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  #7981  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2024, 3:16 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by Horus View Post
Maybe I've not been paying attention, but how did we get to the point where the ONLY options for LRT frequency are 5 minutes or 10 minutes?
Is 8 trains/hour not feasible for some reason? Seems that would line up nicely with the 15 and 30 minute bus frequencies.

I haven't done the math but there are certain ratios that work and others that just see trains waiting at one end to leave thus keeping labour costs constant. You still save the per km fee but labour is probably the largest item.
Actually from what i have seen they seem to beat the 10 minute headways. So maybe that is the maximum you'd wait given the current schedule.
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  #7982  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2024, 3:42 PM
LRTeverywhere LRTeverywhere is offline
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
I haven't done the math but there are certain ratios that work and others that just see trains waiting at one end to leave thus keeping labour costs constant. You still save the per km fee but labour is probably the largest item.
Actually from what i have seen they seem to beat the 10 minute headways. So maybe that is the maximum you'd wait given the current schedule.
I think your correct about that, Amilcar was saying something along those lines at Commision and Tierney wasnt getting why we couldn't do something like 7 or 8 mins, she said it would end up not saving any money.

Last edited by LRTeverywhere; Sep 13, 2024 at 3:42 PM. Reason: Typo
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  #7983  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2024, 10:47 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Moving to 10 min off-peak saves them $600k this year. In a $740M budget. They spent $600k on bollards around City Hall. I hope the feds and Queen's Park don't give this city another cent as long as current mayor and council are here.
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  #7984  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2024, 7:57 PM
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Moving to 10 min off-peak saves them $600k this year. In a $740M budget. They spent $600k on bollards around City Hall. I hope the feds and Queen's Park don't give this city another cent as long as current mayor and council are here.
Unbelievable right? At the very least saving face with the public is worth 600k.

Why is there no advertising in any of the trains? I' the last person to advocate for ads but it seems like a no brainer to have them as would be anywhere else.
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  #7985  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2024, 8:53 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis View Post
Unbelievable right? At the very least saving face with the public is worth 600k.

Why is there no advertising in any of the trains? I' the last person to advocate for ads but it seems like a no brainer to have them as would be anywhere else.
It's not just incompetence. Saving $600k by cutting off peak transit seems deliberately gratuitous. They genuinely don't care at this point. Just imagine how bad things will be when Stage 2 is done.
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  #7986  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2024, 11:55 PM
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Provincial report backs Ottawa's claim of transit underfunding
A study by Ontario's Financial Accountability Office says Ottawa will see the steepest decline of anywhere in the province next year in per-resident subsidies for transit.

Blair Crawford, Ottawa Citizen
Published Sep 14, 2024 • Last updated 1 hour ago • 3 minute read


For the City of Ottawa, which already complains it doesn’t get its fair share of transit funding from the province, things are about to get worse.

A study released this past week by Ontario’s Financial Accountability Office says Ottawa will see the steepest decline of anywhere in the province next year in per-resident subsidies for transit. The reasons? Declining gas tax revenue and the end of special post-pandemic “Safe Restart” funding.

Ottawa will be the hardest hit of five regions where subsidies will decline in 2024-25, the report shows.

“The FAO projects that the Ottawa economic region will experience the largest reduction in per-resident subsidies, from $59.61 in 2022-23 to $31.91 in 2024-25, primarily due to the conclusion of the Safe Restart Agreement,” says the report that was released on Thursday.

Windsor-Sarnia, London, Stratford-Bruce Peninsula, and Kingston-Pembroke are the other regions hit by the reductions.

In contrast, the per-resident subsidy in Toronto will rise to $196.49 in 2024-25 from $191 in 2022-23, the report says, largely because of heavy subsidies provided to the regional carrier, Metrolinx, which serves commuters in Toronto and the entire Golden Horseshoe area.

The greatest increases in per-resident subsidies will occur in the province’s far northwest and northeast, areas served by the regional Ontario Northland service.

The average per-person subsidy across the province was $111.16, a number dragged upward by the Toronto effect. Ottawa’s per-resident subsidy of $59.61 was comparable to the $59.82 figure in the Hamilton-Niagara region and significantly higher than Kitchener-Waterloo-Barrie ($36.76) and Kingston-Pembroke ($19.29).

The Toronto Transit Commission sits head and shoulders above other transit networks when it comes to provincial operation subsidies, but it is also by far the biggest and busiest.

The TTC serves a population of 3.0 million compared to 1.1 million in Ottawa, yet TTC had a ridership of 321 million in 2022 (the most recent ridership numbers used in the report). That’s more than six times greater than OC Transpo’s 50.8 million riders that same year.

Both the TTC and OC Transpo were hit hard by the COVID-19 pandemic and the work-from-home and hybrid-work models that came with it.

TTC ridership declined by 330 million (62.4 per cent) between 2019 and 2021, but rebounded to 60.6 per cent of pre-pandemic levels by 2022, the report says.

