Winnipeg Roads & Infrastructure

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by cllew

Traffic signals at Raleigh and Springfield if I recall properly from around 2014 were to be restored if and when the Palliser group ever gets their housing project going on the west part of the former CP Transcona Yard behind the big church on the corner.

Also Raleigh and Gateway suffer from being under the jurisdiction of 3 different governments before the big Unicity merge back in the 1970's. The City of Winnipeg, The City of East Kildonan and the RM of North Kildonan all controlled portions of those right of ways and had different thoughts on how they were to be developed.

If you notice the old City of Winnipeg section is not as wide as the East Kildonan part starting at the back lane of Harbison when Morse Place was developed.

I'm old enough to remember them being really rural type gravel roads at one time. Raleigh was the last to get a full hard surface and that would have been the section in former EK Industrial Park from Kimberly south. Gateway north of Kimberly was paved as part of the Valley Gardens development

Even as a child, thirty some years ago, I wondered what the hell the city was thinking when it dreamed up the stupidity that is Raleigh and gateway. I was even more confused when they ripped up the rail line for the third sidewalk… the other two weren’t good enough? lol… Should have been turned into a boulevard years ago. With a rapid transit line right down the middle of it. Could have had a park and ride in birds hill at the perimeter and carried passengers swiftly downtown. But nope. Zero vision.

[bomberjet]

That's the plan. But money.

[cllew]

And if was not for noted Manitoba philanthropist John Buhler buying the former Marconi Sub from CP rail around 2005/2006 it may have been sold to private land developers for housing.

He got the land for a few million less than CP was asking for it, and then sold it to the city for the price he paid. And he donated around $150,000.00 towards the paving.

[Carboy15]

https://imgur.com/a/fsSJI5g

I've been looking at the City Routes lately and I wonder if they would ever streamline them like the Bus Routes? I feel like this would make some sense because it could help improve connection with other parts of the city.

And there are some city Routes that are rather stubs and out of place because they don't really connect to anything really, which should be part of longer routes or decommissioned. The easiest would be to consolidate Regent Ave, Nairn Ave, Higgins Ave, and Logan Ave into Route 37. Route 37 is rather a weird route especially around Henderson Highway, because it takes on different side streets depending where you're going. And it just ends at the Route 62 Intersection in the North End. And Plessis Road should be upgraded and assigned a Route Number and have Route 37 terminate at Plessis. Especially considering Regent and Pandora East of Plessis are rather suburban roads and focus mostly on residential traffic than through traffic (unless bypassing Dugald Road).

[EastK]

Originally Posted by Carboy15

https://imgur.com/a/fsSJI5g

I've been looking at the City Routes lately and I wonder if they would ever streamline them like the Bus Routes? I feel like this would make some sense because it could help improve connection with other parts of the city.

And there are some city Routes that are rather stubs and out of place because they don't really connect to anything really, which should be part of longer routes or decommissioned. The easiest would be to consolidate Regent Ave, Nairn Ave, Higgins Ave, and Logan Ave into Route 37. Route 37 is rather a weird route especially around Henderson Highway, because it takes on different side streets depending where you're going. And it just ends at the Route 62 Intersection in the North End. And Plessis Road should be upgraded and assigned a Route Number and have Route 37 terminate at Plessis. Especially considering Regent and Pandora East of Plessis are rather suburban roads and focus mostly on residential traffic than through traffic (unless bypassing Dugald Road).

What they really need to do is coordinate routes with their provincial highway numbers like every other jurisdiction does in North America. There are signs on Fermor approaching Lag that do not indicate it is highway 59, one of the most important highways in the province. It makes no sense and can't be fun for people travelling. Iv never heard a single person refer to Lag as route 20.

[bussche]

Originally Posted by Hecate

I was even more confused when they ripped up the rail line for the third sidewalk… the other two weren’t good enough? lol…

It's not just a sidewalk.

[cllew]

Trivia time.

The metro routes were started in 1965 by the former Metro Corp level of government to be ready for the 1967 Pan Am games to help visitors find their way around the city.

When the metro routes first came out all the North/South routes ended in a zero i.e. Henderson Hwy was Route 40 but the police departments found that drivers were confused by the signs 40, 50 and 60 thinking they were speed limit signs. Route 20 and 90 were not an issue for speeding in the city The fix was to change problem ones from ending in 0's to 2's.

East/west routes were odd numbers and not impacted by any changes.

