Salt Lake:Official development news thread

[cololi]

Originally Posted by DMTower

Because of terrorism the feds now require a certain amount of space around their buildings to act as a buffer zone... it's not a matter of poor design so much as a matter of security.

They built govt. buildings all over the country that are actually integrated into their surroundings. The federal court house in San Francisco comes to mind (started construction in 2003 under the same security buffer requirements that exist today). This is a cop out. The federal building on 100 S and State is adjacent to the street. They built the "anti-terrorism measures" into the upgrade of the building without pulling the building away from the street. It can be done. GSA is value engineering this project. if the outdoor space created a comfortable space to be in, then maybe it would be okay, but the outdoor space is vast with no basic urban design concepts incorporated into it. Along 400 South you get a ten foot high concrete wall next to the sidewalk. I personally hope that the budget crisis delays this project to the point that it never happens. The attorney for the Port O call owner claims that the construction has not actually been funded. Can you say Sugarhouse all over again? At least the City has no say in this one.

[eastidaho]

Originally Posted by DMTower

Because of terrorism the feds now require a certain amount of space around their buildings to act as a buffer zone... it's not a matter of poor design so much as a matter of security.

I understand the concern you point out. Although, I still agree with Cololi statement that this is not a positive for DT SLC. IMO, Pierpont, Exchange, & Market are the best possible locations for SLC to take it up a notch. The scale and history of existing structures along with the width of the street is ideal. I question Market and Exchange now with the courthouse and that six/seven story garage ruining the potential for a cohesive experience.

I like SLC. The sports facilities are a lot of fun. Trax is awesome. The geography is beautiful. I have caught Les Miz and Phantom at the Capital. I feel there is some great architecture in the city. The grub establishments are excellent. In fact, I really only have one complaint, and that is lack of continuity downtown. I wish SLC would make me walk down a sidewalk and give me a positive experience in return.

I am amazed when I am with my SLC friends and we can drive and park in front, behind, or next to any place we want to in DT SLC. (Except the bookstore on Main) I love walking DT in large cities. However, when walking in SLC, the gaps of surface parking and amount of harsh street walls only increases the width of the grid streets in my mind and legs when walking from point A to point B. When SLC connects the existing positives, I think its reputation will increase dramatically. Please be careful with development on Pierpont.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by Orlando

I don't know if any of you remember this, but about 11 or 12 years ago when the Grand America was being proposed, the initial plans wer to have Flower Patch move, and The Grand America would build a 14 story office tower on that corner. I saw the model for it in the newspaper, and I've tried to find it. It was supposed to be in a similar white stone style. However, the owners did not want to move. Earl Holding tried to pay them off, and then get the city to force them to move through 'Eminent Domain' because of its blighted nature. But, nonetheless, the Flower Patch prevailed, and we are left with a blighted ugly building on a prominent corner of the city.

I'm STILL angry about this. Not that big business should trump small business, or anything like that, but that there could have been additional height on the main hotel, plus the 14 story tower on the corner, and it didn't ever happen, and won't ever happen because of that friggin' Flower Patch. I still glare at it every time I drive by.

[leerjet]

Update on Trolley Square:

Trolley Square undergoing transformation
November 20th, 2008 @ 5:05pm
By Richard Piatt
Trolley Square is on the verge of becoming something different. Yet, even amid $60 million of renovations, the mall owner is aware of what's already here: The unique mix of old and new features, local and chain stores.

John Reynolds, with Blake Hunt Ventures, said, "Rather than bring in a bunch of marble and make Trolley something that it's not, we really tried to uncover some of its hidden jewels." What's not going to change at Trolley Square is the unique feel. That's according to the owners Blake Hunt Ventures.

But the changes that are happening are significant. On 700 East and 500 South, a large Whole Foods store will be built with parking underneath.

Rounding the corner to the 600 East side of the block, the existing, newly rebuilt parking garage will eventually have retail space on top of it, too.

From ground level, off of 600 South, a plaza will be created. Again, refining elements that already exist here.

Trolley Square Mall Manager Dawn Katter said, "It's just going to give a better atmosphere and shopping experience for our tenants and customers."

This holiday season is already underway. Stores are offering deals to attract shoppers. But there are vacancies, and there are no plans yet to fill them up.

Hard Rock Cafe is among the big names on the way out, but a few long time stores have simply moved. And unique attractions, like Tabula Rasa, are here to stay. Tabula Rasa Manager Sean Bradley said, "When they visit Salt Lake City, they like coming to Trolley Square and they like our own sense of history here."

Construction has been going on for about a year and a half, and there's still another year to go.

