PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Specific areas aka categories we lag behind in. Think about it this way: the cost of living has shot way up here but is Philly a hot nightlife spot? Became a 24/7 town? Are we seeing a major reinvention? A building boom? How are the schools? Trash situation any better? Infrastructure? Outside of the cost I stand firm that the area is basically still the same ol' same ol' and you aren't getting some of the byproducts you do and should when an area becomes the hot/it market. Maybe the people with deep roots like this (minus the costs) but for the new movers and shakers, this won't be suitable for too long.

I'm confused with this... The city itself hasn't seen the same run-up in prices as much of the suburbs, at least not beyond normal year-over-year appreciation. Outside of Greater Center City and a handful of other neighborhoods, Philadelphia still remains largely affordable.

I was largely referring to the suburbs, which is why I shared the article in the metro thread. The four-county suburban region is generally quite prosperous and for a long time, was arguably undervalued, and the market has corrected over the past five years. Also, the four-county suburban region for the most part offers good/great schools, strong employment opportunities, quality public services, and a high quality of life. It's not like we're talking about Johnstown, PA.

So what am I missing?

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by mja

I've mainly just lurked here since forever, but for pretty much as long as I've done so you've seemed to express some nebulous complaint with regards to housing in the city / region. I'm not sure I've ever really understood what your point actually is, beyond that housing has gotten more expensive and that's bad.

You have this impression because what these threads are is this area is the center of the universe and every project is amazing and anyone who disagrees or offers a different perspective is a "Negladelphian" (and I am really glad you came out of the shadows for this btw). I find the Philly metro to be middle of the road, okay in a lot of respects with a lot to offer but there are still a decent amount of drawbacks. I will use the car analogy: a car can be a great car at $30K but that same car not so much at $50K.

Looking at your posts on the thread, I'm reminded of the Yogi Berra quip: "No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded." Are you arguing that average Joe is being priced out and that the new clientele is going to peace out once they see how shitty services actually are here, and then leave the city / region in the lurch? Or are you arguing that the new clientele is going to irrevocably change the character of the city / region, and that it will all be sterile and inauthentic?

What specifically do you think needs to be done?

I am not sure what is hard to follow but expensive should = you get something for the money. In the past this place being a bargain is what caused people to shrug at the shortcomings. Now start being mentioned with DC, SF, etc., and will one still do the shrug? This can be a subjective thing but what makes a city/area interesting as it heats up and prices rise is kind of standing still here (or maybe more fairly, barely moving).

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

I'm confused with this... The city itself hasn't seen the same run-up in prices as much of the suburbs, at least not beyond normal year-over-year appreciation. Outside of Greater Center City and a handful of other neighborhoods, Philadelphia still remains largely affordable.

I was largely referring to the suburbs, which is why I shared the article in the metro thread. The four-county suburban region is generally quite prosperous and for a long time, was arguably undervalued, and the market has corrected over the past five years. Also, the four-county suburban region for the most part offers good/great schools, strong employment opportunities, quality public services, and a high quality of life. It's not like we're talking about Johnstown, PA.

So what am I missing?

My point? Philly is the draw and why people move to inner ring 'burbs (mostly) and a main focal point of the area but I'll just go back to my earlier example: is Conshy a million dollar town? Further out, how about New Hope? I think that we are at the tipping point because yes they are decent enough but there is nothing super special there yet and I would even argue many of these places are still missing the "there", which I expect to see once prices hit a certain point.

[mja]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

You have this impression because what these threads are is this area is the center of the universe and every project is amazing and anyone who disagrees or offers a different perspective is a "Negladelphian" (and I am really glad you came out of the shadows for this btw). I find the Philly metro to be middle of the road, okay in a lot of respects with a lot to offer but there are still a decent amount of drawbacks. I will use the car analogy: a car can be a great car at $30K but that same car not so much at $50K.

I'm not talking about mindless boosterism or nega-anything. I'm just trying to pin down what you are actually saying.

The "car" is overpriced. Concretely, what is your concern there, if people are indeed paying sticker? Are you worried longtime local middle class folks are being priced out, and if so, is it because it will fundamentally change the character of the city / region, or is it that the buyers pushing prices upwards will eventually abandon the city / region once they realize they're not getting all of the features they thought they were? Or something else altogether? What are the concrete ramifications of housing getting more expensive? What are the potential negative impacts?

