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  #941  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 5:23 AM
logicbomb logicbomb is offline
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Originally Posted by casper View Post
I would question the merits of tossing people out who are established in Canada.

If they are working, paying their bills, we should just leave them be. What do we gain by turning them away after being here. Worse thing is to turn the into criminals by having them overstay their visas.
Many came here under the pretext to study and work and had to prove they could support themselves. They agreed to terms and conditions and agreed to leave by a set date. They knew and then cried foul about having to go back and many have failed to adhere to the conditions outlined upon entry. What kind of presidence do we establish allowing most newcomer to stay? You just enable a low trust society where it's better off to be a dishonest bad actor.

The mindset of being a post-nation state has to go. We don't have the infrastructure (health, education, housing) to handle all these people right now.
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  #942  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 6:07 AM
Spr0ckets Spr0ckets is offline
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Originally Posted by GMD View Post
Because the current volume of temporary residents in the country is so huge, reducing this inflow (as planned), will mean so many more temporary residents leaving than arriving, that this reduction in temporary residents will be larger than the ongoing (reduced by 20% as you say) flow of permanent residents, resulting in a population decline.

Of course, that relies on a number of factors, so the population may not actually decline, but certainly the growth rate will be very low for a couple of years as the pig passes out of the python, so to speak.

Still, in the same way that Vancouver was cushioned from the post-Covid collapse in commercial real estate because our market was so tight prior to Covid, the fact that we are currently buckling under a huge wave of immigrants will likely make it easier to adjust to a couple of years of slow volumes.

Also, interest rates coming down should help a lot to offset this as well.

Finally, completion of LNG Canada, Site C and Broadway Extension will all be big wins for the province, although this also means that the government should be looking at new capital projects to pick up the slack these completions will leave.

Actually the more pertinent reason is because immigrants typically tend to have higher fertility rates and have babies at a more robust rate than native born citizens.

This has been an established phenomenon for several decades now - and not just in Canada but in most western countries that rely considerably on immigration to balance their population growth and meet their labor needs.

Eventually their birth rates level down as the generations pass through and it comes to match what the native-born fertility rate is, which is why significantly cutting down immigration would likely have a considerable (and disproportionate) impact on population growth necessary to keep up with the growing economy we have, and the workforce labor needs it entails.
Unless you have a way of dialing up the native-born fertility rate - which would be a reverse of what normally happens in developed and first world countries.

The ugly truth about immigration is that the First World is becoming more reliant on the developing world (and emigrees from fellow first world countries) to keep their stagnant or declining populations from dropping far below replacement levels, (more than they already are) and within the next 30-40 years there will be an arms race, ...of sorts, for skilled, educated (and yes, young and fertile) immigrants between the various First World nations, as they begin to experience population crunches from retiring workforces and declining population growth.
Far East Asian countries like Japan are already experiencing this.
Their current workforce demographic is having babies at lower than the necessary replacement levels to be able to support them when they retire and will have to figure out a solution sooner rather than later.
The solution for them is not just as easy as open up the tap to allow more immigrants in given how they're a notoriously very nationalistic and culturally insular nation, that's hard for immigrants to move to and settle in.


The 'population decline' issue is something that's just going to whiff past most people's heads as they're agitating for cutting down on immigration, but it is one of the factors that's a reality for a country like Canada that definitely relies on immigration to the degree we do.

It's also worth noting that cutting down immigration is absolutely not going to fix Canada's affordability and housing crisis issues (not to the degree that most people, like,....those seemingly on here,.. think it will), and it could actually backfire in terms of the effects on the economy for those who think that incomes will rise just because you've removed a signification portion of an exploited low-earning labor force.

What do you think happens to the price of your espresso or you large French Vanilla when the coffee shop is forced to raise the wages and incomes of the people making it?

It's an easy issue to demagogue during election cycles, and immigrants are - as they always always have been and will be -.....an easy and soft target, and uber-convenient scapegoats.
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  #943  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 6:43 AM
BaddieB BaddieB is offline
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Originally Posted by casper View Post
I would question the merits of tossing people out who are established in Canada.

If they are working, paying their bills, we should just leave them be. What do we gain by turning them away after being here. Worse thing is to turn the into criminals by having them overstay their visas.
Because we have laws. They're under here under those conditions and they must be respected, especially as there is not the room to accommodate them. Canada is not a charity.
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  #944  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 6:47 AM
BaddieB BaddieB is offline
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Originally Posted by Spr0ckets View Post
...because you've removed a signification portion of an exploited low-earning labor force.

