Hartsfield Jackson Atlanta International Airport - Page 9

Atlriser · #**161** Posted **Sep 14, 2006, 2:51 PM**

Andrea: I'm pulling most of this from memory over the past 5 years so don't let forumers jump on me if not absolutely correct but should give you the general idea:

The initial desing for the I-Terminal was 600,000 SF I believe. During the process of design, the city increased it to almost 1 million square feet and I believe was at 1.2 at the final parting of ways. They also added 6 more gates I think taking it from 10 to 16. The added all the equipment for each gate which at the time was over $20 million/gate. Also during the time of the initial cost estimates to the time of the final estiamtes, the cost of steel had increased over 100% because of the booming Chinese/Indian/Dubai construction activities that weren't occuring in such huge quantities 10 years ago. You can only imagine the amount of steel in the design. The city wanted huge open expansions with lots of sunlight....which is good but requires huge amounts of steel. Well when final construction costs were being hammered out the cost had gone from I believe 600 M to 1 B; however, if you will review most of the doumentation in the AJC and reported by the city....they never mention the huge amounts and additions the city requested. It's as if the city did no wrong and the design team did. Well, I'll say this...the design team in place probably has designed 80% of the world's airports over the past 20 years or so. It's not like they didn't know the process and how to do their job. That's my take.

D Concourse: No it's not complete. This is the kind of things delaying it now. Initially the bathroom exhaust systems were separated from the concourse air. The new design of HVAC removed this separation and went to an open plenum I believe. Well, the new bathrooms didn't include any exhaust fans so the air would be pumped back into the concourse....YUCK! So after we started closing up the ceilings, then the inspectors said wait where's the exhaust fans. They weren't designed initially into the new layout....that's the kind of crap you see out their on regular basis. Poor upfront planning and coordination. While I don't know for a fact, my previous experiences lead me to believe it's mainly the city's fault and also the airport always wanting to come in under budget to the council. E alone has had over $30 million in change orders over the original $70 million or so budgeted. The main contractors have always bid the projects as is because they always knew the airport would approve CO's without hesitation. Well now the council has started balking at so many changes and it's threw a wrench into the whole process....i'm not saying whether it's right or wrong I just know it's done backwards lots of time.

Then again, your dealing with such a huge budget, facility and number of contractors....I wouldn't want DeCosta's job for anything. It's only going to be a nightmare given the scale; however, things are short sighted overall which is typical of anything government run IMO!

Atlriser · #**162** Posted **Sep 14, 2006, 2:57 PM**

I don't remember the exact finishes changing because I've been working more on other projects until T was for sure, but the Stainless Steel is remaining and going throught the whole airport. That's part of what we've been doing. The flooring is all going to tile because the carpet just doesn't hold up long term and becoming to expensive to maintain because traffic counts are already ahead of estimates on the growth. I can't remember the finishes on E. Most of the work there was done behind the scenes to the baggage facilities and conveyor systems but much of it is changing I believe from the rumors.

Atlriser · #**163** Posted **Sep 14, 2006, 3:02 PM**

Another note on E and the way the city operates: The construction on E started last September and was to be complete by April/May. In March, the airport halted all work to redesign some things and the project team/contractors haven't worked there since March. We've been waiting on the airport since then and just got word this week that E would start back up during September. Well, I'm sure everyone is aware of how much construction materials have increased since last fall. The city balked about increased costs here as well after everyone on the team kept requesting updates and notifying the city of increasing costs.....we submitted monthly cost increase estimates trying to keep city officials updated and never heard anything all summer. Well, they haven't approved anything in writing but claim they are but also complaning about why it's costing more.....ROFLMAO!!! Hello, calling all idiots.....please answer city hall!

Referring to the intial design of E: The drawings initially sent out for proposals went through 6 MAJOR revisions by the time contracts were signed. While it's not unusual to have addendums and revisions...usually the docs sent for proposals will have maybe 10% (max) of the overall intent changed. When we pull drawings here it's been a pain to sometimes have to go through 6 pages of one room to see what's changed from the first plan to now. You can only imagine trying to do that for the whole E concourse layout. I would say the actual prints used in the field were 35 to 45% changed compared to the initial bid set regarding notes and installtion issues/wall types/systems so forth. The blame lies in both the initial design/city request and the architects and engineers, but once again, my gut tells me it was poor city oversight and short sighted decisions made by the city.

