Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[elly63]

AI Treatment of McMahon Stadium with the following criteria:

McMahon Stadium in Calgary with modern outside cladding, 25,000 red seats, no upper deck or end seats

These are two of the more reasonable results (it doesn't listen too well)

[Calgarian]

Hope they build something cool and not boring cookie cutter stuff.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Hope they build something cool and not boring cookie cutter stuff.

The timing might be good if we can take the PM at his word that he wants to start building things.

To get Federal money there will have to be some type of excuse like a major International sporting event or if it is still to be U of C owned, it would be educational infrastructure.

I think Hamilton is a good example of what could have been a low budget "cookie cutter" design but with a few elements thrown in, actually looks pretty good.

I think we hold ourselves up to unreasonable standards where in the US they can spend billions for rich folk's palaces and have likely cheaper labour costs and possibly lower standards such as some southern stadiums not needing to be winterized.

[Calgarian]

My comment was about the rental housing replacing Northlands in Edmonton.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

To me it's all infrastructure. Once a city hits a certain size, I think it's reasonable for it to have facilities like a large stadium or arena (or public library system, art gallery, etc.)

I think it's unreasonable for a city of a certain size (like Halifax) to NOT have a decent sized and equipped outdoor stadium.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by elly63

AI Treatment of McMahon Stadium with the following criteria:

McMahon Stadium in Calgary with modern outside cladding, 25,000 red seats, no upper deck or end seats

These are two of the more reasonable results (it doesn't listen too well)

Unreal and

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Unreal and

I really like the outside of both and the all red interior but I didn't want it to be so enclosed because those seats behind and beside the end zone wouldn't be too good.

The other designs it threw back were way over the top.

Frankly, if McMahon had all the benches replaced with red seats and the same red seats were used throughout (why the blue) the place would look 100% better. Does someone know if the rake of the stands would allow seats instead of the benches?

I hate the whole idea of refurbishing and all the problems that can go with it, over either demolishing and building anew or building anew, but there is something about the interior of this stadium I like.

[craner]

Originally Posted by elly63

I really like the outside of both and the all red interior but I didn't want it to be so enclosed because those seats behind and beside the end zone wouldn't be too good.

The other designs it threw back were way over the top.

Frankly, if McMahon had all the benches replaced with red seats and the same red seats were used throughout (why the blue) the place would look 100% better. Does someone know if the rake of the stands would allow seats instead of the benches?

I hate the whole idea of refurbishing and all the problems that can go with it, over either demolishing and building anew or building anew, but there is something about the interior of this stadium I like.

The existing rake of the stands with benches would need to be redone to accommodate seats. This is what was done for the center sections with seats (they were benches as well initially). I think the red seats went in for the 1988 Olympics upgrade & expansion. I believe the blue seats went in a little later and replaced these little plastic bum-shaped molds that were moved to some of the end section bench seats. I don’t know why they installed blue seats either - must have got a bargain deal on them or something.

Honestly, at this point, I think the best thing we can hope for (if not getting a brand new stadium) is a 3-phase re-build of McMahon while it remains in operation:
Phase 1: Tear down and rebuild the east grandstand.
Phase 2: Tear down and rebuild the west grandstand.
Phase 3A: Tear down and rebuild of the south end (locker rooms etc.). Provide a connection on top between the east & west grandstands and provide any endzone type amenity seating/areas as desired.
Phase 3B: Tear out the field and base structure to re-grade the new field to meet FIFA standards. The existing crown of the field (for drainage) does not meet FIFA standards (at least that’s what I’ve heard).
Phase 3C: Similar to Phase 3A but for the north end - just a refurbishment (not a tear down) as this end is newer. Expand the walkway connecting east to west and pave with concrete rather than the existing asphalt.


Either that or look at a renovation of the existing Stampede grandstand and building an east grandstand as some others have mentioned. This would allow the Stampeders to play on the Stampede Grounds and leverage the entertainment and hospitality amenities (i.e. “District”) that the City & CSEG are trying to create as part of the new arena & Convention Center which are close by. Would be nice to take advantage of this on Stamps game days. You would also still have the big parking lot (AKA the Stampede grounds) for tailgating.

Ahh it’s fun to dream.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by elly63

I think it's unreasonable for a city of a certain size (like Halifax) to NOT have a decent sized and equipped outdoor stadium.

The demand increases and the difficulty of financing goes down as the city ends up with more resources.

Halifax has an operating budget of $1.3B and a capital budget of over $300M for 2025. In other words, a bare bones stadium for 20,000 people would just be part of the capital spending in a single year at this point. Of course, the reason it doesn't get funded is because it's below a bunch of other priorities.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by someone123

The demand increases and the difficulty of financing goes down as the city ends up with more resources.