OC Transpo’s ridership dropped by 66.3 million rides (67.4 per cent) from 2019 to 2021, but only returned to 51.7 per cent of pre-pandemic levels by 2022.

Ottawa is last in Ontario when it comes to generating its own transit revenue. Just 19 per cent of OC Transpo’s operating revenue came from fares, with the remaining 81 per cent coming from provincial and federal subsidies, the FAO says. The TTC, in contrast, generated 35.9 per cent of its revenue from fares and 64.1 per cent from government subsidies. The provincial average of own-source revenue was “about a third,” the FAO reports said.

The FAO report did not look into capital costs, an expenditure that Ottawa Mayor Mark Sutcliffe has repeatedly raised in his “Fairness for Ottawa” campaign.

When Ottawa struck its deal to build the Confederation Line LRT, which celebrated its fifth birthday on Saturday, the cost was to be shared equally, with municipal, provincial and federal governments each paying a third. But constructions costs soared during the pandemic and ongoing and costly reliability problems have ballooned the LRT pricetag. Ottawa taxpayers have borne those increases alone, leaving the city covering nearly half the cost of the $4.6-billion system.

More recent agreements in Toronto have seen the province pay the full cost of expensive subway expansions. The Ontario-Toronto New Deal Agreement announced in November 2023 included a one-time $300-million Subway and Transit Safety, Recovery and Sustainable Operations Fund to the TTC in 2023-24 and another three-year, $330-million Finch West and Eglinton Crosstown LRT operating support subsidy.

In contrast, the New Deal for Ottawa announced by Premier Doug Ford in April included money for a new interchange on Highway 417 at Barnsdale Road and a proposal for the province to assume responsibility for Regional Road 174, but no money earmarked for transit.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...backs-ottawas-claim-transit-underfunding
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  #7987  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2024, 3:06 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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What federal subsidy is there?
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  #7988  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2024, 4:08 PM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
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On the one hand, I think we should get more help from the Ontario government. On the other hand, their dumpster fires seem even bigger than ours. I didn't realize they hadn't even started driver training for Eglinton. Given what's happening in Calgary as well for the green line which sounds like a repeat of our North South LRT fiasco, it seems like there is not a lot of hope for transit in this country.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2024/09/eglinton-crosstown-lrt-milestone-2024/
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  #7989  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2024, 6:57 PM
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Originally Posted by kmcamp View Post
On the one hand, I think we should get more help from the Ontario government. On the other hand, their dumpster fires seem even bigger than ours. I didn't realize they hadn't even started driver training for Eglinton.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2024/09/eglinton-crosstown-lrt-milestone-2024/
And somehow Doug won't fund anymore transit in Ottawa until we "get our act together" or whatever, while Metrolinx that's arguably a worse offender gets Billions upon Billions for new transit projects.
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  #7990  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2024, 7:19 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
And somehow Doug won't fund anymore transit in Ottawa until we "get our act together" or whatever, while Metrolinx that's arguably a worse offender gets Billions upon Billions for new transit projects.
Convenient excuse. Expect Polievre to trot out frequently the line the gatekeepers have not stepped aside so no federal funding is forthecoming.
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  #7991  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2024, 4:46 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
Convenient excuse. Expect Polievre to trot out frequently the line the gatekeepers have not stepped aside so no federal funding is forthecoming.
The gatekeeper on housing in Ontario is his frenemy Doug.
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  #7992  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2024, 5:05 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
The gatekeeper on housing in Ontario is his frenemy Doug.
Assuming Ford is re-elected they will need to get on the same page and deliver something as there won't be anyone else to blame.

Ford tried opening a bit of the greenbelt got his fingers burned and now seems indifferent again.

Maybe post re-election with Federal cover and funds he goes all in on a Conservative solution. Open up green belts and build freeways to the new housing.
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  #7993  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2024, 6:16 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Assuming Ford is re-elected they will need to get on the same page and deliver something as there won't be anyone else to blame.
They will get on the same page. That page is titled NIMBYism.

Poilievre's "housing plan" is bullshit, because he knows that faced with the choice between federal housing for things like transit, and preserving the precious "single family home" zoning status quo, cities will go with the latter.

He and his party are not big on public transit in any form, and his caucus, in particular, is riddled with NIMBYists who, despite their supposed freedom-loving ways, want low-density "SFH" suburbs preserved at any cost.
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  #7994  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2024, 2:07 PM
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Federal workers return to the parking puzzle
Monthly passes, valet parking introduced to help manage sudden demand

Matthew Kupfer · CBC News
Posted: Sep 19, 2024 4:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: 6 hours ago


The recent return of federal workers to their offices three days a week has more commuters circling the block for scarce parking spots in downtown Ottawa and Gatineau.

The sudden spike in demand for parking last week led one federal complex this week to limit parking to holders of $195 monthly passes, even though most workers don't need them five days a week.

Public Services and Procurement Canada (PSPC) said the monthly pass requirement at the Laurier-Taché garage came into effect Monday because of last week's "heavy vehicle congestion, which created safety risks" at the facility, which mainly serves workers at Place du Portage in Gatineau's downtown Hull sector.

