Cogswell Interchange

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by ArchAficionado

c.

I am also cautiously optimistic about the longer term future of this, which hopefully is a stepping stone to better urban fabric being a priority in these large, key redevelopment projects. I think when the trademart building reaches end of life that block could be broken down with a small street down the middle.

.

It should be used for a site of a new arena as the current Scotia Bank Centre will have to be replaced at some point. It would be a perfect location!

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

Stepping back more it feels like while Halifax has been growing a lot through added population and private sector construction, it doesn't have much in the way of new public amenities and urban infrastructure that kick things up a notch. Is there anything more impressive than the library that opened a decade ago? What's the 2020's equivalent of that?

The AGNS rebuild and surrounding public space has that potential, but it's put on indefinite hiatus by the province. The best thing that's actually been built is Queen's Marque—the architecture, public spaces and gathering areas and other amenities have genuinely transformed that entire part of the waterfront, from a bunch of cutesy shacks to something that feels legitimately metropolitan in scale and quality. It's encouraging that we're getting private investment of that quality. It's discouraging that we don't have any public projects in the pipeline of that sort.

I don't think Cogswell is shaping up to the disaster people on here are making it out to be. It's not ambitious from a land-use perspective, and it's not going to be winning big design awards in a few years. There are major missed opportunities. But anyone following the project has known that for a long time, and objectively, it's looking good in person for what it is. For me the make-or-break will be the land use and building design. The city is developing new policies around that right now.

Obviously, land use and architectural design should have been integrated into the design of the district right from the beginning, so this feels like backing into a pretty vital aspect of the whole thing belatedly. But at least it's happening, I suspect at least partly in response to criticism some councillors have received on the issue.

[ButterNutPecan]

For what it is, I think it's a pretty good set up. It extends the downtown core, has trails, room for buses, greenspace, and still keeps a decent traffic corridor for getting into/out of the downtown.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

The AGNS rebuild and surrounding public space has that potential, but it's put on indefinite hiatus by the province. The best thing that's actually been built is Queen's Marque—the architecture, public spaces and gathering areas and other amenities have genuinely transformed that entire part of the waterfront, from a bunch of cutesy shacks to something that feels legitimately metropolitan in scale and quality. It's encouraging that we're getting private investment of that quality. It's discouraging that we don't have any public projects in the pipeline of that sort.

I don't think Cogswell is shaping up to the disaster people on here are making it out to be. It's not ambitious from a land-use perspective, and it's not going to be winning big design awards in a few years. There are major missed opportunities. But anyone following the project has known that for a long time, and objectively, it's looking good in person for what it is. For me the make-or-break will be the land use and building design. The city is developing new policies around that right now.

Obviously, land use and architectural design should have been integrated into the design of the district right from the beginning, so this feels like backing into a pretty vital aspect of the whole thing belatedly. But at least it's happening, I suspect at least partly in response to criticism some councillors have received on the issue.

So to summarize, not great but not horrible? The great Halifax desire for mediocrity comes through again.

But, yes, definitely better than doing nothing, which wasn’t an option as the maintenance-deferred interchange infrastructure would have eventually become unsafe to continue using.

As I said, my initial impression was “meh”, but I’ve seen construction sites blossom in the past, once they become built up. I do share the disappointment of some posters that a large transit project, perhaps even underground, is a huge missed opportunity. I’ll leave it at that.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

It should fbe used for a site of a new arena as the current Scotia Bank Centre will have to be replaced at some point. It would be a perfect location!

There’s not enough room there now without removing a few of those brand new streets.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

There’s not enough room there now without removing a few of those brand new streets.

Nope you're wrong. There is plenty of room for a new arena!

[Keith P.]

I simply looked at Google Maps and could see that the current building is about the same size as the Marriott Harbourfront, a big square. I cannot see any way to fit that in there. Not to say it couldn't be built over a street and even provide a transit hub below it, but that would have been something that would have made sense to plan for a few years ago. .

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Nope you're wrong. There is plenty of room for a new arena!

Cogswell site is 16 acres minus infrastructure...... streets, sidewalks, small transit shelters, grassy areas. I would guess there would be approx. 7+ acres of developable land broken into small obscure lots.

It would take, at minimum, 14 continuous acres for a 17,000 seat arena. The only hope would be to demolish Brunswick Place and incorporate the adjacent Cogswell lands. Shoehorned at best.

12,000 seat Scotiabank Centre would fit no where on the Cogswell lands:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.6501613,-..._ep=EgoyMDI0MTIwMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

[ArchAficionado]

Originally Posted by Empire

Cogswell site is 16 acres minus infrastructure...... streets, sidewalks, small transit shelters, grassy areas. I would guess there would be approx. 7+ acres of developable land broken into small obscure lots.

It would take, at minimum, 14 continuous acres for a 17,000 seat arena. The only hope would be to demolish Brunswick Place and incorporate the adjacent Cogswell lands. Shoehorned at best.

