The Bay Parkade Redevelopment | 315, 271, 239m | 80, 69, 68fl | Proposed - Page 13

officedweller · #**241** Posted **Oct 7, 2025, 8:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I think it just looks that way for the rendering most of the spaces fronting the other streets are just listed as retail CRUs.

I think this other flythrough video is also new (birds eye view) and was posted two weeks ago

https://vimeo.com/1121346185/5447939844?fl=pl&fe=vl

I see a big disconnect between all the glass at grade and the reality of the Hudson's Bay having smashed windows on a near daily basis.

DavidK93 · #**242** Posted **Oct 9, 2025, 4:55 PM**

With the recent softening of the condo market, what do you think the chances are of this getting built?

GenWhy? · #**243** Posted **Oct 9, 2025, 5:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidK93

With the recent softening of the condo market, what do you think the chances are of this getting built?

Well a rezoning needs to be approved first, which could take 2+ years.

jollyburger · #**244** Posted **Oct 9, 2025, 5:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Well a rezoning needs to be approved first, which could take 2+ years.

The ballpark start date we heard on construction was five years (?) Phase 1 was about 4 years so construction would start on the supertall maybe in year 3-4 (?) With construction completing of all the buildings in 13-15 years.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/huds...-holborn-group

LeftCoaster · #**245** Posted **Oct 9, 2025, 9:18 PM**

These are decade plus long projects. Today's soft (dead) condo market has little to no impact on the viability of this project. I'd actually say Holborn's timing is pretty good here as in a few years when the condo market is active again they will be in a good position to launch.

svlt · #**246** Posted **Oct 10, 2025, 12:43 AM**

Agree, this is a generational thing. We won't see it completed until the late 2030s. Who knows what the market will be like by then.

whatnext · #**247** Posted **Oct 10, 2025, 1:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidK93

With the recent softening of the condo market, what do you think the chances are of this getting built?

Well, let’s just take a look at the developer’s record….

After 15 Years, Little Mountain’s Housing Promise Still Looks Empty
More deadlines missed as frustrated citizens beg Vancouver councillors to ‘ramp up pressure on all parties.’
Jen St. Denis

The much-delayed Little Mountain redevelopment in Vancouver will miss a BC Housing target to complete all 284 units of social housing that must be built before the 1,400 units of market housing can start.

In the 15 years since Vancouver-based developer Holborn Group bought the 6.2-hectare site, it’s remained largely empty — a frustration for neighbours, city residents and local politicians in a city known for its housing woes…

https://thetyee.ca/News/2023/07/10/L...n-15-Years-On/

Repthe250 · #**248** Posted **Oct 10, 2025, 3:48 AM**

If the condo markets downturn is the deciding factor, they should just replace excess condo units with hotel units. There is a major shortage of hotels in Vancouver to the point where it could have a negative effect on FIFA. Are there even any new hotels under construction in Vancouver at the moment? I think it’s time to shift the focus away from long term housing to short term. Since the province banned Airbnb, you’d think developing more hotels would be a priority.

Changing City · #**249** Posted **Oct 10, 2025, 5:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Repthe250

If the condo markets downturn is the deciding factor, they should just replace excess condo units with hotel units. There is a major shortage of hotels in Vancouver to the point where it could have a negative effect on FIFA. Are there even any new hotels under construction in Vancouver at the moment? I think it’s time to shift the focus away from long term housing to short term. Since the province banned Airbnb, you’d think developing more hotels would be a priority.

"they should just" means you don't really understand development economics. Holborn are already proposing a 920 bed hotel - which would be the biggest in the city (by a wide margin). They're very unlikely to want to switch the condo towers to hotel as well.

There's a major new hotel under construction on Seymour (Moxy/Element). There's a larger Listel under construction on Robson and Amacon are building another, also on Robson by BC Place. Several more have been approved, but not yet started, with nearly 1,000 rooms, including a Hilton on West Broadway by Bosa.

Before the Holborn hotel was proposed another 2,500+ rooms had been submitted to the City, and there's a Council policy to fast-track those applications. It's developers who have been quite slow to move on several of the projects.

Spr0ckets · #**250** Posted **Oct 10, 2025, 5:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Repthe250

If the condo markets downturn is the deciding factor, they should just replace excess condo units with hotel units. There is a major shortage of hotels in Vancouver to the point where it could have a negative effect on FIFA. Are there even any new hotels under construction in Vancouver at the moment? I think it’s time to shift the focus away from long term housing to short term. Since the province banned Airbnb, you’d think developing more hotels would be a priority.

More likely the project would get re-configured (read : "downsized" and rescheduled (..i.e..delayed in parts or in whole)) if by that point in time the market still can't absorb the density they're proposing.

Unless the Hotelier they'll partner with actually asks for more bed units (with the project is already proposing the most suites within a single development in the city), excess condo units would likely be eliminated altogether if they can't be converted to rental (again,...dependent on market forces).
As Changing City pointed out, it's not just a simple solution of just "converting excess" of one type to another usage.

Which is what I personally see eventually happening to this project.

It will still go through but likely not at the densities and heights they're currently proposing (and certainly not looking as it does for the most part).

Whether that means heights from the shorter towers get sacrificed and "transferred" to retain the Supertall's height and status, or whether all three get a haircut will be the question.

People forget that even hotel proposals are subject to the same (or similar) market forces that the housing components are.
Demand on the one end, and material, labour and construction costs at the other end and making the numbers work for both.

officedweller · #**251** Posted **Oct 11, 2025, 12:38 AM**

... and building the tall tower in vertical phases (like Bentall V) would be too expensive.

Changing City · #**252** Posted **Oct 11, 2025, 1:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

... and building the tall tower in vertical phases (like Bentall V) would be too expensive.

As the design is for a building with a structural exoskeleton, I suspect it might be impossible. It would also mean the viewing floor wouldn't be built until the tower was completed - assuming it was eventually built to its intended height.

Repthe250 · #**253** Posted **Oct 15, 2025, 5:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Changing City

"they should just" means you don't really understand development economics. Holborn are already proposing a 920 bed hotel - which would be the biggest in the city (by a wide margin). They're very unlikely to want to switch the condo towers to hotel as well.

There's a major new hotel under construction on Seymour (Moxy/Element). There's a larger Listel under construction on Robson and Amacon are building another, also on Robson by BC Place. Several more have been approved, but not yet started, with nearly 1,000 rooms, including a Hilton on West Broadway by Bosa.

Before the Holborn hotel was proposed another 2,500+ rooms had been submitted to the City, and there's a Council policy to fast-track those applications. It's developers who have been quite slow to move on several of the projects.

Wishful thinking, I guess. I mean projects reconfigure all the time, this one is still a proposed concept so is it totally unthinkable that they’d convert condo units to hotel if it made sense…? 920 rooms is a lot to begin with, though. I didn’t realize there were that many proposed.

Otherwise, you’re right. I am merely just a skyscraper and city planner pipe dream enthusiast. But thanks for the info, didn’t know about those hotel projects underway.