Unfortunately city road maps for the Pan Am games were already printed with the 3 problems routes showing as 40/50/60.

Bonus points for anybody that remembers the 1960's nuclear evacuation route signs on lamp standards on major roads heading out of the city.

[Mr Tall Forehead]

Originally Posted by cllew

Trivia time.

The metro routes were started in 1965 by the former Metro Corp level of government to be ready for the 1967 Pan Am games to help visitors find their way around the city.

When the metro routes first came out all the North/South routes ended in a zero i.e. Henderson Hwy was Route 40 but the police departments found that drivers were confused by the signs 40, 50 and 60 thinking they were speed limit signs. Route 20 and 90 were not an issue for speeding in the city The fix was to change problem ones from ending in 0's to 2's.

East/west routes were odd numbers and not impacted by any changes.

Unfortunately city road maps for the Pan Am games were already printed with the 3 problems routes showing as 40/50/60.

Bonus points for anybody that remembers the 1960's nuclear evacuation route signs on lamp standards on major roads heading out of the city.

That's fascinating history. Thanks for that cclew!

I assume the speed limits were still shown in miles/hour back then and find it hilarious that they feared people might think they could drive 50mph down St. Mary's or 60mph down Osborne and Isabel...but maybe it wasn't too far fetched back then.

I wasn't around to see the nuclear evacuation signs, but would definitely love to have one hanging in my rec room.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by Mr Tall Forehead

That's fascinating history. Thanks for that cclew!

I assume the speed limits were still shown in miles/hour back then and find it hilarious that they feared people might think they could drive 50mph down St. Mary's or 60mph down Osborne and Isabel...but maybe it wasn't too far fetched back then.

I wasn't around to see the nuclear evacuation signs, but would definitely love to have one hanging in my rec room.

Correct on MPH at that time and apparently the story was that it was people not use to driving in the city that were making the mistakes on the speed signs and going fast.

Here is a link to the city site that shows one of the signs with some city people in front

https://www.winnipeg.ca/sites/defaul...signs-1966.jpg

Identification of the people in front of the sign

Installation of evacuation route signs in Metropolitan Winnipeg with A. Bentley, Provincial Coordinator of Emergency Measures Organization and Metro officials Bernie Wolfe, R.H.G. Bonnycastle, Andrew Currie, and James S. Mulholland, February 1966. City of Winnipeg Archives, Art Collection, Item

Here is a link to a city archives image of the routes as published in the Winnipeg white page telephone book 1n 1964

https://www.winnipeg.ca/sites/defaul...?itok=zEDpmSA2

[Mr Tall Forehead]

Wolfe and Bonneycastle got schools named after them and Currie got a park. Don’t recognize anything named after the other two.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by cllew

Trivia time.

The metro routes were started in 1965 by the former Metro Corp level of government to be ready for the 1967 Pan Am games to help visitors find their way around the city.

When the metro routes first came out all the North/South routes ended in a zero i.e. Henderson Hwy was Route 40 but the police departments found that drivers were confused by the signs 40, 50 and 60 thinking they were speed limit signs. Route 20 and 90 were not an issue for speeding in the city The fix was to change problem ones from ending in 0's to 2's.

East/west routes were odd numbers and not impacted by any changes.

Unfortunately city road maps for the Pan Am games were already printed with the 3 problems routes showing as 40/50/60.

Bonus points for anybody that remembers the 1960's nuclear evacuation route signs on lamp standards on major roads heading out of the city.

I was wondering about this for a very long time.

I guess the same logic also applied to Routes 37, 47, and 57.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by EastK

What they really need to do is coordinate routes with their provincial highway numbers like every other jurisdiction does in North America. There are signs on Fermor approaching Lag that do not indicate it is highway 59, one of the most important highways in the province. It makes no sense and can't be fun for people travelling. Iv never heard a single person refer to Lag as route 20.

I remember the city did have some signages about this during the 1999 Pan Am Games. I don't know if it's still there, but on northbound Main and Leila, there is or was a PTH 9 sign shown for navigation. Decades ago, they had those PTH signs inside city limits with the old PTH 4 signages throughout Main St. and Portage Ave.

If there is some rule where they can't have a highway route sign posted inside the city unless it's the Trans-Canada, Yellowhead, or PTH 59, someone needs to file a motion here.

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by The Jabroni

I was wondering about this for a very long time.

I guess the same logic also applied to Routes 37, 47, and 57.

Thanks!



