California High Speed Rail Thread

[HusBy]

Originally Posted by craigs

He could also go to the SF Bay Area transportation thread, where the shared route with Caltrain has been discussed extensively.

Thanks. Although it's 119 pages! lol

[mrnyc]

dubz

[Busy Bee]

A Palmdale Republican wants to take 3 billion from high speed rail to subsidize gas for car owners. You cannot make this stuff up. Can these people get any more awful?

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/high-speed-rail/article292697954.html

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

A Palmdale Republican wants to take 3 billion from high speed rail to subsidize gas for car owners. You cannot make this stuff up. Can these people get any more awful?

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/high-speed-rail/article292697954.html

Why are you so shocked? Palmdale is most likely going to be the last city to see CHSR built to it, and unknown number of years in the future, if CHSR ever finishes building it to Palmdale.
While they have plans to do so in the far future, they still don't have the funds to do so. And that $3 Billion is far less than the $90 Billion they have left to find funding for to do so.

Few private enterprises start construction projects without at least a plan to fully fund it. Not CHSR.

[Edmonton_Ian]

Originally Posted by electricron

Why are you so shocked? Palmdale is most likely going to be the last city to see CHSR built to it, and unknown number of years in the future, if CHSR ever finishes building it to Palmdale.
While they have plans to do so in the far future, they still don't have the funds to do so. And that $3 Billion is far less than the $90 Billion they have left to find funding for to do so.

Few private enterprises start construction projects without at least a plan to fully fund it. Not CHSR.

ACTUALLY, It's the opposite. Palmdale is likely to HSR soon but not on the California government line... The High Desert Corridor connector to Victorville is likely to be built soon giving Palmdale a second base of service to and from Vegas... That money would probably pay for the whole 50-mile line and that would be a great use of $ if you ask me...

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Edmonton_Ian

ACTUALLY, It's the opposite. Palmdale is likely to HSR soon but not on the California government line... The High Desert Corridor connector to Victorville is likely to be built soon giving Palmdale a second base of service to and from Vegas... That money would probably pay for the whole 50-mile line and that would be a great use of $ if you ask me...

Problem with your suggestion is that the High Desert Corridor connector was/is to be built by Brightline, not CHSR. The $3 Billion the Representative wishes to cut is from CHSR, not from Brightline.

[TowerDude]

The Federal Government should prioritize CAHSR over Brightline every time.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by TowerDude

The Federal Government should prioritize CAHSR over Brightline every time.

Unless authorized by a specific law, the Federal government does not prioritize any specific project. The money is distributed nation wide by the various programs indiscriminately. It's transit agency eating transit agency to get their share of Federal funds from these programs.
Today, transit agencies across the country are still running Tier 0 EPA polluting diesel locomotives and buses, although there are at least three providers of Tier 4 diesel locomotives. Every transit agency in the country is struggling to find the cash to replace all their Tier 0 locomotives.
For example, the TRE (Trinity Railway Express) just bought 5 Tier 4 locomotives to replace 11 Tier 0 locomotives. They wanted to replace all 11. The Federal government will only subsidize 50% of the total cost. So the TRE is fully funding the first 5, and hope the Federal government will fully fund 5 more and partially fund the last. Not 50% for each individual locomotive, but 50% of the total cost of replacement. So until the Federal government funds their share per the approved program, TRE ordered 5 new locomotives instead of all 11.
This is a program with immediate reductions in air pollution levels with guaranteed costs, not some never ending boondoggle that may or may not ever be completed like CHSR. These immediate benefit programs are what the Federal government should be prioritizing.

[Bonsai Tree]

The federal governmnet has a limited amount of grant funding. What it chooses to do based on that funding is also a product of political reality. CAHSR has become a political project. Ensuring the completion of the IOS would be a significant political achievement, no matter the future of the project. Having trains running at 220 mph will prevent this project from being used as cannon-fodder by obstinate republicans. The IOS will be completed, what happens next is anyones guess. I believe this country has more than enough funds to pursue transformative projects and "immediate benefit" projects. Voting in November will continue to make this possible.

[202_Cyclist]

$54 million coming for high-speed rail project in Central California. Plan includes new station

By Tim Sheehan
Fresno Bee
Sept. 24, 2024


"Plans for a new train station south of Madera serving Amtrak and future high-speed rail trains got a boost this week with a $54 million federal grant.

The grant, announced this week by U.S. Sen. Alex Padilla, will help pay for the construction of a relocated train station near Avenue 12 in Madera County for Amtrak’s San Joaquin trains and high-speed rail service.

Madera’s existing Amtrak station north of the city near Avenue 19 and Road 26 has a sheltered platform where passengers can board trains, but no ticket office or enclosed waiting area..."

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article292974674.html#storylink=cpy

[HusBy]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

"...relocated train station near Avenue 12 in Madera County for Amtrak’s San Joaquin trains and high-speed rail..."

Wait that's a horrible location for a train station. Why would they put it there?

[edale]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

$54 million coming for high-speed rail project in Central California. Plan includes new station

By Tim Sheehan
Fresno Bee
Sept. 24, 2024


"Plans for a new train station south of Madera serving Amtrak and future high-speed rail trains got a boost this week with a $54 million federal grant.