12,000 seat Scotiabank Centre would fit no where on the Cogswell lands:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.6501613,-..._ep=EgoyMDI0MTIwMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

IMHO the best site for a stadium is at the edge of, but still within, a city's downtown - Take for example Edmonton's NHL stadium, Roger's Place, which just abuts its central business district but is next to midrise commerical / residential transitioning into older residential on the north side: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Edmont..._ep=EgoyMDI0MTIwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

In Halifax, the trademart site + block of new land down to Barrington would be a prime site if they could squeeze it in there. If not, I think the next best option would be the old grain silo land, if it can be reconfigured sufficiently. The 3rd and final logical option would be to incorporate the super-block of the forum + canada post facility + piercey's lot in the north end to something the likes of Montreal's Bell Center and surrounding residential towers: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4970526,..._ep=EgoyMDI0MTIwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

[Empire]

Originally Posted by ArchAficionado

IMHO the best site for a stadium is at the edge of, but still within, a city's downtown - Take for example Edmonton's NHL stadium, Roger's Place, which just abuts its central business district but is next to midrise commerical / residential transitioning into older residential on the north side: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Edmont..._ep=EgoyMDI0MTIwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

In Halifax, the trademart site + block of new land down to Barrington would be a prime site if they could squeeze it in there. If not, I think the next best option would be the old grain silo land, if it can be reconfigured sufficiently. The 3rd and final logical option would be to incorporate the super-block of the forum + canada post facility + piercey's lot in the north end to something the likes of Montreal's Bell Center and surrounding residential towers: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4970526,..._ep=EgoyMDI0MTIwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Exactly...see post #1198

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I simply looked at Google Maps and could see that the current building is about the same size as the Marriott Harbourfront, a big square. I cannot see any way to fit that in there. Not to say it couldn't be built over a street and even provide a transit hub below it, but that would have been something that would have made sense to plan for a few years ago. .

It would be the whole block with the parking structure that is there now included. It would be larger area than the current Scotia Bank Centre and the same area in size as the Bell Centre in Montreal.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

It would be the whole block with the parking structure that is there now included. It would be larger area than the current Scotia Bank Centre and the same area in size as the Bell Centre in Montreal.

Sorry, I have no idea what block you’re referring to here.

[Corker]

The Scotiabank Centre covers about 2.5 acres (the former trade centre adds another acre on that block).

The two PIDs that make up the Tramway property are about 4 acres, but it's not well shaped for an arena. The two neighbouring Cogswell properties, D and E, if they were to be consolidated for a new arena project could add about two acres. The purchasing of the Tramway property and forgoing the revenue from selling two Cogswell properties could be offset somewhat by later selling the land from the Scotiabank Centre.

A decision to do that would have to occur in the near future before the sale of Cogswell properties gets underway, but I don't think the political will is there for such an initiative at this time.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Sorry, I have no idea what block you’re referring to here.

The block the Trade Mart building is on!

This was actually one of the possible sites selected in a study for a new Metro Centre back in 2007 when they were looking at possibly converting the current Scotia Bank Centre into a Convention Centre.

https://www.eventseast.com/sites/default..._Feasibility_Study_Volume_1_May_2007.pdf

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Corker

The Scotiabank Centre covers about 2.5 acres (the former trade centre adds another acre on that block).

The two PIDs that make up the Tramway property are about 4 acres, but it's not well shaped for an arena. The two neighbouring Cogswell properties, D and E, if they were to be consolidated for a new arena project could add about two acres. The purchasing of the Tramway property and forgoing the revenue from selling two Cogswell properties could be offset somewhat by later selling the land from the Scotiabank Centre.

A decision to do that would have to occur in the near future before the sale of Cogswell properties gets underway, but I don't think the political will is there for such an initiative at this time.

I don't know, when I measure it on Google Earth there seems to be enough room even with the odd shape. Might be a bit tight but is possible.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

The block the Trade Mart building is on!

This was actually one of the possible sites selected in a study for a new Metro Centre back in 2007 when they were looking at possibly converting the current Scotia Bank Centre into a Convention Centre.

https://www.eventseast.com/sites/default..._Feasibility_Study_Volume_1_May_2007.pdf

So, that would require HRM to purchase and demolish the Trade Mart site, and to compensate the owner for lost revenue and costs for leases that would need to be broken.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

So, that would require HRM to purchase and demolish the Trade Mart site, and to compensate the owner for lost revenue and costs for leases that would need to be broken.

I don't see this happening in the immediate future but could look at buying the building down the road. The building is getting kinda old and houses mostly provincial government offices.

[ArchAficionado]

The trademart site could definitely accomodate a 20k seat hockey arena with towers integrated into it as a large podium (like canadiens tour 1 connected to the Montreal Bell Centre), on the site bounded by Brunswick, Cogswell, Barrington (new alignment) and the under-construction smaller lane that will split the cogswell site south of the water treatment facility. I don't at all expect this to happen, but it would technically be feasible. A quick analysis in google earth shows that site (trademart + parking + cogswell sites "D" and "E" to posess roughly 5.8 acres of space, whereas the current scotiabank arena is situated on 2.6 acres, and Montreal's Centre Bell (which is the biggest in the NHL and seats 21000 for hockey), is fit neatly into a 4 acre site with a tower abutting it directly on the NW side.

Notwithstanding, there is no business case for such a project without an anchor pro team (I don't think Mooseheads capture sufficient revenue to make profitable a $1B+ stadium build-out), and I think that CFL is more likely to come to Halifax than NHL is in next 10 years. A football stadium would not fit on this site.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Imagine, after so many years of blaming the Cogswell Interchange for all of the woes of the north end to plunk down a big block busting arena on the site. Talk about cutting off the north end from downtown!

I'm a fan of the Forum/Post Office/ Bragg site as an entertainment district inclusive of a stadium, arena and performance venues. This location has decent roadways on/off the peninsula, Robie BRT route and perhaps eventually LRT, and it is walking distance to/from most anywhere on the peninsula (for those who like to walk). I see no other appropriate site on the peninsula. My second choice would be Woodside area.

[AnotherNorthender]

Based on conversations I've had with the new owners of the Moose and their GM, a new stadium is in their site lines (unrelated to my post re: Wanderers grounds and stadium architects). It was in "the next 10 years" realm, but it is a conversation being had