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  #1  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2024, 6:39 PM
Nintentario Nintentario is offline
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The Economic, Human Cost of London's Car-Dependency

Hey everyone, I'd like to invite a discussion about the negative economic impacts of car use in London, Ontario.

The understanding that some folks have in this city concerning the impact of car-dependency on society's economic bottom line is frustrating. I watch the headlines and often read about Londoner after Londoner killed by another car driver, either in a car, bike, or simply a pedestrian. All too often every single one of these events is followed by armchair economists insisting individually driving their 4-person car over hectares of 3.5m wide roads is the most efficient and beneficial use of resources for our city of London, Ontario - subtly suggesting or even outright stating that these deaths are normal, acceptable, and the status quo is preferred (unless they themselves or someone they love has been impacted...)

Here's a recap of the last few months of headlines involving car drivers hitting Londoners with their cars:


https://imgur.com/a/JT1b1d9

alt-text:
| Date | Location | Outcome for Driver | Outcome for Pedestrian | Truncated Headline |
|------------|------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------|---------------------------|--------------------------|
| Jun 22, 2024 | Wellington & Commissioners roads | No consequences | Taken to hospital | Police probe shut... |
| Jun 17, 2024 | Wonderland N & Oxford West | Fled scene | Serious injuries | Pedestrian serio... |
| Jun 4, 2024 | Dundas & Colborne streets | No information | Unknown injuries | Person on electr... |
| Jun 22, 2024 | Sunset Road & Fingal Line, St. Thomas | Fled scene | Killed | Police investiga... |
| Mar 13, 2024 | Adelaide Street bridge near King Street | Remained at scene | Killed | London pedestria... |
| Mar 7, 2024 | Commissioners Road East near Highbury Avenue | Remained at scene | Serious injuries | Roads reopen aft... |
| Jan 24, 2024 | Highway 4 near 14 Mile Road | No information | Killed | Pedestrian kille... |
| Mar 13, 2024 | Adelaide Street North bridge, south of King | Remained at scene | Killed | Pedestrian dies ... |
| Jan 12, 2024 | Veterans Memorial Parkway, north of Hamilton | Remained at scene | Life-threatening | Pedestrian fight... |
| Nov 13, 2023 | Adelaide Street North and Glenora Drive | Remained at scene | Killed | Pedestrian kille... |


As someone who bikes regularly to their job, allowing my partner to drive my car to work enables us to be a 1-car family, thus saving at least $350/month, which is an extra $4,200 in disposable income we spend at local businesses. Culturally, I know for a fact that if I'm the one in the headlines next, the very same folks will come out to make the same comments that, at best, stem from a fundamental misunderstanding of how civil finance and walkability interact to effect the average London taxpayer.


Let's break down the real economic impact of car dependency in London:

1. Cars Hurt the Economy by Killing Londoners
• Each life lost represents a significant economic blow to our city. These aren't just statistics; they're taxpayers, workers, family members, and consumers, removed from our local economy.
• For instance, if we conservatively estimate each person's economic activity at $50,000 per year, losing at least four citizens annually (as we do in London apparently) equates to a $200,000 annual loss to our economy.
• The ripple effect on families is substantial. Any income earner's death can cripple a family's finances, increase reliance on deficit-facing services like mental health care, and reducing overall economic productivity of the entire family.

2. Cars Hurt the Economy by Reducing Business Traffic
• Our obsession with parking has turned vibrant areas like our downtown area into concrete slabs of road and parking. Just look at the difference between the Victoria Park area, the foot traffic those businesses have, and then look merely four blocks south to the parking lots surrounding London's train station – which area generates more economic activity per square foot?
• Studies show that walkable cities have higher property values and more successful businesses, which leads to higher city revenue for services like road maintenance and traffic enforcement. For example, a study by the City of Toronto found that pedestrian-friendly areas saw 40% lower commercial vacancy rates compared to car-centric areas.
• The land used for downtown parking, especially parking lots adjacent to the Bus Rapid Transit stops, is an objectively poor economic use of the space. One might even find several locations downtown where a parking spot may generate less revenue than a mature tree in the same spot - the knock-on effects of shade, walkability, air quality, street traffic, would replace what the square footage a parking spot would earn in annual revenue.