The grant, announced this week by U.S. Sen. Alex Padilla, will help pay for the construction of a relocated train station near Avenue 12 in Madera County for Amtrak’s San Joaquin trains and high-speed rail service.

Madera’s existing Amtrak station north of the city near Avenue 19 and Road 26 has a sheltered platform where passengers can board trains, but no ticket office or enclosed waiting area..."

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article292974674.html#storylink=cpy

Outrageous, and another misstep for the CAHSR project. $175 million to build a new station in the middle of nowhere that will serve very few people. The article states that the current Madera Amtrak station has "extremely low ridership", and HSR was not supposed to stop there at all until 2016 when Madera County officials lobbied to get the stop added. So this is a political concession that will add hundreds of millions of dollars to the cost of the project, slow the HSR line down when it eventually is running by forcing it to make yet another stop, and not even serve the community of Madera due to the ridiculous station location. Spending money on this when project officials state in the article that they don't have funding to construct HSR segments beyond the Central Valley starter line is just maddening to me.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by edale

So this is a political concession that will add hundreds of millions of dollars to the cost of the project, slow the HSR line down when it eventually is running by forcing it to make yet another stop, and not even serve the community of Madera due to the ridiculous station location.

As far as it affecting the speeds of CHSR runs, the stops at this station will be scheduled for timed transfers, so you are likely only going to have 5-6 HSR trains stopping here in a day.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

As far as it affecting the speeds of CHSR runs, the stops at this station will be scheduled for timed transfers, so you are likely only going to have 5-6 HSR trains stopping here in a day.

If so few HSR trains will be using the station, why build it?

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by electricron

If so few HSR trains will be using the station, why build it?

Because providing interconnectivity between HSR and existing and complimentary Amtrak regional services like the San Joachins has been a longstanding priority. That said the cost of the station seems very high. You should be able to build such a station for 40-60 million, and that would be a very nice station.

[HusBy]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Because providing interconnectivity between HSR and existing and complimentary Amtrak regional services like the San Joachins has been a longstanding priority. That said the cost of the station seems very high. You should be able to build such a station for 40-60 million, and that would be a very nice station.

Ok I can buy the interconnectivity even though you only have to go to Fresno for the same thing. But why 1. relocate the station for this reason and 2. locate it in such an inconvenient location. If you're going to move it, then put it closer to town, ie that little area called Storey or just off hwy 145 so it can be served conveniently by buses, existing traffic patterns, and have a case for building up a new town center around it. The new location is absurd... even if it is the path of least resistance.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by HusBy

Ok I can buy the interconnectivity even though you only have to go to Fresno for the same thing. But why 1. relocate the station for this reason and 2. locate it in such an inconvenient location. If you're going to move it, then put it closer to town, ie that little area called Storey or just off hwy 145 so it can be served conveniently by buses, existing traffic patterns, and have a case for building up a new town center around it. The new location is absurd... even if it is the path of least resistance.

Why spend all the money buying land to route trains through central business districts when you are going to place the station far away from them anyways?

[sopas ej]

From Urbanize Los Angeles:

Here's how Brightline West could connect with California High Speed Rail

A 54-mile corridor separates Palmdale from Victor Valley



October 07, 2024, 8:00AM
Steven Sharp

Along the I-15 Freeway in the Inland Empire, heavy construction is set to commence next year for Brightline West, the $12-billion high-speed rail line which will connect Southern California with Las Vegas. Simultaneously, California High Speed Rail continues to make progress in the Central Valley, and could one day make its way southward into the Los Angeles area. In anticipation of a day when both services are up and running in Southern California, steps are being taken to connect them.

A September 2024 presentation published by the High Desert Corridor Joint Power Agency offers a look at the proposed High Desert Corridor high-speed rail line, which would span a roughly 54-mile corridor between Palmdale and Victor Valley. This would allow for direct service on Brightline West between Los Angeles Union Station and Las Vegas, rather the current route which is to terminate outside of Los Angeles County in Rancho Cucamonga.

Currently in the environmental review phase, the rail line would commence from the proposed Palmdale Transportation Center, which would connect California High Speed Rail and Metrolink's Antelope Valley Line. From there, the High Desert Corridor Line would veer east through mostly undeveloped land in unincorporated Los Angeles County, primarily between State Route 138 and State Route 18.

[...]

[38 Geary]

^



Why not connect it to Phase II of CAHSR (the LA to SD route) since it'll be swinging through ONT? The additional track connecting from the Rancho Cucamonga Brightline West station to wherever the CAHSR ONT station will be shouldn't be more than 4-6 miles in length, far shorter than this proposed 54 mile route. Or really, the most simple solution, interline Brightline with the existing Metrolink San Bernardino Line, if the ultimate goal is to provide direct service between Union Station and Las Vegas.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by homebucket

^



Why not connect it to Phase II of CAHSR (the LA to SD route) since it'll be swinging through ONT? The additional track connecting from the Rancho Cucamonga Brightline West station to wherever the CAHSR ONT station will be shouldn't be more than 4-6 miles in length, far shorter than this proposed 54 mile route. Or really, the most simple solution, interline Brightline with the existing Metrolink San Bernardino Line, if the ultimate goal is to provide direct service between Union Station and Las Vegas.

My guess is because Phase II is many years after Phase I?

And Apple Valley to Palmdale was already in the planning stages, it was talked about on page 211 (High Desert Corridor): https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180558&page=211