What do you think happens to the price of your espresso or you large French Vanilla when the coffee shop is forced to raise the wages and incomes of the people making it?
"Who is going to clean your toilet Donald Trump "

Oh no, wages will increase, the horror!
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  #945  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 7:28 AM
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Also, the temp worker system already has enough overabused loopholes - letting them stay for good seems like it creates as many problems as it solves.
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  #946  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 8:26 AM
Burquitlaman Burquitlaman is offline
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Originally Posted by BaddieB View Post
As much as I want you to be right, I am doubtful Trudeau's government will do much to deport people who are overstaying.
If you're here as a non permanent resident you will leave if you cannot work or study. Why the f*** would you stay? Some may stay, but most will logically leave. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. Without the right to be here you cannot build a life for yourself. You must be extremely desperate to overstay at that point, and most aren't.
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  #947  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by logicbomb View Post
Many came here under the pretext to study and work and had to prove they could support themselves. They agreed to terms and conditions and agreed to leave by a set date. They knew and then cried foul about having to go back and many have failed to adhere to the conditions outlined upon entry. What kind of presidence do we establish allowing most newcomer to stay? You just enable a low trust society where it's better off to be a dishonest bad actor.

The mindset of being a post-nation state has to go. We don't have the infrastructure (health, education, housing) to handle all these people right now.
Your reading a lot of philosophical motive into my statement. It is fairly pragmatic. If your here under a temporary work/study visa, your have been a good citizen and managed to make a life for your self, then you should be able to apply for an extension or into a permanent track.

Yes, we do have enough infrastructure for them because, well they have been here living here for 3-4 years if not longer.

Some of these "temporary work visas" in areas such as agriculture are for people who have been here for 10+ years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaddieB View Post
Because we have laws. They're under here under those conditions and they must be respected, especially as there is not the room to accommodate them. Canada is not a charity.
I am talking about people who have followed Canadian laws during the time they have been here.
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  #948  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 2:41 PM
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Thanks to ssiguy this thread has been detailed into a debate about federal immigration policy. There's an appropriate place in the national section for that, and it doesn't have anything to do with the provincial election, or the results which should be clearer by the end of the day, (although it looks like there could be another judicial recount to confirm the final result).
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  #949  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 6:21 PM
madog222 madog222 is online now
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NDP currently down by 4 votes in Surrey-Guildford
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  #950  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 7:04 PM
whatnext whatnext is online now
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Originally Posted by madog222 View Post
NDP currently down by 4 votes in Surrey-Guildford
Wow! That's quite the razor thin margin.

I hadn't been following that particular riding much. Was there a particular issue at the riding level? Or just the general swing away from the NDP?
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  #951  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 7:06 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Wow! That's quite the razor thin margin.

I hadn't been following that particular riding much. Was there a particular issue at the riding level? Or just the general swing away from the NDP?
As of 12PM today, the NDP now lead Surrey-Guilford by 14 votes meaning the NDP have won or lead in 47 seats.

Thank god we're looking at a majority government again.
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  #952  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 7:22 PM
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we flipped Guildford, NDP is getting it's Majority, thank god
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  #953  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 7:25 PM
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Remember, every vote counts… if you live in Surrey.
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  #954  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 7:41 PM
mcj mcj is offline
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Remember, every vote counts… if you live in Surrey.
Going back to October 7, latest pre-election snapshot on the Internet Archive predictions were that Surrey would be safe territory for the NDP, with only Surrey Serpentine being a toss-up and Surrey South / Surrey-White Rock going to the CPBC.

Also has Kelowna Centre as CPBC safe. Vernon-Lumby as CPBC safe. Vancouver-Yaletown as CPBC-likely. Richmond Centre as NDP likely. North Vancouver-Seymour & Nanaimo-Lantzville as a toss up favouring the CPBC. Juan De Fuca - Malahat as NDP safe.

Just goes to show that votes do matter, and "safe" ridings can be flipped.
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  #955  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 8:10 PM
logicbomb logicbomb is offline
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Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor View Post
we flipped Guildford, NDP is getting it's Majority, thank god
Now down to 9 vote difference in Guildford. 70 more ballots to go. Could be a heavier batch of conservative votes coming in?
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  #956  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 8:13 PM
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At this point BC Conservative supporters and BCNDP supporters should both hope the NDP win Surrey-Guilford and gain a majority instead of having to make a deal with the Greens.
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  #957  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 8:14 PM
mcj mcj is offline
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Originally Posted by chowhou View Post
At this point BC Conservative supporters and BCNDP supporters should both hope the NDP win Surrey-Guilford and gain a majority instead of having to make a deal with the Greens.
Will be interesting to see what happens with the speaker in that case. The NDP would still need to make some deal with the Greens to get them on the chair. I doubt the NDP would want a CPBC speaker.
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  #958  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 8:27 PM
whatnext whatnext is online now
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Originally Posted by chowhou View Post
As of 12PM today, the NDP now lead Surrey-Guilford by 14 votes meaning the NDP have won or lead in 47 seats.

Thank god we're looking at a majority government again.
An NDP majority gov't isn't good news for much of the province. They don't need the Greens to help them kill off our resource industries, they did that quite well on their own.
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  #959  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 8:31 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
An NDP majority gov't isn't good news for much of the province. They don't need the Greens to help them kill off our resource industries, they did that quite well on their own.
It's better news than a Green deal. Believe it or not, things can be worse.
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  #960  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2024, 8:42 PM
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An NDP majority gov't isn't good news for much of the province. They don't need the Greens to help them kill off our resource industries, they did that quite well on their own.
Our resource industries were doing an excellent job in killing off the resources they depend on - call it a Darwin Award.
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