[Halifax] Skye Halifax (1565 Granville) | 66 m | 2 x 21 fl | U/C

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Good luck with that.

Wassamaddafayou?!

Doesn’t hurt to toss it out there. Wouldn’t you like to see something cool like that? I fully expect to see a collection of buildings with multiple types of cladding, though. No unrealistic expectations here.

[Musicman Halifax]

[QUOTE=Dartguard;10568229]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

The ramparts bylaws might have made sense 50 years ago, but that ship has sailed. Nobody’s going to the Citadel for a view of the harbour anymore, and frankly nobody will care if they see some buildings from within the fort.



In that vein Mark I wonder what the top out of the new Hospital will do for view planes from the West. Hospital floors tend to be taller than commercial or residential.

Floors in hospitals tend to be in the 15 foot range between plates….. this would mean this 14 story hospital would be roughly the height of a 23 story resi building give or take. Saying this the podium plates look well above 15 feet.

[someone123]

I think the views from the Citadel including of the city area great. It has always been in the middle of the city (or town originally) and was never some kind of unspoiled wilderness view of the surroundings. I find the ramparts rules partly redundant due to the viewplanes. Views of George's, etc. are much more significant than a view of only 70s Scotia Square buildings.

One philosophical failure of the NIMBY and anti-city people is that I don't think they conceive of the city itself being attractive. There isn't enough emphasis on what kind of architecture could be built to enhance these views. These would be signature towers with good architecture, or ornamentations like the spires and cupolas that have been stripped off of so many buildings in Halifax. The NFB Building originally had a decorative spire but it wouldn't be allowed today. With Salter's Gate the dome was scaled back because of a trade-off between ornamentation and buildable square footage; ornamentation for the public good will always lose out.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I’m not sure what it’s all about, actually. Our opinions differ on how great the views are, but that might be due to my comparison of the current views to those I experienced in the 1970s and 80s.

I don’t think it’s an important point, though. I think the key point is what price are we willing to pay to maintain these “great views”? So far “we” have been willing to compromise the development of our downtown. IMHO it’s important that we revisit this mindset to evaluate whether it’s still all that important. Everyone goes all heritage over the Citadel, and while it is an important part of our city’s history, it seems to be the only one, other than perhaps Province House, that anyone really cares about. It’s a bit of an oddity of conflicting views in such a historical city.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

One philosophical failure of the NIMBY and anti-city people is that I don't think they conceive of the city itself being attractive. There isn't enough emphasis on what kind of architecture could be built to enhance these views. These would be signature towers with good architecture, or ornamentations like the spires and cupolas that have been stripped off of so many buildings in Halifax. The NFB Building originally had a decorative spire but it wouldn't be allowed today. With Salter's Gate the dome was scaled back because of a trade-off between ornamentation and buildable square footage; ornamentation for the public good will always lose out.

No worries, we are renowned worldwide as master of the 7-storey box apartment now.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

No worries, we are renowned worldwide as master of the 7-storey box apartment now.

I know you're just stirring the pot but seriously, have you been to Athens, Greece? There you'll find seemingly endless blocks of simple stacked concrete slab buildings of about seven stories that should suck the soul right out of you. I say 'should' because their streets are lively despite the dreadful architecture due to, I think, the multitude of shops and services that line the streets.

[IanWatson]

To be clear: the view planes and the ramparts rules are two different things. View planes are specific protected views from various points on the battlements. In contrast, the ramparts rule basically says you shouldn’t be able to see modern development from within Parade Square.

I actually like the view planes - they shape the skyline in interesting ways, and in addition to creating views from Citadel Hill they make it so you can see Citadel Hill from various points around town. In other words, they’re a benefit to everyone whether you visit the Citadel or not.

The ramparts rules, on the other hand, are just stupid. As previously noted, you can see Scotia Square from within Parade Square already. And we’re placing limits on all development downtown just to preserve the illusion for visitors to Citadel Hill??? That’s wild to me.

[new2halifax]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

The ramparts rules, on the other hand, are just stupid. As previously noted, you can see Scotia Square from within Parade Square already. And we’re placing limits on all development downtown just to preserve the illusion for visitors to Citadel Hill??? That’s wild to me.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by new2halifax

Agree as well. But, it's all arbitrary, anyway, isn't it?

A small group has placed a higher value on their opinion versus the right to build close to the core.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

No worries, we are renowned worldwide as master of the 7-storey box apartment now.

My only hope is that enough of those get built to achieve serious density and then the big ones get built.

[Jstaleness]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

My only hope is that enough of those get built to achieve serious density and then the big ones get built.

Here Here!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

No worries, we are renowned worldwide as master of the 7-storey box apartment now.

Is seven storeys the limit where stricter fire regulations kick-in in Nova Scotia?