The next major phase will be the Whole Foods store and parking structure, which will go where that parking lot is right now.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4855285

It sucks we're loosing Hard Rock.. hopefully we'll get some more and better LOCAL restaurants in there. I was never very impressed with Hard Rock's menue.

Also only $60 mil for the project? Last update it was $74... looks like it's been scaled back too. wah wah

[WASDEN]

Originally Posted by jedikermit

I'm STILL angry about this. Not that big business should trump small business, or anything like that, but that there could have been additional height on the main hotel, plus the 14 story tower on the corner, and it didn't ever happen, and won't ever happen because of that friggin' Flower Patch. I still glare at it every time I drive by.

I like the Patch, I get flowers there often enough, plus its a cool lookin building with more street interaction than any portion of the Grand America. The Grand America is a cool looking hotel though, and if there was any need to add a 14 story 'tower' then I don't see whats wrong with their empty parking lot on State n 6th. Demand is what determines the existence of such a tower, not the Flower Patch. And I'm glad they're there selling flowers instead of some matching back lot pavement.

[SLC Projects]

I think it would be cool if Port O' Call could move somewhere on Main street. Think how much that would help out main street.

[DMTower]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

Security from what? The Bush Administration? 911 was planned; The World Trade Center was imploded, the same way they imploded the old Key Bank Tower; It wasn't an act of Islamic "Terrorists:"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197

Why should we have to suffer these "set back" consequences because of stupid paranoia?! It was all a scam!

I'm not saying I agree, I'm just pointing out that that is their reasoning. Most things federal do not come with a lot of thought or quality put into them.. I personally like the first rendering of the court house where they squeezed it in between Port O Call and the old court house.

[delts145]

Leaner Leonardo moving forward

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705264752,00.html

...The Leonardo plans to finalize its business plan and present it to the city by Dec. 5. The city has hired an out-of-state consultant familiar with arts and science centers to evaluate the plan. The consultant's assessment is expected by mid-January.

That evaluation will go a long way toward determining whether the Salt Lake City Council releases the $10.2 million in voter-approved bond money The Leonardo needs to move forward...

.

[WASDEN]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

I think it would be cool if Port O' Call could move somewhere on Main street. Think how much that would help out main street.

Isn't there some wierd "one bar per block" law downtown? It might prove nearly impossible to create a Main Street with night life- especially when considering the size of those blocks.

[delts145]

How would that figure when you are considering restaurants with full service clubs/bars? If that were the rule, then I imagine there are allot of caveats to it. I would be interested Wasden to hear what the actual rules are on that. I'm sure there are a few forumers who keep track of those things.

[Future Mayor]

According to city ordinance 6.08.120 Location Restrictions: this is what the situation is. This is assuming that District A is the CBD. The CBC couldn't be any of the others because Port and Bliss would violate subsections b and c.

Permissible Locations: The permissible locations of establishments licensed with either a class C beer license, a class B or C private club license, or a temporary class C beer license or a temporary class B or C private club license, or any combination thereof, shall be determined by geographical proximity, based upon the following criteria:

1. a. District A: There shall be no more than two (2) licensed establishments located on any lineal block. A "lineal block" means both sides of a major street between two (2) intersecting major streets. For the purposes of this section, a corner establishment having abutting front footage on two (2) major streets shall be included in the lineal block in which the establishment has the greatest number of front footage abutting the major street, or, if such abutting footage is equal, then the address originally filed with the city shall determine in which lineal block the establishment shall be located.

b. District B: No licensed establishment shall be located within six hundred sixty feet (660') of another licensed establishment as measured from the nearest point on the property line of one establishment to the nearest point on the property line of the other establishment.

c. District C: No licensed establishment shall be located within two thousand feet (2,000') of another licensed establishment as measured from the nearest point on the property line of one establishment to the nearest point on the property line of the other establishment.

2. Major Streets: All major streets and districts will be those designated on official city map 19372, a copy of which shall be on file in the office of the city recorder. All such establishments holding a class C beer or a class B or C private club license must be located so as to front on a major street or be within a building whose main entrance fronts on a major street.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by WASDEN

Isn't there some wierd "one bar per block" law downtown? It might prove nearly impossible to create a Main Street with night life- especially when considering the size of those blocks.

I've never heard of that law before. However it doesn't surprise me.

[urbanboy]

Salt Lake City plans $5.8 million Gallivan makeover

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20s..._id=2e874237-1108-4e37-8efb-52fe82f6290b

[urbanboy]

Becker extends olive branch to Davis chamber

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705264690,00.html

[SLC Tortfeasor]

I just thought I'd share some rather sad gossip I heard recently about 222 South Main. Disclaimer: This information comes not from Hamilton Partners, but rather a commercial real estate expert downtown.