What's more, concretely, what do you think needs to be done? What policy changes? You talk about a need for planning. Great, could you lay out for me what you think that might entail?

None of this is meant as any kind of gotcha. I'm just trying to understand, because frankly, expensive should = you get something for the money isn't really a point, it's more a collection of sentiments and thoughts in a trench coat masquerading as a point.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

My point? Philly is the draw and why people move to inner ring 'burbs (mostly) and a main focal point of the area but I'll just go back to my earlier example: is Conshy a million dollar town? Further out, how about New Hope? I think that we are at the tipping point because yes they are decent enough but there is nothing super special there yet and I would even argue many of these places are still missing the "there", which I expect to see once prices hit a certain point.

I am not sure what is hard to follow but expensive should = you get something for the money. In the past this place being a bargain is what caused people to shrug at the shortcomings. Now start being mentioned with DC, SF, etc., and will one still do the shrug? This can be a subjective thing but what makes a city/area interesting as it heats up and prices rise is kind of standing still here (or maybe more fairly, barely moving).
.

But who is mentioning the Philly area with San Fran, DC, etc.? And what specifically is not super special about Conshohocken (in which the average price home is under $500k) or New Hope?

For the record:
The average price home in San Francisco Bay Area is $1.5M.
The average price home in Washington DC Metro is ~$675k.
The average price home in the Philadelphia metro is ~$400k. Even Chester County, the regions most expensive county is still more affordable by a good margin than the most affluent counties outside of DC, Boston, NYC.

So by your logic, whatever shortcomings the region has are still reflected in the fact that it offers a significant price advantage to San Fran, Boston, New York, DC, LA.

The Philadelphia housing market is more comparable to regions like Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston. With that in mind, I'm struggling to see how the Philadelphia region isn't broadly on par with those metros in terms of schools, employment, amenities, affluence, and overall quality of life.

Anyway, I won't belabor the point. I'm just trying to understand the crux of your argument.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

But who is mentioning the Philly area with San Fran, DC, etc.? And what specifically is not super special about Conshohocken (in which the average price home is under $500k) or New Hope?

For the record:
The average price home in San Francisco Bay Area is $1.5M.
The average price home in Washington DC Metro is ~$675k.
The average price home in the Philadelphia metro is ~$400k. Even Chester County, the regions most expensive county is still more affordable by a good margin than the most affluent counties outside of DC, Boston, NYC.

So by your logic, whatever shortcomings the region has are still reflected in the fact that it offers a significant price advantage to San Fran, Boston, New York, DC, LA.

The Philadelphia housing market is more comparable to regions like Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston. With that in mind, I'm struggling to see how the Philadelphia region isn't broadly on par with those metros in terms of schools, employment, amenities, affluence, and overall quality of life.

Anyway, I won't belabor the point. I'm just trying to understand the crux of your argument.

My gut is he thinks a solidly middle class family should be able to afford to live in the nicest house in any given town, which is simply not how it works.

Add to that, just to be clear, the Plymouth Whitemarsh Schools are stellar, not just by suburban Philly standards but by national standards. By all accounts, a home in the PW School district should be an A tier product.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by mja

None of this is meant as any kind of gotcha. I'm just trying to understand, because frankly, expensive should = you get something for the money isn't really a point, it's more a collection of sentiments and thoughts in a trench coat masquerading as a point.

"Lurked", "trench coat", I need to keep an eye on you But it's my point whether you like it or not, and I think we have reached the point where the area may no longer be worth the money and I am saying "tipping point" because if things don't change interest is going to cool off dramatically.

I would like to see public transit, housing supply, infrastructure, state municipality and funding, emergency services, etc., etc. addressed. The same things we all want to see addressed and PA is still backwards and behind the times in a lot of areas. In addition, I am just not seeing the "oomph" increasing that you can see when an area becomes hot...the area is still kind of sleepy. The pandemic can be blamed for some of this but by now it's less of an excuse.

