Salt Lake:Official development news thread - Part 2

[SLC Rocks]

So this is just a complete rumor, but I was talking to a bartender friend of mine down at Gracies, a new nice bar where club naked used to be. The owner of that building is the same owner of the old Zepher lot across the street. My friend, (who could care less about high rises) said the owner is trying to build a "high rise" where the old zepher used to be. I can't remember the guys name, but I know he owns a lot of the buildings and land in that area. I also know he is fairly full of SH*% when it comes to doing anything, he had about 5 or 6 plans to turn the zepher into a steak house at one point. I will see if I can find more detailed info.

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by SLC Rocks

So this is just a complete rumor, but I was talking to a bartender friend of mine down at Gracies, a new nice bar where club naked used to be. The owner of that building is the same owner of the old Zepher lot across the street. My friend, (who could care less about high rises) said the owner is trying to build a "high rise" where the old zepher used to be. I can't remember the guys name, but I know he owns a lot of the buildings and land in that area. I also know he is fairly full of SH*% when it comes to doing anything, he had about 5 or 6 plans to turn the zepher into a steak house at one point. I will see if I can find more detailed info.

Awesome Awesome I hopehe builds something nice there, we could use it, lol.

[jmonkey]

I think the owner of the Zephyr site is full of shit. Last I heard, he was trying to change the zoning on the property to allow a surface parking lot, but the city has refused the change. Out of spite, he is allowing his buildings to sit vacant and rapidly deteriorate--the worst kind of land-banking slum-lord, lower than Earl Holding. I've never heard that he was interested in a high-rise, just a surface parking lot.

[Viperlord]

Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood.

Awesome Awesome I hopehe builds something nice there, we could use it, lol.

I know it was part of the discussions last year as part of a deal for the broadway theater.

David Bernolfo and Stephen Bamberger are just about as bad as Earl Holding when it comes to sitting on vacant land waiting for their day in the sun.

Zephyr Club eyed in possible Broadway-style theater deal
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/70024...le-Broadway-style-theater-deal.html?pg=1

In the article it talks about demolishing the zephyr for parking. The city has shot that idea down many of times. I also remember reading that the site was looked at as the future downtown public market site as well, in discussions with Bernolfo, he told the city he had plans to develop residential towers on the old zephyr site someday. Given his current track record I wouldnt hold my breath waiting for those residential towers.
But who knows...with the current condo market i say that idea is probably scrapped for a long time if it even happens.

[Zionide]

Originally Posted by jmonkey

I think the owner of the Zephyr site is full of shit. Last I heard, he was trying to change the zoning on the property to allow a surface parking lot, but the city has refused the change. Out of spite, he is allowing his buildings to sit vacant and rapidly deteriorate--the worst kind of land-banking slum-lord, lower than Earl Holding. I've never heard that he was interested in a high-rise, just a surface parking lot.

Right after the Zephyr closed, I heard a rumor that the landlord (Bernolfo) had seen how successful the club was and wanted to open his own in the space, so he refused to renew the Zephyr's lease. But once he got into the (back then) complexities of the state's liquor laws, he abandoned the idea and decided to pursue the parking lot as a "middle finger" to the city/DABC/etc.

That's obviously a stupid reason for a parking lot, but who knows if that rumor has even a hint of truth. Just thought it was interesting.

[cololi]

I don't expect anything out of Bernalfo, ever. the biggest deterent to downtown development is the large amount of land owned by a select few investors who are continually speculating, but never pull the trigger because they can't get development partners who are willing to put up with their BS.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by Sight-Seer

Since people are talking about leaving the forum, I thought I'd contribute. The reason I became interested in this forum is because people seemed to have inside info. Unfortunatedly there's been very little of that. This forum isn't worth the bother. I can see all this stuff myself. And I can take better pictures.

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

I'm with Metro here. I'm downtown enough to see the progress of most of the city's projects firsthand and I read the paper enough to get my fill of news.

When I do want to see what relevant information has been posted, I'll just refer to the compilations and transit subforum pages, where all of the relevant information and photos get reposted without all of the crap that occupies the other 85% of Utah posts in the MW section. The fact that we need an admin. to babysit and constantly remove posts speaks to how far this forum has degraded in the years since I first joined. Adios.

Originally Posted by MetroFanatic

I think I'm going to take a little break from this forum for a while. Ciao.

I agree with these guys. I know when I'm not welcome. Bye.

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by cololi

I don't expect anything out of Bernalfo, ever. the biggest deterent to downtown development is the large amount of land owned by a select few investors who are continually speculating, but never pull the trigger because they can't get development partners who are willing to put up with their BS.

yeah, but with how well Utah, and SLC in particular, have been performing I would not be surprised for a major economic rebound that will make them want to develop the land they own.

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

so, it's bittersweet. Utah's unemployment toped out this month at 5.7 percent almost four percent less then the national average but some sectors of our economy are growing just not as fast as some others are shrinking.

http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_12850985

[Zionide]

Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood.

so, it's bittersweet. Utah's unemployment toped out this month at 5.7 percent almost four percent less then the national average but some sectors of our economy are growing just not as fast as some others are shrinking.

http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_12850985

Bittersweet, yes, but I'm still grateful that we have the "sweet" at all when many, many places are left with just bitterness. We're all fortunate to be in an area that is weathering things relatively well!