Halifax has an operating budget of $1.3B and a capital budget of over $300M for 2025. In other words, a bare bones stadium for 20,000 people would just be part of the capital spending in a single year at this point. Of course, the reason it doesn't get funded is because it's below a bunch of other priorities.

I'm not advocating that it will make sense financially, I'm not sure if the 58 million dollar library made sense. Did the oversized stadium in Regina (half the population of Halifax) make sense? I guess it depends on how you look at it.

Looking back it didn't make sense for Brooklyn not to build a new stadium for the Dodgers, it hurt the borough. I realize that's not the same scenario as Halifax but I'm not seeing a groundswell of complaints about the new stadiums that were built in Canada, but of course there will always be naysayers.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by craner

Phase 3B: Tear out the field and base structure to re-grade the new field to meet FIFA standards. The existing crown of the field (for drainage) does not meet FIFA standards (at least that’s what I’ve heard)

I think for the NSL team to play there, the field has to be already FIFA sanctioned. Jesse Marsch has mused about the NT playing there and with the field widened and the new unlined artificial turf, it should be a go.

McMahon installed the same type of FieldTurf that was installed at Winnipeg’s Princess Auto Stadium. (FieldTurf Vertex Core 1, wlth CoolPlay TPE infill, FIFA Quality Pro certified). It should be noted that the manufacturers can say their product is FIFA certified (I assume it has been tested) but each individual field has to be tested to be certified (FIFA grift) Quality Pro is their highest level of certification.

One thing I can say about Canadian stadiums is that they have never cheapened out when acquiring new artificial turf. Almost every time each new stadium installation has acquired whatever has been the state of the art.

Before



After

[SteelTown]

FirstOntario Centre Renovation so far....


Source: vistaway @ https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/to...e-renovations-m-4s-ovg-bbb.32788/page-29

New sign going up

Source: vistaway @ https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/to...e-renovations-m-4s-ovg-bbb.32788/page-28

Fresh paint

Source: vistaway @ https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/to...e-renovations-m-4s-ovg-bbb.32788/page-28

[elly63]

BTW, I watched the Calgary/Rider game and the new artificial turf looked good. Very much unlike when I grew up and the surface had only one paint job at the beginning of the year and the lines faded and looked terrible at the end of the year.

• Video Link

Now they have robot GPS guided paint machine(s) to take care of that. The paint is removed and then repainted for football or soccer.

• Video Link

[Coldrsx]

The Edmonton Riverhawks home opener did alright.

[Coldrsx]

[jonny24]

RFQ for Lansdowne 2.0 is out. Rough Schedule:

New Event Centre (hockey arena) 2025-2028. Occupancy June 2028.

Demo of North Stands and TD Arena Q3 2028

New North Stands 2028 - 2030. Occupancy May 2030

So it looks like the RedBlacks will be at half capacity for the 2029 season, and possibly late 2028 season.

No roof

[elly63]

Originally Posted by jonny24

RFQ for Lansdowne 2.0 is out. Rough Schedule: No roof

It's interesting that at no time has there ever been a consideration for a roof for the new North Stands except for these two instances.

Council Approves Lansdowne Renewal Plan
ottawa.ca November 9, 2023

The link no longer works but you can see the article if you run it through archive.org's Wayback Machine.

There it said:
Council carried several motions to further refine the Lansdowne plan, committing the City to:
- Work with OSEG to consider options for including a roof over the new north side stands.

Now I don't know if they meant down the road or if it was to be completed in the initial build.

Also, the drawing in this CBC story teased a roof. It's the only time I saw a type of roof for the proposed North stands and it actually looks like a bad Photoshop. That dates back to when the arena was to have a grass topped roof or whatever it was called.

Experts pen letter of concern about Lansdowne 2.0
5 experts in governance and finances ask Ottawa mayor to open up process
Giacomo Panico CBC News June 27, 2023

[elly63]

Originally Posted by elly63

Now I don't know if they meant down the road or if it was to be completed in the initial build.

It's down the road.

Roof on north-side stands

There is no roof planned for the new north-side stands at Lansdowne.

Goudie told TSN 1200 that the city and OSEG are looking at the option “some day.”

“We’re looking at options down the road,” Goudie said. “Whether we can maintain the ability to have a roof on the north-side. I wouldn’t say the chances of that for the first phase of the redevelopment are great. I know it’s important to people so we’re trying to determine how we might accomplish that some day.”

[Djeffery]

I think one problem they will have with a roof is pushback from the apartments to the west that will lose a part of their view (depending on how high up they are). A selling feature will surely be a view of the field and even the roof shown in that image a couple posts up will really affect that.

No doubt if a roof could be built on BMO, one can be done here as well, it will just be a matter of costs, and how it affects the aesthetics of the larger complex.

[elly63]

• Video Link