And re: some of your other questions I want the character of the area to change because its culture is still kind of low brow and far too many people are still tossing garbage out the windows and we can do better. I am slowly seeing a shift so that's good.

or is it that the buyers pushing prices upwards will eventually abandon the city / region once they realize they're not getting all of the features they thought they were?

Yes. Once they get to experience the shortcomings and if not addressed year after year why would you pay big money for that? The world is very competitive and I am saying we need to get off our asses and actually fix things, strike while the iron is hot. Like a fast food meal they got away with poorer quality because the meal was $5.00. Now that it is $15.00 people are saying hey wait a minute, I can pay this but get better.

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

But who is mentioning the Philly area with San Fran, DC, etc.? And what specifically is not super special about Conshohocken (which is not a million dollar town) or New Hope?

Yes, Conshy now is and has been for about a year+ now:
https://morethanthecurve.com/three-riverfront-homes-in-conshohocken-go-for-more-than-1-million/
https://morethanthecurve.com/third-home-...ince-may-in-the-borough-of-conshohocken/
https://morethanthecurve.com/real-estate...iv1LHO8w0Nhoo_aem_aY771i8j8YEOSnao-Olkpw

And the article you posted did and we are now appearing on lists with these other players so the game has clearly changed.

Just ponder this question: is the Philly area hot right now mostly on its own merits or is it mostly because it's close to NYC?

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

My gut is he thinks a solidly middle class family should be able to afford to live in the nicest house in any given town, which is simply not how it works.

Nope, but it would be nice if they had at least some options in these just okay areas and it wasn't rapidly eroding. Using your example, Plymouth Twp. is worth the money it is commanding now? And if so, for the long haul?

Add to that, just to be clear, the Plymouth Whitemarsh Schools are stellar, not just by suburban Philly standards but by national standards. By all accounts, a home in the PW School district should be an A tier product.

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Just ponder this question: is the Philly area hot right now mostly on its own merits or is it mostly because it's close to NYC?

I'm not trying to pile on here, but I'm going to respectfully suggest you haven't lived in another major metro area. You really don't seem to have a grasp about how hyper-inflated prices are in the rest of the US relative to their offerings (or lack thereof).

I've lived in 2 others (Boston and DC), and have spent plenty of time in metro NYC, during substantial part of my adult life, I absolutely believe the Philly area is still very undervalued. There's absolutely no reason for there to be, maybe, more than a 10% price differential between the Philly, NYC, DC and Boston areas relative to their city condition, quality-of-life, culture, and overall suburb quality. Because the price differential isn't based on quality; it's based only on jobs. In any large metro area, here's the basic premise: People aren't necessarily paying for top dollar for the towns themselves: they're paying for access to top-paying jobs. For example, look at San Jose, CA. I can't think of a more absurdly expensive ho-hum large city in the US.

If anything, I think the average suburb of Philly is actually much more balanced in terms of development, is more aesthetically-pleasing due to an exceptionally good mix between modern and historic housing, stricter zoning/open space requirements, combined with the amenity offerings. This is compared anywhere else in the Northeast Corridor. Boston comes closest to the Philly area balance, but you would be absolutely floored by what people pay for a run-of-the-mill neighborhood in the area.

This is not necessarily about you being a "Negadelphian" (I think you offer some valid criticisms about needed improvements). But your perspective of other regions magically having their "shit together" is laughably false, or that the Philly area doesn't have an enormous amount of assets to justify its recent cost increases.

Basically, you're suffering from some "grass is greener" syndrome. But the more I see of the country (and the increasingly abysmal shape it's in), the more I realize the Philadelphia area still truly remains the best bargain the US, by far.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

I'm not trying to pile on here, but I'm going to respectfully suggest you haven't lived in another major metro area. You really don't seem to have a grasp about how hyper-inflated prices are in the rest of the US relative to their offerings (or lack thereof).

That's okay join the pile, I am used to it You are incorrect.

If anything, I think the average suburb of Philly is actually much more balanced in terms of development, is more aesthetically-pleasing due ta good balance between modern and historic housing, stricter zoning/open space requirements, and amenity offerings than anywhere else in the Northeast Corridor.

Boston comes closest to the Philly area balance, but you would be absolutely floored by what people pay for a run-of-the-mill town in the area.

No I wouldn't be because I am familiar and I have the same take: not worth it.

