Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by elly63

Most of the stadiums in the CFL are used by multiple teams and the community. Why is it people from Toronto don't want others to have things? They were happy when Edmonton's bid for World Cup soccer games failed so they could get a few more. That's icky.

Multiple teams or community doesn't justify the costs of these elephants otherwise the multi-millionaire club owners would be building them. Instead, you have cities sold on ownership for unsellable assets with teams paying nominal rents and full long term rights on the lucrative management contracts (that still don't justify the costs to build)

There has to be a better way to reduce costs. A NHL arena is now $1.2 billion! No one wants to host the Olympics anymore . The CFL will never expand over this. That's the realisation.

The last thing Toronto should be spending on is "co-hosting" the World Cup. They'll be lucky to break even. MLSE with its paltry $25 million investment into the $150 million renos will cash in.

[elly63]

You're right, none of this makes financial sense. Building libraries and theatres makes no financial sense, the space program made no sense aside from the technologies derived from it. Sometimes you just have to do things for what they give to people that don't make sense.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by TimB09

But do you keep kicking that can down the road until it can't be kicked anymore? Isn't the Civic Centre very old? You can only do so many upgrades on an old building until it's not worth it anymore.

The complex isn't on the verge of collapse. It's just missing some washrooms and accessibility features. Seems reasonable that we could just add those and make a few other modernizations. The building has been there since 1967, it's a unique structure designed by one of Canada's greatest architects (Raymond Moriyama). It's hosted countless National and Local historical events.

The new arena plan removes nearly half the capacity and it's been value engineered to death.

[elly63]

That building has had numerous problems. IIRC when they were refurbishing the North stands of the stadium they found they had to redo the roof of the arena adding an extra 24 million to the cost.

Also:

It’s going to take 10 more years and $32.181 million to repair and replace Lansdowne’s Civic Centre complex and North Stadium Structure — $7 million of which will be spent in the next five years alone (or 1.4 million per year).

And what one of two new reports commissioned by OSEG by Leibe Engineering Associates found was that in their current state, the Ottawa Civic Centre and north side stands would need a “seismic upgrade” as the existing structure and foundations of Ottawa Civic Centre and north stands are not structurally adequate to allow for a redevelopment for the structures with a life expectancy of 50 years.

The Issues

Some of the issues outlined in the report include washrooms that are so antiquated that 50 port-a-potties are brought into the north stadium stands on REDBLACKS game days, a leaky arena ceiling (risking event cancellations), game delays and unsafe ice conditions, as well as persistent mold outbreaks.

The concourse and roof are also not insulated — this results in excessive heat loss in the winter and a “cold” arena with high operating costs.

Its outdated functional spaces are also making the site uncompetitive when attracting events.

“For example, the arena was not compliant with current standards to attract recent tourism-friendly events such as the Canadian Hockey League Memorial Cup as the arena no longer meets specification requirements,” the report outlines.

OSEG advises that TD Place will continue to decline as a spot for competitive sports, tourism and touring events and concerts if the structures cannot meet specification requirements.

In addition, load restrictions make it impossible to host multiple events in the stadium and arena; small and inadequate dress room space, suites in the arena are inaccessible due to building code violations and an elevator that cannot be used for guest access.

Concessions are also small and lack proper ventilation, creating inefficiencies in food services.

Accessible seating is below current requirements and there are restrictions on the dispersion of the accessible seating locations. There is also no or inadequate elevator access and capacity in the north stadium.

Lastly, the structure is energy inefficient, which results in increased operating costs and a building that “does not meet council’s overall environmental goals for the rest of the site.”

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Jesus... a circle trough... even worse than the one at Rich Stadium.

I guess it's possible I never had to use the washrooms at IWS? Either that or I used them and the traumatic experience made me suppress that memory.

I think there was at least one with that. Every "washroom" seemed different, whereas now they're pretty standard (though some are switched between male and female depending on the event).

I never went to any Bills games, but I recall friends talking about how there'd be guys peeing in the sinks during halftime.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by elly63

You're right, none of this makes financial sense. Building libraries and theatres makes no financial sense, the space program made no sense aside from the technologies derived from it. Sometimes you just have to do things for what they give to people that don't make sense.

To me it's all infrastructure. Once a city hits a certain size, I think it's reasonable for it to have facilities like a large stadium or arena (or public library system, art gallery, etc.)

We spend a lot on highways but few seem to question it, though there are people who never use them.

It does get ridiculous when billionaires are able to "profit" from this public spending, but we've allowed that to happen. In the U.S. it's far worse, though I imagine it happens all around the world.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by elly63

Commonwealth Games.