Considering we've had different architects and engineers for different parts of the work at the airport, the one common denominator is always the city.

ATLssMania · #**164** Posted **Sep 14, 2006, 9:27 PM**

Thanks for the replies! Most of the revisions seem "behind the scenes" that passengers would never see...the tile does make the Airport feel so much nicer..as well as new windows in some places too.
Please keep us updated on any cosmetic changes as you notice them...I enjoy reading them!

ATLonthebrain · #**165** Posted **Sep 19, 2006, 8:38 PM**

DeCosta: Jackson International Terminal project 'back on track'
Atlanta Business Chronicle - 7:45 AM EDT Tuesday

The Atlanta City Council has tapped a new joint venture group to design the Maynard H. Jackson International Terminal at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.

The new $8.5 million contract has been assigned to Gateway Designers, a joint venture between Gresham, Smith & Partners and Duckett Design Group for architectural and engineering services. The group will design the billion-dollar terminal named in honor of late Atlanta Mayor Maynard H. Jackson.

TDT, the original joint venture group comprised of Leo A. Daly Co., Khafra Engineering Consultants Inc., Anthony C. Baker Architects & Planners and Browder + LeGuizamon and Associates, was terminated Aug. 15, 2005 after failing to provide a design within the allotted budget for the project.

"We are pleased to get this important project back on track," said Ben DeCosta, Hartsfield-Jackson's general manager. "Our international passenger traffic has more than doubled since we hosted the 1996 Olympics, and we expect this trend to continue. At the world's busiest passenger airport it's critical that we remain focused on the future, creating world class facilities that will keep pace with demand."

DeCosta said the international terminal will be built and operational by late 2010 or early 2011. The new international terminal will also provide additional domestic gates, which are in high demand at the Atlanta airport.

Andrea · #**166** Posted **Sep 21, 2006, 12:52 PM**

Atlriser, thanks so very much for those insights on the airport process. I would never have known how all this worked (or doesn't work sometimes). Thanks again!

STrek777 · #**167** Posted **Sep 21, 2006, 1:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLonthebrain

DeCosta: Jackson International Terminal project 'back on track'
Atlanta Business Chronicle - 7:45 AM EDT Tuesday

The Atlanta City Council has tapped a new joint venture group to design the Maynard H. Jackson International Terminal at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.

The new $8.5 million contract has been assigned to Gateway Designers, a joint venture between Gresham, Smith & Partners and Duckett Design Group for architectural and engineering services. The group will design the billion-dollar terminal named in honor of late Atlanta Mayor Maynard H. Jackson.

TDT, the original joint venture group comprised of Leo A. Daly Co., Khafra Engineering Consultants Inc., Anthony C. Baker Architects & Planners and Browder + LeGuizamon and Associates, was terminated Aug. 15, 2005 after failing to provide a design within the allotted budget for the project.

"We are pleased to get this important project back on track," said Ben DeCosta, Hartsfield-Jackson's general manager. "Our international passenger traffic has more than doubled since we hosted the 1996 Olympics, and we expect this trend to continue. At the world's busiest passenger airport it's critical that we remain focused on the future, creating world class facilities that will keep pace with demand."

DeCosta said the international terminal will be built and operational by late 2010 or early 2011. The new international terminal will also provide additional domestic gates, which are in high demand at the Atlanta airport.

YEAH!!!! I am so happy this is finally getting underway

ThrashATL · #**168** Posted **Sep 21, 2006, 1:44 PM**

I can see Gresham, Smith & Partners doing airport design work but Duckett Design Group have no aviation track record (and a TRULY suckass website, like some out of the box software).

