Surrey, Delta, and Langley Township UCB Change Proposals & Suburban Sprawl Discussion

[GMD]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Why can’t cities just build dense single family walkable neighbourhoods, like kits, strathcona? They don’t. They build car centric shit holes. Everywhere in North America is like this. It’s ridiculous

Vancouver does kind of do this with new developments (e.g in Clayton, or Albion, or Osprey Village or northern Coast Meridian road on Burke Mountain), but there are usually a few things lacking, the biggest of which is typically walkable commercial buildings.

Also, many of the newer dense residential neighbourhoods lack scale in that you can't go far before you hit an older lower density cul-de-sac filled neighbourhood, or a freeway or a railway or a creek/river or a mountain or the ALR or a reserve or *something*. This makes it hard to support good grid-like transit for these neighbourhoods the way you get it in Vancouver. Finally, these newer areas are typically adjacent to the really bad car centric sprawl that we built in the previous decades, which drags them down towards that car-centric level.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Why can’t cities just build dense single family walkable neighbourhoods...

In the few places in upper North America where they're not outright illegal, they're not subsidized to the same extent that suburbistan is.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by seamusmcduff

... and when most trips are east to west, the geometry for cars doesn't work with how big the highway would have to get if we kept sprawling east.

I have to jump in on this one. This has come up on here before (not going to look for it right now) - not everyone works in downtown Vancouver. The majority of people who live SoF also work SoF. Most people work either in the city they live in or one next door.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

In the few places in upper North America where they're not outright illegal, they're not subsidized to the same extent that suburbistan is.

Not that's something we should really be pushing to change with the new housing / zoning policies!

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I have to jump in on this one. This has come up on here before (not going to look for it right now) - not everyone works in downtown Vancouver. The majority of people who live SoF also work SoF. Most people work either in the city they live in or one next door.

Think you're talking past each other; seamus' point is that Vancouver and the Fraser Valley can only really sprawl in one direction (the rest being blocked by mountains, water, the border or two or three at once).

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by seamusmcduff

The geography of Vancouver is literally incompatible with single family sprawl. The only way the region can really sprawl is east, which means most commutes and trips are going one direction. At least in prairie cities, for better or worse they can sprawl in every direction, which really reduces the distance with commutes. In the prairies, a 40km wide city means you'll probably be 20km max from dt. Vancouver being 40km wide means the max commute to DT is 40km.

Single family homes also make it difficult for transit to work, and when most trips are east to west, the geometry for cars doesn't work with how big the highway would have to get if we kept sprawling east.

All sustainability and good urban planning aside, logistically a large percentage of single family homes just don't work in Vancouver. If that's the lifestyle you want at an affordable price, then there's plenty other cities you can move to for that lifestyle.

We don't, I think, want to emulate Calgary (great city that it is) with an enormous, "wrap-around" freeway serving miles of low-density SF housing sprawl. They have the space.
Vancouver does not. Plus, the land in the Fraser Valley, though development eastward is inevitable in the long haul, should be kept as pristine as possible through the intelligent implementation of denser housing, and town centres linked together with a coherent, effective transit system.