<more>

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/federal-workers-return-to-the-parking-puzzle-1.7325921
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  #7995  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2024, 2:11 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
They will get on the same page. That page is titled NIMBYism.

Poilievre's "housing plan" is bullshit, because he knows that faced with the choice between federal housing for things like transit, and preserving the precious "single family home" zoning status quo, cities will go with the latter.

He and his party are not big on public transit in any form, and his caucus, in particular, is riddled with NIMBYists who, despite their supposed freedom-loving ways, want low-density "SFH" suburbs preserved at any cost.
This doesn't make it bullshit. This means he can cut funding to transit and have an excuse. Maybe should the economy rebound and finances look good he will start a next generation of highway construction.

Bottom line there is no rescue coming for OCTranspo. We are in deep trouble. We need to find a massive new source of revenue or cut to the bone and make due. Probably a bit of both.
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  #7996  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2024, 3:02 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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This doesn't make it bullshit.
It's bullshit in the sense that his "housing plan" isn't actually about housing.

Quote:
Bottom line there is no rescue coming for OCTranspo. We are in deep trouble. We need to find a massive new source of revenue or cut to the bone and make due. Probably a bit of both.
There's a massive source of revenue out there. It's the gap between the actual municipal tax increases over the past 15 or 20 years, and the tax increases as they would have been if they had kept pace with inflation, including pre-COVID "normal" inflation, rather than having been O'Brienned, Watsonned, and Sutcliffed for crass, and short-sighted political purposes.

c/Conservative politicians like to draw the (false) comparison between household and public finances. There have been times when I've had, or chosen to deviate from my financial goals over the years, such as having to pare back on my savings plan for some other life event, then playing catch-up later. The longer you delay that catch-up, and the further you put yourself behind by your other financial decisions, the more difficult that catch-up is going to be.

I believe economists call this FAFO or something. Or maybe that's not economists.

Ottawa (and, to be fair, many other municipalities in this province and country) are entering the FO phase of this portion of their financial histories.

We literally can't afford to be cheapskates any more, not with current needs, future needs, and a tsunami of legacy infrastructure costs bearing down on us after nearly a century of low-density sprawl.
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  #7997  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2024, 4:06 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
It's bullshit in the sense that his "housing plan" isn't actually about housing.



There's a massive source of revenue out there. It's the gap between the actual municipal tax increases over the past 15 or 20 years, and the tax increases as they would have been if they had kept pace with inflation, including pre-COVID "normal" inflation, rather than having been O'Brienned, Watsonned, and Sutcliffed for crass, and short-sighted political purposes.

c/Conservative politicians like to draw the (false) comparison between household and public finances. There have been times when I've had, or chosen to deviate from my financial goals over the years, such as having to pare back on my savings plan for some other life event, then playing catch-up later. The longer you delay that catch-up, and the further you put yourself behind by your other financial decisions, the more difficult that catch-up is going to be.

I believe economists call this FAFO or something. Or maybe that's not economists.

Ottawa (and, to be fair, many other municipalities in this province and country) are entering the FO phase of this portion of their financial histories.

We literally can't afford to be cheapskates any more, not with current needs, future needs, and a tsunami of legacy infrastructure costs bearing down on us after nearly a century of low-density sprawl.
Yeah after I clicked Submit Reply I realized what you meant and agree the word works. But it is a very effective policy for achieving its goals.
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  #7998  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2024, 4:49 PM
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
Yeah after I clicked Submit Reply I realized what you meant and agree the word works. But it is a very effective policy for achieving its goals.
On the taxes vs inflation thing, since it's so obvious that a significant portion of the population just doesn't get it (is is willfully ignorant), it sure would be nice if we could start talking more about taxes relative to inflation in the media. If we looked at this way, the past three years would have all been cuts (2021 - 0.4% tax decrease; 2022 - 3.8% tax decrease; 2023 - 1.4% tax decrease). And then you can see why city services are suffering.
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  #7999  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2024, 4:54 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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On the taxes vs inflation thing, since it's so obvious that a significant portion of the population just doesn't get it (is is willfully ignorant), it sure would be nice if we could start talking more about taxes relative to inflation in the media. If we looked at this way, the past three years would have all been cuts (2021 - 0.4% tax decrease; 2022 - 3.8% tax decrease; 2023 - 1.4% tax decrease). And then you can see why city services are suffering.
In fairness municipal taxes are confusing. Income tax rates haven't changed since 2017ish. In fact they have gone down as the brackets go up with inflation. But the money raised goes up as peoples incomes rise. Not only economic growth but basic inflation. As you say a 2.5% tax increase is falling behind. But falling behind is what a lot of people want.
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  #8000  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2024, 12:09 AM
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They just can't help themselves can they?

https://old.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/1fkuhos/5_canceled_busses_within_2_hours/

RIP Carlton students.

That is absurd.
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