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by Zionide

Bittersweet, yes, but I'm still grateful that we have the "sweet" at all when many, many places are left with just bitterness. We're all fortunate to be in an area that is weathering things relatively well!

Yeah, for sure. Our unemployment, as of now, is still lower then Georgia's and Oregon's before the recession.

[delts145]

Agreed, It could be much worse. We also have major ongoing and new construction to look forward to, that will help the overall picture some. Thankfully, we're a ways away from the double digit unemployment numbers that have hit so many surrounding states and the rest of the nation. Hopefully, as the many highway,TRAX, CCC and NSA type projects wind down in the next couple of years, the country will be on the rebound again. Then we can look forward to major new start-ups downtown, Sugarhouse, Cottonwood and other major projects coming back on line.

Also, Projects, don't you dare leave the forum. Hey, take a little vacation from the forum maybe, but don't make it permanent. We all have our days. I for one along with many others would be extremely disapointed to see you leave.

It would be an improvement, if we could all remember to use this forum as not only an expression of our opinion, but be aware that many others need a place to go for a positive boost. Downtown, and METRO development is something we need to often boost our day. We are development lovers, and an exciting development will often give a forumer a much needed positive shot in the arm. If we tear each others opinions, lifestyle choices or especially religious convictions apart, then it serves no positive purpose, except to wound and alienate our fellow forumers. Why should development lovers come on to this forum, if it is full of inflamatory crap, that often isn't even related to an exciting new development. There are other forums for every conceivable little nuance of life. Remember, we all share a common love for city and streetscape development. Let's not get too caught up in the differing details of our opinions. Sure, we can say we disagree, but do it in a way that's reminds the one we're disagreeing with that we have respect for their continuing presence on the forum.

It's pretty simple. If we become a constant source of inflamatory rhetoric, and bullying, or negative opinions about what others might find sacred, serves zero to progress the cause of this forum. There are those with influence who glean ideas and perspective from this forum. They lurk and browse regularly, but don't comment. However, they are a key part of the design and finish of many projects we review regularly. They do take to heart certain progressive attitudes, which are common to local forumers. Simple things, such as the importance of street engagement or the non-stucco finish of many of the new projects, or attitudes toward TRAX etc. This forum is making a difference locally in the quality and attitude toward a number of present and future projects downtown and throughout the metro. Don't ever think that your the only one who has discovered this forum.

.

[jmonkey]

Projects, you've caused as much inflammatory, insulting language on this forum as you've received in return. I don't buy in to your persecution fantasies. I'll respect your religion, when you respect my 'lifestyle choice'; it is indeed a two-way street. Until then, maybe I do 'belong in a zoo', as you suggested. My conscience is clear when it comes to who I am, no matter what insults you dish out.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. And you're welcome to take urbanboy with you.

[Stenar]

"Projects" has been the most egregious at personally attacking people on this forum, so I for one will not miss him if he doesn't return. The only thing that has happened recently is that people have been standing up to his attacks and now suddenly he can't take that.

[TonyAnderson]

He's upset over things posted in the irrelevant section. The easy fix for that is to not browse that topic. Simple enough. And I'll agree that he been a bit rude and intolerant of others. If he wants to just talk about development then that's what he should do.

[jtrent77]

Can we move on and people on the forum just agree to show each other a bit of respect and then we won't have discuss for a page or two about who is leaving and why?

[MetroFanatic]

I just ended up coming back.. ha! Anywho, I'll be doing some video work at the Outdoor Retailers Convention this week... so I might be able to get some pictures of City Creek development at some point. I guess the Outdoor Retailers Convention is one of the biggest in Utah. My friend was telling me during the last one, which was during Sundance, that the two pump the most money into Utah's economy. I don't know if it's true... but I'm sure it pumps quite a bit.

[scottharding]

The irrelevant thread is more than irrelevant. It's stupid. No other region of this forum has felt the need to create a thread to argue opinions. I never check that thread because I'm not interested in what other people think about my choice of religion, lifestyle, race, demographic, or neighborhood. Those that do want to go in there and fight should expect to be offended. That is the only function of that thread, in the end.
Hopefully people will wise-up and let the irrelevant thread disappear. I think its existence is an embarassment to Utah on this forum. I shudder when I think of when people from other parts of the region go in there just out of curiousity. What an impression it must make.

[Comrade]

This is why I haven't stepped foot in that thread.

Seriously, let's not take this internet thing too seriously to the point where you stomp off and leave the board.

[WeST]

I personally like the idea of an irrelevant thread. It funnels topics that are off topic and borderline off topic into a forum that is a catch all. I think that personal attacks are ridiculous, but debating issues is great. It also can serve the purpose of holding discussions related to development, but only indirectly. I don't understand why some forumers can't handle having their beliefs challenged. I appreciate Delts wanting to have this as a place of positive reinforcement, but having that all the time would be boring.

I have no problem if other forumers disagree and challenge everything I say. I welcome having to defend by views. One of the things that motivated me to begin contributing to this forum was to challenge my views and others. I think vigorous debate and discussion is essential to better outcomes. You can't improve yourself in life if you are so sensitive to critiques and challenges.