Tombstoner · #**169** Posted **Sep 21, 2006, 2:19 PM**

I hope this new terminal makes a classier, more contemporary architectural statement than the current terminal. I just got back from Asia and the new terminals in BKK, SIN, ICN, and HKG are light years ahead of what I see in the US (though I can't say I've been to any new terminals here...do we have any really spectacular ones that have come on-line recently?)

ATLonthebrain · #**170** Posted **Sep 21, 2006, 4:40 PM**

Tombstoner,

The more soaring and spectacular, the more costly, typically, all the way down to higher HVAC costs (for the tenants to pay) upon completion. These Asian countries have spent billions of dollars to create entirely new airports (many of which have nowhere near the extensive usage of ATL, but are planning for major growth), up to and including manmade islands to serve as the site. If they didn't include a terminal facility to provide that "wow factor" after such a significant overall investment, it would be a wasted/squandered opportunity. But all of that additional height through structural steel and glass carries with it added cost to the user (tenant). The degree to which ATL is willing to go is the question. At a cost of one billion dollars, I suspect it will make a strong enough statement in architectural quality, and also as it may be the last terminal constructed there for some time (depending upon when the South Terminal gets underway, and my guess is it's about a decade away).

For airlines to agree to finance terms for new terminal construction today, virtually all are looking for something that is economical and efficient, not over-the-top and wildly expensive to build. I know from firsthand experience. They want costs to be kept relatively low on a per passenger basis, starting with hard construction spending, especially in today's domestic economic climate. They don't want wasted or unused space in the design, because they are typically going to end up paying for it through their rates and charges. The more space that is dedicated to concessions, the better, as those are revenue generating operations. There are still very few airlines operating in the black today, and more than ever they fight airports at every turn when it comes to proposed expansion typically resulting in increases in costs.

The International Terminal @ SFO is striking, and a big departure from most in the US, I think. It is also a major US gateway. It could be its physical position more than anything, looming overhead as the portal to the entire horseshoe shaped terminal complex roadway. Passing under a monstrous building like that is very attention getting, almost impossible to miss, with the SAN FRANCISCO name sprawled across the front in a frosted and clear glass contrast. Terminal D @ DFW is very nice, but far more impressive beyond security than in the ticketing hall, in my opinion. The same goes for the new International Terminal @ IAH. That is going to be part of the design challenge in ATL, I think. How do we (the new team) create a design that makes a real statement of progress from what was designed and built with the original Midfield Terminal (though ATL has done wonders with the 26-year old facility through ongoing renovation and the addition of the Atrium). It may not end up being incredibly stunning, per se, but I think it will be a drastic improvement over what currently exists. And keep in mind that most of what exists today was designed well over 30 years ago. Times, and expectations, have changed in a big way since then.

If it comes even close to what was initially proposed and displayed in rendering and the videos, I think most of us will be happy with the debut in about 4yrs. And by then, it will be sorely needed, especially in light of DLs big ongoing International push. And as the article stated, these gates will be used for domestic flights also, since the vast majority of service to ATL will always be domestic. More swing gates like those in Concourse E will be a welcome addition, greatly increasing flexibility and overall capacity.

I'm flying through ATL in late Oct, and am looking forward to seeing more of the renovations progress then. The A & B Concourses were looking good, and I have heard the same is true for C & D. As I'm simply connecting, I won't get to see the Main Terminal (North & South) on this trip. If any forumers are there soon and can take some pics and post, that would be fantastic!

ATLonthebrain

Andrea · #**171** Posted **Sep 21, 2006, 4:47 PM**

I love the Atlanta airport and it is clearly the economic engine that drives this region. I also find it easy to use.

From the outside, however, it looks like a warehouse. But that's okay.

Buckley · #**172** Posted **Sep 21, 2006, 5:57 PM**

For the time being, I'm just happy they are sprucing up the interior. That carpet has seen better days.

Another airport I really liked was Ronald Reagan in DC. Lots of glass and very airy.

