Alto High Speed Rail

[acottawa]

I find it mind boggling that a decade into various schemes for enhanced rail in the corridor and they are not starting consultations on the route until next year. What have all of these rail offices and studies been doing?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by roger1818

If you draw a straight line from Ottawa to Montreal, you will see that Laval isn't as much of a detour as one would think, and it avoids all of the congestion of CN's and CPCK's mainlines. You have to wonder how they plan to get passengers (if not trains) to Gare Central though.

Yeah, fair enough, though that definitely precludes an airport stop. It also requires some pretty significant crossings over water, though that may not be any trickier than finding a right of way on land.

And as you say, getting from Laval downtown is a real challenge.

[Dengler Avenue]

And ideally, we don’t have to deal with Oka F.N. That’s what killed the A-640 extension over Ottawa River.

[Horus]

Tremblay is probably acceptably close enough to downtown. Even with the Confederation line's warts, it's a short distance to downtown from there.

I came across another related article earlier this week which indicated that Toronto Union Station may also not be the destination for the HSR line once it extends to Toronto. Could be something easily linked to downtown, like Summerhill, perhaps?

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by daud

Couple of comments:

Minister noted a commuter will get to montreal from ottawa faster than a commuter driving from the south shore to downtown. This stat is incredible and if stations are positioned well with good interurban transit links, a total game changer.

Pretty sure the minister was just daydreaming. I doubt the trip will be faster than 1h30m.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Horus

Tremblay is probably acceptably close enough to downtown. Even with the Confederation line's warts, it's a short distance to downtown from there.

I came across another related article earlier this week which indicated that Toronto Union Station may also not be the destination for the HSR line once it extends to Toronto. Could be something easily linked to downtown, like Summerhill, perhaps?

Agreed, Tremblay makes the most sense, unless you just put HSR out at the airport.

There is still a question of how you get out of Tremblay going west. It isn't obvious how that would be possible, and if it would be cheaper and easier than going downtown.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Pretty sure the minister was just daydreaming. I doubt the trip will be faster than 1h30m.

It could be as little as 30 minutes if they are willing to grade separate the whole route to a full high speed standard (and spend 100 billion). I think any time estimates are aspirational until a route and budget are decided.

[dougvdh]

Originally Posted by roger1818

If you draw a straight line from Ottawa to Montreal, you will see that Laval isn't as much of a detour as one would think, and it avoids all of the congestion of CN's and CPCK's mainlines. You have to wonder how they plan to get passengers (if not trains) to Gare Central though.

The Laval part makes me think they are thinking about the Prescott Russell Trail corridor. That would take you through to Riguad in a fairly direct line, then a new bridge across the Ottawa River to Pointe-Aux- Anglais, then along the west end of the 640 and then south into the City along the 13. That would still allow picking up Dorval as a stop.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

There was ambiguity in the announcement. It's not sure if they are going from Ottawa to Montreal via Laval or Ottawa to Laval via Montreal. If the latter, then a Dorval stop is possible.

Not having a Dorval stop kinda sucks. Would have been huge for Ottawa travelers if there was easy air-rail integration there. And I would think having Air Canada in the consortium would have pushed things that way. But apparently not.

Ottawa, Montreal then Laval, at this point, according to the consortium. So no Laval in Phase 1, which does make it less complicated without another river crossing, I assume.

https://www.altotrain.ca/en

[phil235]

Originally Posted by dougvdh

The Laval part makes me think they are thinking about the Prescott Russell Trail corridor. That would take you through to Riguad in a fairly direct line, then a new bridge across the Ottawa River to Pointe-Aux- Anglais, then along the west end of the 640 and then south into the City along the 13. That would still allow picking up Dorval as a stop.

Gotta think it's one or the other going into town. Two stops would significantly lengthen the trip.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Horus

Tremblay is probably acceptably close enough to downtown. Even with the Confederation line's warts, it's a short distance to downtown from there.

I came across another related article earlier this week which indicated that Toronto Union Station may also not be the destination for the HSR line once it extends to Toronto. Could be something easily linked to downtown, like Summerhill, perhaps?

Because of poor planning on my part, my wife and I had to fly out of Toronto to get to Grey Cup. We took an uber to Fallowfield, train to Toronto, UP train to Pearson, another shuttle train to the actual terminal and finally on the plane to Winnipeg. It was actually quite a smooth experience, so going from Tremblay to downtown Ottawa via Line 1 shouldn't be an issue at all.

As for getting to Dorval via Laval, could Dorval not be a terminal and the train goes back to Laval and head east from there? Isn't there an example of that in Europe?

[dougvdh]

Originally Posted by phil235

Gotta think it's one or the other going into town. Two stops would significantly lengthen the trip.

Both the existing and the PRT work okay coming into Ottawa as far as directness. But using the PRT is sure to ruffle some feathers among the snowmobile clubs east of Ottawa and walkers / cyclists in Ottawa.