In any large metro area, here's the basic premise: People aren't necessarily paying for top dollar for the towns themselves: they're paying for access to top-paying jobs.

And where are the salaries here still? How do we stack up against other costly areas?

This is not necessarily about you being a "Negadelphian" (I think you offer some valid criticisms about needed improvements, but your perspective of other regions magically having their "shit together" is laughably false, or that the Philly area doesn't have an enormous amount of assets to justify its cost increase.

Never said that. But you cannot argue that PA at a local and state level is not top dog in the US when it comes to being functional.

Basically, you're suffering from some "grass is greener" syndrome. But the more I see of the country (and the increasingly abysmal shape its in) the more I realize the Philadelphia area truly remains the best bargain the US, by far.

Nope. I am talking about this area specifically. Many here keep wanting to do this "Yeah but look over there!" sleight of hand trick. "Sure we have trash and problems, but have you ever been to Afghanistan?!" You can always find better, always find worse.

It's odd that my underlying theme of hey let's address the issues, strike while the iron is hot, get cooler, and make an effort to retain transplants long-term is a controversial take and means I don't know what I am talking about, haven't lived anywhere else...

[mja]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

I think we have reached the point where the area may no longer be worth the money and I am saying "tipping point" because if things don't change interest is going to cool off dramatically.

I would like to see public transit, housing supply, infrastructure, state municipality and funding, emergency services, etc., etc. addressed. The same things we all want to see addressed and PA is still backwards and behind the times in a lot of areas. In addition, I am just not seeing the "oomph" increasing that you can see when an area becomes hot...the area is still kind of sleepy. The pandemic can be blamed for some of this but by now it's less of an excuse.

And re: some of your other questions I want the character of the area to change because its culture is still kind of low brow and far too many people are still tossing garbage out the windows and we can do better. I am slowly seeing a shift so that's good.

Yes. Once they get to experience the shortcomings and if not addressed year after year why would you pay big money for that? The world is very competitive and I am saying we need to get off our asses and actually fix things, strike while the iron is hot. Like a fast food meal they got away with poorer quality because the meal was $5.00. Now that it is $15.00 people are saying hey wait a minute, I can pay this but get better.

Finally, we're getting somewhere on this. So, in the end, your position is that rising prices would potentially represent a good thing but that QOL stuff isn't improving at a commensurate level and eventually demand will crater as a result, with potentially nasty consequences for the city / region. What do you think is driving prices higher, then, if not simply market demand? If it is market demand driving prices higher, wouldn't that suggest that the current state of QOL isn't in fact a drag?

And what do you think would happen with these new residents driving up prices when they discover that QOL stuff isn't up to snuff? They'll cash out for little to no gain just to buy vastly more expensive smaller homes in more desirable metros?

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Yes, Conshy now is and has been for about a year+ now: https://morethanthecurve.com/three-riverfront-homes-in-conshohocken-go-for-more-than-1-million/
https://morethanthecurve.com/third-home-...ince-may-in-the-borough-of-conshohocken/
https://morethanthecurve.com/real-estate...iv1LHO8w0Nhoo_aem_aY771i8j8YEOSnao-Olkpw

And the article you posted did and we are now appearing on lists with these other players so the game has clearly changed.

Just ponder this question: is the Philly area hot right now mostly on its own merits or is it mostly because it's close to NYC?

The median home price in Conshy is like 500K. A handful of million-dollar listings doesn't particularly mean anything. A million dollars doesn't really mean anything either, btw, it's just a nice round number that historically has signified wealth. Increasingly, it just signifies middle class.

As for proximity to NYC being a driver on prices? Yes, I think we all agree on that, but that is actually one of the area's merits, no?

[PHLtoNYC]

^
In addition to the point that Conshohocken isn't a "million-dollar town" (meaning the average home price exceeds $1 million, a distinction still reserved for only a handful of Philadelphia suburbs, mostly along the Main Line), the article I posted also includes places like Newark, Milwaukee, Oakland, and New Brunswick.

Yes, the Philadelphia suburbs have become more expensive in a short period, but there's still a distinction between being the most expensive and being the most competitive.

Anyways, I'll move on.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by mja

Finally, we're getting somewhere on this.