Tombstoner · #**173** Posted **Sep 21, 2006, 7:40 PM**

ATLonthebrain: You're right, of course, that the comparison with Asian terminals isn't completely fair, but I think design need not be expensive to be impressive. I got a sneak peak at Suvarnibhumi last week (it opens next week) and was struck more by the innovative use of volume than the quality/expense of the materials. Still, $1B doesn't buy what it used to

. But I hope you're right and that it will still make a statement. (as an aside, I've only recently spent some time in the Georgia World Congress complex, and think that it's a good example of a building that isn't extravagant -- it's even a bit boring -- but oddly stately).

Andrea: I agree with you that the airport is amazingly efficient. I know a lot of people complain about how difficult it is to use, but like you, I have no complaints considering how many passengers it has to accomodate. The warehouse part of it does bother me, however (call me shallow

)

Buckley: Yes, the carpet had to go. The industrial grey granite tiles aren't the most inviting, however. If you're gonna pop for granite, get something with a little pizzazz. Now that you mention it, Reagan is nice. Pretty small though.

Tombstoner · #**174** Posted **Sep 21, 2006, 7:41 PM**

posted twice...it wasn't that insightful

STrek777 · #**175** Posted **Nov 10, 2006, 6:27 PM**

Does anyone happen to have any air shots of the runway re-construction? Aslo Delta posts another profit, excluding reorganizational items. The new south treminal construction is well underway. Also I know that they announced that the airport has selttled with an architect and a price for the new terminal but does any one ahve any information on the specifics of the new international terminal and/or renderings?

ATLonthebrain · #**176** Posted **Nov 11, 2006, 1:39 AM**

The South Terminal construction isn't expected to begin this decade, as far as I know. The East (International) Terminal will probably get going in 2008, from the sound of things. I'd say when that is finished (2010-2011), the South Terminal will get underway. By the time that happens, expect a major redesign, because I think demand will be for more than a meager 31-gate facility. From the renderings on the webite, it looks like there will be room for at least one, perhaps two, linear concourses east of the site. So maybe room for a total of 100 additional gates. I'm not suggesting that they would be built at once, just that there is the ability to expand. Also keep in mind that the Consolidated Rental Car Center is also moving along, and that's a massive and expensive project. And the interior upgrades happening now are costing something like $500M. Big money for a big airport.

As for renderings of the East Terminal, it's way too soon for that. The City just approved the contract with the new architects. It'll probably be spring before we see anything substantial. I don't think it'll be too much like what was already created, or people will be asking what the hell the Airport was thinking in having a facility designed almost exactly as it had already been. Give it a few months, and we'll see something.

Happy the runway resurfacing is complete, and they're back at 5 parallels! Go ATL...

I flew through twice last month, while 8R-26L was still out of service, and I had virtually no problems whatsoever. The airport worked incredibly well. Great experience, and good service and performance on Delta.

ATLonthebrain

smArTaLlone · #**177** Posted **Nov 12, 2006, 7:37 PM**

I think what STrek777 saw was the construction for trains to the new rental car facility.

Harry Cane · #**178** Posted **Nov 14, 2006, 4:21 PM**

I came through the airport yesterday. Boy, the remodeling is really making progress. The floors look especially good. Much better than those 70s dark brown pavers. Coupled with the new carpeting in the gate areas and the new chairs Delta is putting in, it’s the nicest airport areas I’ve ever seen.

As extra icing on that travel cake, I got to fly on one of the redeployed Song 757’s. Boy, those are nice. The IFE was great. If it’s any indication of things to come, I’ll really enjoy flying Delta.

Harry Cane · #**179** Posted **Nov 14, 2006, 4:21 PM**

Deleted double post.

cactuspunk · #**180** Posted **Nov 14, 2006, 4:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Cane

I came through the airport yesterday. Boy, the remodeling is really making progress. The floors look especially good. Much better than those 70s dark brown pavers. Coupled with the new carpeting in the gate areas and the new chairs Delta is putting in, it’s the nicest airport areas I’ve ever seen.

As extra icing on that travel cake, I got to fly on one of the redeployed Song 757’s. Boy, those are nice. The IFE was great. If it’s any indication of things to come, I’ll really enjoy flying Delta.

Yeah it makes you wonder why Delta ever tried to create Song Airlines. Just fix up the original.