I remember the city did have some signages about this during the 1999 Pan Am Games. I don't know if it's still there, but on northbound Main and Leila, there is or was a PTH 9 sign shown for navigation. Decades ago, they had those PTH signs inside city limits with the old PTH 4 signages throughout Main St. and Portage Ave.

If there is some rule where they can't have a highway route sign posted inside the city unless it's the Trans-Canada, Yellowhead, or PTH 59, someone needs to file a motion here.

I feel like the City Route system makes sense in some ways because it helps with navigation of city streets. And the Routes are maintained by the City as opposed to the Province. I feel like the city routes do make sense because they help other parts of the city feel connected.

Maybe Winnipeg could do a cost effective solution to putting Highway Numbers on City Streets for Navigation. I feel like they could either put the Highway badges on main city streets, or maybe simply put "To Highway 75 South" for example. Here's something that could be done when the St Norbert Bypass and Highway 6 get extended; Route 90 could have the Highway 75 badge on Route 90 South of Wellington Ave, and have Highway 6 and 7 badge going North of Wellington Ave. This would be helpful for Airport Travellers who are wanting to drive out of the city.

So yeah, there are many Highways that could be signed within the City Limits. Highway 59 for sure. Highway 6 and Highway 7 on Route 90 North of Wellington Ave, along with 6 signed on Inkster Blvd and the new Highway 6 extension. Highway 75 would be signed on Route 90 South of the Airport. Both Pembina Highway and Kenaston Blvd can have "To Highway 75 South" signs. Main Street can have "To Highway 9" North of Portage and Main. Route 115 can have "To Highway 15" signs East of 59. It wouldn't be official Highways within the city, but would be helpful for those who are willing to leave the city and find their way out.

[Carboy15]

IMO, I've always thought all Highways in Winnipeg should terminate at the Perimeter and/ or bypass the city entirely. But Highway 1 must stay because its Routing is chosen purposely and historically, as it passes by the Legislative Building. Highway 59 stays because it is a straight through Route. So I guess the rest were removed because it made no sense to keep the Highways that terminated within the city limits. And the reasoning makes sense.

If you look at Edmonton, most Highways within the city don't have consistent signage throughout. Some overhead signs have "To 2 North", etc. Same with other cities too.

I feel like Highway 59 for through travellers should be redirected to the Perimeter Highway as a bypass. Example: Going SB on 59 towards the Perimeter, they should advertise the Perimeter as a Bypass for Highway 59. There should be an overhead sign saying "To 59 South via 101 West".

[cllew]

I think hwy59 kept its co branding with Rte 20 thru Winnipeg as it was the temporary east leg of the Permimeter Hwy until the final section of 101 was completed in around 1995 1996.

Google maps as of Aug 2024 shows a dual identity sign setup on a light pole going south of the intersection with Grassie Blvd.

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by cllew

I think hwy59 kept its co branding with Rte 20 thru Winnipeg as it was the temporary east leg of the Permimeter Hwy until the final section of 101 was completed in around 1995 1996.

Google maps as of Aug 2024 shows a dual identity sign setup on a light pole going south of the intersection with Grassie Blvd.

I think most of the Route 20 signs have co-branding with Highway 59. It's just the overhead signs that are missing the Highway branding.

https://imgur.com/a/jgOmBxA

We could make signs like these.

[cllew]

You are right I have never seen any signs like that in the city.

[Carboy15]

https://imgur.com/a/dXiGhrV

I've been looking at the St Vital South area which is located South of the Perimeter Highway. I've always noticed that it appears that Dakota Street was planned to extend to/ beyond the Perimeter Highway to future residential access. But I personally think since there's a water treatment plant there and a Gauthier Soils, I feel like that area would be perfect for an Industrial Area. It would be situated between two Interchanges which makes it fairly easy for trucks and logistics traffic to access. Since most industrial development makes sense to build near the Perimeter (evident in areas like Oak Bluff), I don't see why that shouldn't be industrial.

This could also help consolidate those tiny commercial industrial areas. I'm refering to De Vos Road (next to the Pembina Hwy and Perimeter Cloverleaf) and Melnick Road. Taking those out could remove the need for two Railway crossings (cancel the one at Aimes/Melnick Connection, Remove De Vos Road entirely along with the crossing). Those areas could be dedicated to being strictly residential. De Vos could be used for some infill development and transform De Vos into a walking path.

P.S. Melnick Road could be consolidated to Aimes Industrial

https://imgur.com/a/sySh7Qy