Supposedly 222 South Main is only about 15% leased right now. They're charging significantly more per square foot to rent space in 222 than the other premium class A office buildings downtown, like One Utah Center and the Wells Fargo Building. Supposedly they're up in the range of $30-$33 per square foot, while the places like One Utah Center are in the mid-$20 per square foot range.

It sounds likely that 222 will remain largely vacant for a long time, unless Hamilton dramatically lowers its rental rates, which will likely make it difficult to break even on the project.

Again, remember this is all just speculation based on second-hand gossip.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by SLC Tortfeasor

I just thought I'd share some rather sad gossip I heard recently about 222 South Main. Disclaimer: This information comes not from Hamilton Partners, but rather a commercial real estate expert downtown.

Supposedly 222 South Main is only about 15% leased right now. They're charging significantly more per square foot to rent space in 222 than the other premium class A office buildings downtown, like One Utah Center and the Wells Fargo Building. Supposedly they're up in the range of $30-$33 per square foot, while the places like One Utah Center are in the mid-$20 per square foot range.

It sounds likely that 222 will remain largely vacant for a long time, unless Hamilton dramatically lowers its rental rates, which will likely make it difficult to break even on the project.

Again, remember this is all just speculation based on second-hand gossip.

I don't get it Just a few years ago, there was all this talk about how there is such a large demand for class A offices. Surely there is a demand to fill that building. Somehow that demand has had to translate over to the other class-A office spaces and therefore, lease rates go up, etc. and it makes an incentive to move to a new space. This just does not make sense. Why are we struggling to build a 22 story office building, when we just imploded a 20 story office building? And, we haven't built any new space for about 10 years? This should be mostly filled by now, and the announcement of the CCC's new highrise to have already been

Is Hamilton just an inexperienced developer in this regard? Or is it the inflation of construction material due to Dubai and China? And, or is it due to all the bad news in the economy. Whatever, the reason, there should already exist a demand for such space! What is going on?!!

[SLC Projects]

That sucks. It was up to 35% leased at one point.

Originally Posted by Orlando

I don't get it Just a few years ago, there was all this talk about how there is such a large demand for class A offices.

I'll tell you what it is. The issue is the City and Developer waited to damn long to get any new office towers built. There has been a big demand for office space from like 2003-2007 and yet nothing was done about it. I mean even with the hot economy we had for a few years NOTHING was done about it. The best we did was built a few low-rise office buildings at the gateway. Where the hell has Wasatch Partners been? Are they ever going to develop that 30+ story office building or are they still butt hurt over that fight they got into with Rocky Anderson last year? Or What ever happen with the WTCU plan? There's just way to much talk on how we need buildings built, but nothing really gets done until this past year with CCC and 222 south main and by then it's a day late and a dollar short. The sad thing is Hamilton Partners started building 222 South Main right when the economy started to go downhill.

[SLC Tortfeasor]

Oops, I forgot to share more bad news. This one's about the Boston Building. For anyone unaware, the Boston Building is the historic building on the north side of Exchange Place, and it looks basically identical to the Newhouse Building on the south side. Again, this is all second-hand news, and could be grossly inaccurate:

Supposedly the Boston Building renovation has gone way, way over budget due to asbestos mitigation. There is some kind of problem with the lenders. The lenders have stopped making progress payments of some kind, so work is either halted, or greatly slowed. The building is completely vacant right now.

This, too, is a Hamilton Partners project. Hopefully it will get back on track.

Think good thoughts about Hamilton Partners, and maybe toss some loose change toward 222 when you walk by. Whatever their foibles, they've taken big risks and put up big money to improve downtown. They, along with the LDS Church, get gold stars for their willingness to invest in downtown.

[T-Mac]

The same tenants that were announced earlier to get the leased portion of the building up to around 30% are still on board was my understanding. Holland & Hart, CBRE and the other law firm will surely take 5 or 6 floors, I would imagine. The last I heard the lease rates were going to be in the range of $32 - $34 a square foot. This is extremely high, especially for this area. However, even if they do have to come down on the price, they can raise that price in the future as lease contracts expire, generally after 5 years.

Banks are having a very difficult time right now and are very nervous about lending money or even extending lines of credit to anyone. Being in public accounting, I have to deal with lenders all the time as they call to get information from me for my clients. In the last year, I have never seen them ask for more info than they are now. It used to be fine to just send them a letter on our letterhead and now they are doing all kinds of due diligence which they should have been doing in the past. Even after all that, they are still not wanting to loan out any money. On top of all that, I don't think that very many bankers out there even know how to read financial statements. As long as it clears off their checklist it's good to go.

[DMTower]

There is still almost a year before 222 south Main opens, I'm betting they will be just fine.