Yeah because apparently me reiterating the same thing post after post wasn't enough I have shared my thoughts ad nauseam at this point. You all disagree and not only are some of you saying you will pay current prices, you will pay even more because the area is just that cool to you. I am not in that camp and my thoughts are neither are many of those who are plopping here unless other things rise along with the prices. We will see how things pan out in 3-5 years and if I am wrong, will gladly acknowledge it.

In other news, the Exton Square Mall is gone forever in a few days

https://6abc.com/post/exton-mall-close-5-decades-west-whiteland-township-chester-county/19386798/

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

I am not sure what is hard to follow but expensive should = you get something for the money. In the past this place being a bargain is what caused people to shrug at the shortcomings. Now start being mentioned with DC, SF, etc., and will one still do the shrug? This can be a subjective thing but what makes a city/area interesting as it heats up and prices rise is kind of standing still here (or maybe more fairly, barely moving).

Who cares about DC. A stacked townhome condo in Fairfax County VA is a million dollars. Nowhere around here is anything approaching that.

Let's instead talk about Nashville. The average home price in Williamson County TN (the equivalent of Chester County) is $925K. The average home price in the secondary suburban counties of Nashville are well north of $500k. Places where you'll mingle with trailer parks and white trash.

My point? Philly is the draw and why people move to inner ring 'burbs (mostly) and a main focal point of the area but I'll just go back to my earlier example: is Conshy a million dollar town? Further out, how about New Hope? I think that we are at the tipping point because yes they are decent enough but there is nothing super special there yet and I would even argue many of these places are still missing the "there", which I expect to see once prices hit a certain point.

I guess this is where I'm confused. There are no inner ring burbs in any of these boom towns that are even remotely affordable. The in town suburban areas (the closest thing to an inner ring burb in Philadelphia) in Dallas and Nashville and even Houston literally make the prices on the Main Line look like child's play. A house across the street from my Ex's on Chickering Road in Nashville's Belle Meade neighborhood sold for $38 MILLION dollars last year. That's "inner ring" for Nashville. You still need a car but driving distance you're 10-15 minutes from downtown. The average home price in Belle Meade (which is no nicer than any part of the north side of Lancaster Avenue) is approaching $5MM. Nothing on the Main Line is approaching those price points. Maybe a single extravagant home here or there, but AVERAGE? No. In Brentwood, another in town-ish neighborhood where the houses are frankly builders grade McMansions from the 1990s (sorta akin to a Garnet Valley here), the average home price is $1.4MM.

I mean I just think you're on another planet with your expectations and your comparisons. There is no such thing as inner ring affordable in most sunbelt cities. If anything, they sell for even more of a premium there because there is no transit very little walkability so even more pressure to be anywhere remotely urban for a SFH or proper townhome.

[Raja]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I guess this is where I'm confused. There are no inner ring burbs in any of these boom towns that are even remotely affordable. The in town suburban areas (the closest thing to an inner ring burb in Philadelphia) in Dallas and Nashville and even Houston literally make the prices on the Main Line look like child's play. A house across the street from my Ex's on Chickering Road in Nashville's Belle Meade neighborhood sold for $38 MILLION dollars last year. That's "inner ring" for Nashville. You still need a car but driving distance you're 10-15 minutes from downtown. The average home price in Belle Meade (which is no nicer than any part of the north side of Lancaster Avenue) is approaching $5MM. Nothing on the Main Line is approaching those price points. Maybe a single extravagant home here or there, but AVERAGE? No. In Brentwood, another in town-ish neighborhood where the houses are frankly builders grade McMansions from the 1990s (sorta akin to a Garnet Valley here), the average home price is $1.4MM.

I mean I just think you're on another planet with your expectations and your comparisons. There is no such thing as inner ring affordable in most sunbelt cities. If anything, they sell for even more of a premium there because there is no transit very little walkability so even more pressure to be anywhere remotely urban for a SFH or proper townhome.

This is where I'm confused too. Adding a sunbelt city I'm familiar with, meh homes in the nice-ish parts of inner loop Houston are $3 million minimum. They also blow the main line out of the water in terms of price for what you get.

I understand the complaints about Philadelphia, but the reality is this area is still extremely affordable in relative terms.