[BGO]

From what I previously saw, Laval station will be between Montreal and Quebec city, which is a good thing for Ottawa.
For Ottawa station location, I which it would be in the old train station where the senate siege temporarily.
One can dream haha

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I agree, we shouldn't be serving suburbs with high speed rail. The point is to get between major centres as quickly as possible, so Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec. If we're serving mid-tier stand alone cities in between like Trois-Rivières and Peterborough, that's fine.

Suburbs should be better linked to the central cities and their HSR stations with rapid transit.

I definitely think there should be more than one stop in major centres. It doesn't make sense to say that under 200k people in metro Peterborough should have the exact same number of stops as a metro area of millions. Especially considering that there would otherwise be the equivalent of multiple Peterboroughs that the train bypases in places like Toronto or Montreal requiring them to go 15-30km in the opposite direction as their destination just to access the train. Yes it would be easier with high quality urban transit but people aren't going to want to travel all that way in the opposite direction. And since most people don't live downtown, you'd likely be adding a lot more time to many people's trips than you'd be saving. Seemingly little things like that can add up and drive down ridership.

[c_speed3108]

A couple things to note about high speed rail.

-Its very fast. 300 KM top speed
-As such it can't stop everywhere so stuff like Dorval and Fallowfield will not be stops
-VIA owns the old CP rail corridor (presently used for the prescott-russel trail) It was purchased in the 1980s for possible future use for high speed rail.
-I would make no assumptions about stations. The survey they conducted asked about station location and suggested several options including the current via station, downtown or the suburbs.
-In a Senate committee hearing this week the Alto CEO raised the possibility that they may not use Union station in Toronto but that a station would be downtown and nearby (your guess is as good as mine)
-Before they can state an exact route, special rules around land sales have to get put in place (basically giving the gov first right of refusal on land sales). They snuck this in the federal budget. This is to prevent land speculation scandals.
-High speed rail requires 100% grade separation. No crossing whatsoever.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Ottawa, Montreal then Laval, at this point, according to the consortium. So no Laval in Phase 1, which does make it less complicated without another river crossing, I assume.

https://www.altotrain.ca/en

That's what would make the most sense, Ottawa-Montreal, through a new Mt Royal tunnel, to Laval and then up to Trois-Rivière and Quebec City. But today's announcement was hella confusing. Why was Laval so prominent in today's presser if it's not part of the first phase? And someone from LeDroit asked where Laval fits in the route and McKinnon's answer was extremely unclear (while almost kind of making fun of the first actual HSR question in like 20 minutes, and a good one as well). He kind of "confirmed" both; he said both "et Laval entre" and confirmed "tous à fait" when she asked "on partiraient de Laval vers Ottawa". Exchange was right after the 50 minute mark during the press conference.

That reporter from LeDroit seems to have interpreted it as Laval being between Ottawa and Montreal on the route.

Le TGV reliera d’abord Montréal et Ottawa, en passant par Laval
Par Lise Denis, Le Droit
12 décembre 2025 à 09h44

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/p...N62XHV552IVHI/

[J.OT13]

Ok, soon after, the Alto guy said they are still figuring out the route, so don't give too much weight to the order displayed on the sign.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

A couple things to note about high speed rail.

-Its very fast. 300 KM top speed
-As such it can't stop everywhere so stuff like Dorval and Fallowfield will not be stops
-VIA owns the old CP rail corridor (presently used for the prescott-russel trail) It was purchased in the 1980s for possible future use for high speed rail.
-I would make no assumptions about stations. The survey they conducted asked about station location and suggested several options including the current via station, downtown or the suburbs.
-In a Senate committee hearing this week the Alto CEO raised the possibility that they may not use Union station in Toronto but that a station would be downtown and nearby (your guess is as good as mine)
-Before they can state an exact route, special rules around land sales have to get put in place (basically giving the gov first right of refusal on land sales). They snuck this in the federal budget. This is to prevent land speculation scandals.
-High speed rail requires 100% grade separation. No crossing whatsoever.

It's not going to be traveling at HSR speeds through urban and suburban areas. You can have at grade crossings up to speeds of around 177km/h in Canada and it's very unlikely that it will exceed that until it leaves the metropolitan area footprint. So it can have grade crossings and additional stops within major cities. The biggest barrier to grade crossings in urban areas tends to be train frequency rather than speed.

[dougvdh]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

A couple things to note about high speed rail.

. . . .

-VIA owns the old CP rail corridor (presently used for the prescott-russel trail) It was purchased in the 1980s for possible future use for high speed rail.
. . . .

I check on the PRT corridor. VIA sold it to the Prescott Russell Recreational Trail Corporation in late 2021. (Not saying they couldn't buy it back, at least it's intact).

[roger1818]

On Alto's website, there is a map showing where they have commissioned surveys. Given that the surveys commissioned in 2025 were mostly along a northerly route between Ottawa and Montreal, that should indicate where they are focusing their attention.

https://www.altotrain.ca/en/field-studies/field-studies