In NB, the limit is six storeys. I can't tell you how many six storey apartment buildings have been built in Moncton over the last 10-12 years. It's getting a little boring, repetitive and monotonous............

[Empire]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

To be clear: the view planes and the ramparts rules are two different things. View planes are specific protected views from various points on the battlements. In contrast, the ramparts rule basically says you shouldn’t be able to see modern development from within Parade Square.

I actually like the view planes - they shape the skyline in interesting ways, and in addition to creating views from Citadel Hill they make it so you can see Citadel Hill from various points around town. In other words, they’re a benefit to everyone whether you visit the Citadel or not.

The ramparts rules, on the other hand, are just stupid. As previously noted, you can see Scotia Square from within Parade Square already. And we’re placing limits on all development downtown just to preserve the illusion for visitors to Citadel Hill??? That’s wild to me.

The view plane legislation in theory is good. In practice, in my opinion it has failed. Most of the views of the harbour that were intended to be protected from the citadel, are now blocked. In some cases, the views are blocked by only a couple of storeys of mediocre buildings. The result is a repetitive tabletop skyline of uninspiring buildings. Sightlines down streets to the harbour remain but most of the harbour view is now gone. A better approach would have been to allow taller narrower buildings.
The rampart viewplane serves no apparent benefit. 99% of people don’t know it exists and if one walks on the upper ramparts there is no shortage of buildings in sight.
- Scrap the rampart viewplane.
- Protect any remaining view of the harbour.
- Allow taller buildings in sightlines where the harbour has already been blocked.
- If a historic atmosphere is the goal at the citadel, then replace the 1950's guardrail with a period wrought iron rail.

[kzt79]

In typical Halifax / NS fashion it's like we somehow actively seek (and achieve) the worst of all worlds, in this instance blocking most of the views by just a few storeys.

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by Empire

The view plane legislation in theory is good. In practice, in my opinion it has failed. Most of the views of the harbour that were intended to be protected from the citadel, are now blocked.

All of the protected viewplanes remain unobstructed. HRM has, over the years, been very diligent about this (some may recall the drama with Fenwick Tower's proposed renovation that would be a few inches into the viewplane). The city has grown up in the spaces between the viewplanes. And yes, in the areas outside of the viewplanes the buildings are of a pretty consistent height, but that's due to height limits - nothing to do with the viewplanes themselves.

[JET]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

To be clear: the view planes and the ramparts rules are two different things. View planes are specific protected views from various points on the battlements. In contrast, the ramparts rule basically says you shouldn’t be able to see modern development from within Parade Square.

I actually like the view planes - they shape the skyline in interesting ways, and in addition to creating views from Citadel Hill they make it so you can see Citadel Hill from various points around town. In other words, they’re a benefit to everyone whether you visit the Citadel or not.

The ramparts rules, on the other hand, are just stupid. As previously noted, you can see Scotia Square from within Parade Square already. And we’re placing limits on all development downtown just to preserve the illusion for visitors to Citadel Hill??? That’s wild to me.

I don't believe that is true that any downtown buildings can be seen when standing on the Citadel parade square, I have never seen any buildings when I was standing in the middle of the Citadel parade square. If anyone has photo proof of this I would be happy to see it.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by JET

I don't believe that is true that any downtown buildings can be seen when standing on the Citadel parade square, I have never seen any buildings when I was standing in the middle of the Citadel parade square. If anyone has photo proof of this I would be happy to see it.

It is from specific reference positions, same as the viewplanes. If you stand at the origin point of the viewplane, you will have a view of George's Island and so on. So from some points in the parade square you might not see anything or from some spots around the Citadel you might not have a given view.

I heard Barrington Tower or Cogswell Tower intruded on the ramparts views.

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by JET

I don't believe that is true that any downtown buildings can be seen when standing on the Citadel parade square, I have never seen any buildings when I was standing in the middle of the Citadel parade square. If anyone has photo proof of this I would be happy to see it.

You can see it on Google Streetview: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4diGvbq3ZpuxiqZW8

Cogswell Tower is visible there just under the crane.

[JET]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

You can see it on Google Streetview: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4diGvbq3ZpuxiqZW8

Cogswell Tower is visible there just under the crane.

Interesting. It is visible from that spot , but if you move google Street to the middle of the parade square.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

All of the protected viewplanes remain unobstructed. HRM has, over the years, been very diligent about this (some may recall the drama with Fenwick Tower's proposed renovation that would be a few inches into the viewplane). The city has grown up in the spaces between the viewplanes. And yes, in the areas outside of the viewplanes the buildings are of a pretty consistent height, but that's due to height limits - nothing to do with the viewplanes themselves.

Nova Centre is in a viewplane. Go to the area opposite the town clock and see if you can see th harbour.