[mja]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Yeah because apparently me reiterating the same thing post after post wasn't enough I have shared my thoughts ad nauseam at this point. You all disagree and not only are some of you saying you will pay current prices, you will pay even more because the area is just that cool to you. I am not in that camp and my thoughts are neither are many of those who are plopping here unless other things rise along with the prices. We will see how things pan out in 3-5 years and if I am wrong, will gladly acknowledge it.

Saying expensive = should get you more doesn't actually say anything, and whenever anyone asks you to get specific, detailed, or concrete, you duck responding with any kind of substance and instead reiterate the same half-baked thought that doesn't actually say anything. You assume that people are coming at you because you're providing a "balancing" alternate viewpoint from the mainstream here and they can't handle it, but all anyone is really looking for is some substance.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Raja

They also blow the main line out of the water in terms of price for what you get.

Yeah it's not a good comparison to me.

I understand the complaints about Philadelphia, but the reality is this area is still extremely affordable in relative terms.

Yes, but my opinion is we are now right at the ramp to jump the shark.

Originally Posted by mja

Saying expensive = should get you more doesn't actually say anything, and whenever anyone asks you to get specific, detailed, or concrete, you duck responding with any kind of substance and instead reiterate the same half-baked thought that doesn't actually say anything. You assume that people are coming at you because you're providing a "balancing" alternate viewpoint from the mainstream here and they can't handle it, but all anyone is really looking for is some substance.

It says everything, you just don't like it and, "Nuh uh you are half-baked and wrong!" isn't any sort of an argument to me here, as I am not changing my stance and my opinion stands that this area is fine at $300K. At $700K and bidding wars and waiving inspections and yadda yadda now I am thinking eh, maybe not so much. If prices continue to climb and if things stay the same or barely move while other places also move and evolve, my stance is others who are coming here from elsewhere will be thinking twice over time. The Philly area being on the map and in these discussions is uncharted territory and as quickly as it came is as quickly as it can leave. My concrete point is and has been this area has pretty much remained the same as prices climb. I have seen nothing of substance get better and in some ways actually get worse, that is not supposed to be the formula. Infrastructure is still struggling, schools can depend on what side of the street you are on, the area has not evolved its nightlife or in the things to do category all that much... I keep saying "tipping point" because now people are stopping and putting much thought into their futures here, that wasn't as hot of a topic as it was before.

This was all well and good when locals were mostly driving things, as they can have a "Philly blindness", which is perfectly understandable when one is born and raised somewhere like here. Now that the market is heating up because of people from elsewhere, a lot of this goofiness is just not going to keep flying. Many on here bash sunbelt cities because they don't like the way they look and function but put that aside for a second and look at some of the reasons why they are hot, we just haven't been seeing the evolving and reinvention yet you should during a "boom" and I have seen zero roadmap so far that says that we will be (and I would love to be wrong here one day btw).

[Justin7]

People keep trying to figure out where you're coming from and what exactly you're trying to say because it doesn't make any sense. You seem to be under the impression the Philly is an "it" city and experiencing a boom, when the reality is that the price of housing has risen dramatically virtually everywhere over the past decade. This is a national problem and it's something you pretty much can't avoid reading about if you pay any attention to the news.

People continue to provide you with examples that you dismiss as bad comparisons but you refuse to provide any examples of your own. Can you do that? I'm pretty sure you've been complaining about the same things for years but never provide any substance.

I'm not even defending Philadelphia. The city government is a mess. We don't spend our money wisely. There are uncountable examples of waste, political patronage, misspent funds, and corruption and none of it ever seems to improve. Yes, it's depressing. Yes, this city could and should be better.

None of that changes the fact that by any objective measurement, this is still a relatively affordable place to live. Since you care enough to continually jump into threads to state otherwise, why do you not care enough to provide some comparisons? I mean, spend five minutes on Redfin/Zillow/whatever and just share some links. It shouldn't be hard.

[UrbanRevival]

Not a huge project, but I love to see this kind of infill on legacy suburban Main Streets. Good for Jenkintown.

40 new apartments are coming to Jenkintown at the site of the former Helweg funeral home
by Jess Rohan | Published July 2, 2026, 6:01 a.m. ET

Plans for the new building, which will sit at the intersection of Route 611 and Cherry Street across from Dunkin’, also include a ground-floor commercial space and a parking garage with 48 spaces.