Last time Alberta looked into hosting the Commonwealth Games, it was a joint Calgary and Edmonton bid. Not a chance they would put significant money to McMahon when they can just use Commonwealth.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by elly63

I read that one of the top infrastructure needs for the city was a new fieldhouse and that there has been a group lobbying for it. I do like the idea of a combined stadium fieldhouse just as a motivation to get things going. But when the idea was explored people lost their poop over a couple of proposed drawings that they didn't like. Mosaic in Regina looks nothing like ts proposed drawing, let's get the ball rolling first before condemning everything.

We are getting a new fieldhouse, they tore down the really old baseball stadium to make way for it. Now our premier baseball stadium is a 5200 seat stadium in Okotoks!

[elly63]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Last time Alberta looked into hosting the Commonwealth Games, it was a joint Calgary and Edmonton bid. Not a chance they would put significant money to McMahon when they can just use Commonwealth.

Sooner or later a new stadium is going to happen and they'll need a convenient excuse be it a large international gathering or whatever else can be thought of. I'm trying to think of ones that are built just because the old one is EOL, Winnipeg and Regina come to mind. But even Hamilton and Ottawa which might have been in worse shape had the PanAm games and the return of the Redblacks to help justify them.

There will be a champion who comes along who will drive the talk when the talk of the majority will be that the place isn't up to the standards everywhere else or the people going there. It can turn quickly, both ways.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

We are getting a new fieldhouse, they tore down the really old baseball stadium to make way for it.

So they are
Work begins on Foothills Athletic Park redevelopment
$380M Calgary multisport fieldhouse faces funding hurdles on its way to the finish line

[Calgarian]

I could see Calgary taking another shot at the games in the future, the legacy from 88 is almost gone and our venues need major upgrades to continue to serve the athletes who need them. For example: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/winte...ic-oval-lifespan-speed-skating-1.7436932

[blueandgoldguy]

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they wait until one or both of the main grandstands at McMahon Stadium are condemned before they do actually do anything. Maybe that happens in 10 years? 15 years? 20 years?

I doubt we will see any big event come to Calgary that would justify a new stadium. The closest might be an international event that goes to several cities in Canada and Calgary doesn't want to miss out on the economic impact thus justifying the public financing of a new stadium. That would be a second tier event like the Women's World Cup or the under - 21 Men's World Cup. We are coming up on 20 years since we last hosted and that particular event (under-21s) happens every 2 years so maybe Canada will be do in the next 10 years or so?

Offhand, weren't the stands at Mcmahon partially rebuilt for the 88 winter olympics?

[Calgarian]

They have expanded and rebuilt McMahon several times over its 60+ year history. During the Olympics they put in temporary seating at the ends to make it a full bowl. They also do this for big events (Grey Cup, Heritage Classic).

[elly63]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they wait until one or both of the main grandstands at McMahon Stadium are condemned before they do actually do anything. Maybe that happens in 10 years? 15 years? 20 years?

Going by what the McMahon Stadium Society guy said, I think you'll see it before ten years. There has been criticism for years but not loud or constant enough. Now that talk of the arena is over, it will eventually turn to the stadium and they will look to right size it.

[elly63]

For the naysayers out there who think nothing will ever get done, look at this World Cup 2010 feasibility study from 2000 and see what was available then. Much later, for a while, there was a new or refurbished stadium built in Canada every year.

[craner]

Not directly related to Scotia Place in Calgary but a new hotel close by on the Stampede grounds has been announced - with more likely to follow in the area it seems (3 articles).

http://https://calgaryherald.com/business/local-business/first-hotel-development-stampede-park

http://https://www.calgarymlc.ca/articles/ce-district-hotel-truman

http://https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-truman-stampede-park-culture-and-entertainment-1.7549954

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by craner

Not directly related to Scotia Place in Calgary but a new hotel close by on the Stampede grounds has been announced - with more likely to follow in the area it seems (3 articles).

http://https://calgaryherald.com/business/local-business/first-hotel-development-stampede-park

http://https://www.calgarymlc.ca/articles/ce-district-hotel-truman

http://https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-truman-stampede-park-culture-and-entertainment-1.7549954

Seems like a lot of rooms for 13 floors. Quite a nice design though. Great to see the area urbanize a bit more.

[Coldrsx]

A soon to be forgotten site of a lot of fond memories and moments.

[Calgarian]

Is Northlands finally coming down?

[Coldrsx]

So we hear. The Province allocated some funding to demo; likely rental housing in its future.