser, especially White Rock and South Delta, the new configuration was the source of angst for some commuters. They objected to the fact that their old bus routes, which went all the way downtown, would now be redirected to their new terminus at Bridgeport station in Richmond, where they would then transfer to the Canada Line. Some objected to having to make the transfer, while some parents objected to their children having to make an extra transfer so they could reach their private schools along Granville. It generated petitions and complaints at TransLink open houses.

TransLink's argument?

The "vast majority" of those White Rock and South Delta bus passengers, said TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie, were going downtown anyway. Those downtown-bound passengers will also benefit most in terms of time saved, Hardie said, when they'll be able to board the unimpeded Canada Line and not a bus that has to fight its way out of Vancouver's rush-hour traffic.

Also, Hardie said, the cost recovery on those long-haul routes was extremely low, as low as 21 per cent.

"So we're getting some cost efficiency on those routes now, admittedly at the expense of some passengers."

Understandably, it is a sentiment that will rankle those "some" passengers. Their old routines have been upset. Their commute times may increase. They may feel compelled to revert to driving again.

But it is my guess that many more commuters south of the Fraser will begin to see the advantage in not having to fight the tunnel and bridge bottlenecks, and not having to fight Vancouver rush-hour traffic, in bus or car.

It is also my guess that this will do nothing to lower the shrillness of those many Metro Vancouverites who, laughably, think we have the worst traffic in the world. Nor will it, or should it, do anything to stop the criticism of TransLink's failings.

But a more generous spirit would also recognize its successes, and that credit should be paid where credit is due. And it is due in this case.

The day went smoothly. Chaos will have to wait.

[email protected]

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Commute...ated+chaos+fails+show/1974593/story.html

[Gordon]

How long are the E & M line platforms?

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

The pushing and shoving seems pretty easy to fix. A few stickers later and you have:




Vancouver people aren't so much rude as they are opportunistic, if there are signs telling people what they [should] do, in general they will do it.

I'm actually impressed by the Waterfront passengers. Some, not all, actually adhere to this type of unloading/loading pattern. I can't understand why people coming from Cardova don't walk further south on the platform, instead of all cramming the first door they come across.

[TransitJack]

I'm noticing a trend, I seem to reply in 3's.

I'm pretty sure they are only running 14 trains right now, with spares placed in obvious locations as Waterfront, near the OMC, and sometimes at Lansdowne, and YVR storage tracks. This leaves minimum of 2 in the yard. Naturally we can't expect EVERY Train to be out running, as they have to rotate trains in for maintenance and naturally trains break down sometimes so having a few spares doesn't hurt. This is especially true if a problem at one end of the line bunches up all the trains, its nice to be able to add a train elsewhere where there is less congestion and try to mitigate the service.

Clearly longer, and WIDER platforms would have been better. As evidenced by Skytrain, having LONGER trains makes a world of difference. I would always cringe when at Broadway Stn and a 2car MkII train pulled up. Hallelujah there are now more 4 car mkII trains. But on CL, this is not possible unless significant investment is undertaken (new C cars, longer platforms) and we all know this is NOT happening anytime soon.

Comments regarding using both Waterfront platforms are bang on, use one for Brighouse, one for YVR. If only they had made an extra track, in the vicinity for a spare (Like they have at Skytrain waterfront), and maybe a few pocket tracks south of FalseCreek. But alas, this line was made a cheap as possible. This cheapness got the line built, but as Mr. X loves to point out, its severely under built. (and not because it's underground )

[Metro-One]

Again, we should remember that when operating at its max capacity (3 car trains every 90 sec or less from Waterfront to Bidgeport) this line will be the equivalent of running 5 car MK1 trains every 90 sec or less. (or 4 car MK2 trains every 90 sec)

When put in those terms, to me it does not seem as big a problem as we are making it.

And far in the future if major extensions are needed, it can be done, and this will give us a good chance to fix any other age/design problems with the system that emerge by that time.

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Richmond and South of Fraser residents - stay home during 2010. Lol.

If we got an extra 10 cars that will cost maybe $40 mil it could increase peak hour capacity by 27% to about 8700 ppphd, we should do it. Somehow...



That was their initial schedule, but I think they've quickly moved forward with the 3:10/6:20 schedule. FWIW, I think the trains layover at Waterfront for about 60 seconds.

No it doesn't - it stops just long enough to unload and load then it's off - around 15 seconds