Construction is underway on a mixed-use apartment building facing York Road in Jenkintown. Plans for the new building, which will sit at the intersection of Route 611 and Cherry Street across from Dunkin’, include 40 apartments and a ground-floor commercial space.

The four-story structure also includes a parking garage with 48 spaces. Eight of those will be reserved for the retailer, developer and owner Vincent Celenza said.

https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate/hou...tments-helweg-funeral-home-20260702.html

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Justin7

People keep trying to figure out where you're coming from and what exactly you're trying to say because it doesn't make any sense. You seem to be under the impression the Philly is an "it" city and experiencing a boom, when the reality is that the price of housing has risen dramatically virtually everywhere over the past decade. This is a national problem and it's something you pretty much can't avoid reading about if you pay any attention to the news.

People continue to provide you with examples that you dismiss as bad comparisons but you refuse to provide any examples of your own. Can you do that? I'm pretty sure you've been complaining about the same things for years but never provide any substance.

I'm not even defending Philadelphia. The city government is a mess. We don't spend our money wisely. There are uncountable examples of waste, political patronage, misspent funds, and corruption and none of it ever seems to improve. Yes, it's depressing. Yes, this city could and should be better.

None of that changes the fact that by any objective measurement, this is still a relatively affordable place to live. Since you care enough to continually jump into threads to state otherwise, why do you not care enough to provide some comparisons? I mean, spend five minutes on Redfin/Zillow/whatever and just share some links. It shouldn't be hard.

Hilarious that the regular suburb bashers around here who call them soulless, boring, full of NIMBYs, dull, etc., etc., are now supporting they are so amazing and unique that they should be commanding these prices. Needless to say if I would come on here and say the opposite of what I am saying now and they are amazing and wonderful the same characters would be coming at me and saying they are not and I'm, "On another planet."

I was talking about the 'burbs and metro area, not the city. The problem is the city is just not an option for a lot of people for various reasons so the bargains aren't going to be on the radars. Also, we can make a few comparisons to the rest of the country but our situation is unique as well:

- We have had a supply problem for a while and even more so now.
- PA just does not function like other states do.
- The Philly area being on the map like this is relatively new.
- We were not functioning well with the people and growth we had, throw more on top of it with no plan and it's a problem.

this is still a relatively affordable place to live.

Right, hence why I have been saying "tipping point" for pages now.

Nah you can look up prices if you are curious (which are rapidly cooling here btw so maybe just maybe I am on to something). My opinion still stands that places like Conshy, etc. being as high as they have become is wild to me and the cost to value is just not there, anyone not familiar with these areas who moves in thinking as such are going to find this over time unless some big changes happen along with all of this.

[PHLtoNYC]

Interesting article about Media's comprehensive plan.
There are still sizable developable plots in Media Borough that could support mid-size projects. The last sizable residential addition to the borough was the West End Flat, which opened in 2018. Media/Middletown, like most suburbs, has NIMBY challenges. The only new residential construction since 2018 has been expensive SFH's, a few twins, and flips. (Some familiar with Media may remember how long it took a 4-story Hampton Inn to be built at 252 & Baltimore Pike...).

Here is a plot walking distance to Media Station could support a 4-5-story apartment building. Yet if a proposal ever up, you bet nearby residents would lose their s*it... whether its affordable or market rate.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Media,..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDYyOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

That being said, I would love to see Media fill out more on its main arteries.

What will Media look like in 2035? The borough is planning for diversified housing options, safer streets, and more retail
https://www.inquirer.com/news/pennsylvan...-plan-growth-affordability-20260706.html

The 166-page plan, built on feedback from around 500 residents, is centered around four guiding principles: Preserving Media’s character, fostering inclusivity through housing diversity, preserving the environment, and becoming a more connected and less car-dependent borough.

As demand for walkable, transit-accessible living has surged in the Philly region, rising real estate costs are chipping away at this accessibility, creating a “severe burden” for a large segment of Media, notably seniors, teachers, nurses, and first responders, the plan states.

Media has strong transit access but ample traffic safety challenges

Residents love Media’s dining scene, but want more retail options