3. Car Dependency Diminishes Livability and Societal Health
• The "loneliness epidemic" isn't just a social issue; it's an economic one. Isolated people are less productive and more likely to require mental health services. Walkable areas are more social, and high sociality is directly linked to happiness - and happy citizens are more productive citizens (since we don't value happiness outright in Canada ~gestures angrily around at everything~).
• Noise pollution from traffic isn't just annoying – it's linked to decreased property values and increased health care costs. The WHO estimates that traffic noise in Western Europe alone costs society at least €40 billion per year. Our downtown is dead quiet at times when there's no cars driving by, but in contrast - Frank & Furter's patio on King's absolutely sucks with the amount of motor exhaust settling onto your plate. Barney's consistently has motorcycles intentionally ripping away from their patio too.
• Air pollution from cars contributes to health issues, increasing healthcare costs and reducing productivity. The Canadian Medical Association estimated that air pollution costs Canada $8 billion annually in health care expenses.
• Car dependency disproportionately affects our most vulnerable citizens. Those who can't afford or are unable to drive a car face significant barriers to employment, healthcare, and social participation.

No one's suggesting to ban anything in a hyperbolic manner, though we should make the realization that in later decades every single Londoner will benefit from "severe" policies like congestion taxes, for those insisting not to use the (if-ever-practical) rapid transit system downtown. Every Londoner would economically benefit from a mental shift in our infrastructure planning towards a city with less cars. This means:

• Investing in protected bike lanes and pedestrian infrastructure by reducing 4-lane roads to 2-lane roads. (Candidates like York St., Richmond St.)
• Improving public transit frequency, coverage, and holding fares against inflation for several years
• Review each parking spot in the downtown core, first removing city on-street parking spots, whilst changing policy to discourage private surface lots.
• Enable trees to be planted immediately next to roadways, granted things like utilities enable.


By making these changes, we can create a London that's not only more economically vibrant but also safer, healthier, and more financially accessible for working class families.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you feel like London is shifting in a better or worse direction in this sense?


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  #2  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2024, 7:52 PM
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I’m in London right now visiting from BC, London is where I grew up. As a resident of a highly walkable part of Metro Vancouver, I am always struck at how car dependent London is whenever I’m back. Where my parents live in the west end, there’s no walkability whatsoever - you have to drive everywhere, or pay $3.50 to catch a bus that comes once an hour on Sundays or every 30 minutes the rest of the week. It’s incredibly isolating. And there’s a notable lack of “third places” - if you want a coffee shop, your only choice is Tim Hortons in this particular area.

Also striking is the continued construction of single family home subdivisions, in areas like Lambeth, and outside the city around Komoka - with very little commercial development that one can walk to. Most of the new areas have no public transit whatsoever.

I am also struck at how dead the streets are, both in the suburbs and downtown. Lots of cars but very few people. (The heat wave this week may be contributing to this, in fairness)

There are more walkable parts of London than where I grew up, but it’s still nothing like the dense areas of Metro Vancouver, or Toronto, or Montreal.

London’s problems will take decades to fix as many Londoners are happy with the status quo and have chosen this community because of its car dependency and Quiet Neighbourhoods™
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  #3  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2024, 12:04 AM
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Simple fact is that as much as we bitch, London isn't really that hard to get around by car and easy to park wherever you want to go. We went to a sold out concert at Bud Gardens Saturday night, got there 45 minutes after doors opened and had no problem parking a 5 minute walk away. Sure, a couple streets are hard to travel a couple times a day but we aren't gridlocked.

The transit system is pretty basic, our civic leaders all drive cars, none take the bus until election time when they are invited for a ride along with the LTC GM to discuss transit issues, so there is no real political will to improve it. This new BRT system hardly has any fans, even amongst pro-transit people, and the city doesn't even have budget set up to start to operate it when the first routes are ready to go in a couple years. Never mind that it's not being built to serve the people that would probably use it most, university students. Current routes are not very conveniently scheduled and too downtown specific. We lived in Byron and if my kids had to take LTC to or from Saunders, it would take as long as it would to get to Montcalm the other side of town, because of how crappy the routes were timed.
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  #4  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2024, 12:49 PM
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London lacks proper car infrastructure as well which adds to frustration. Most car-centric cities have many 6 lane roads (sometimes 8 lanes) and some municipal freeways and/or bypasses.

Since London has none of this stuff, those longer-distance journeys take place on narrow city streets and can cause a lot of stress for drivers, causing them to take more aggressive risks on the road.

The good news is we don't really need to do expensive transformative projects to turn these blights of infrastructure into something else. However, that also means the progressive news stories about them are gone as well.

Not Just Bikes and others like to rip on London and I do concede he has many valid points, but the city is either average on some things or well above average when it comes to big 'stroads' or inner city freeways that cut neighbourhoods off from one-another.

We're making good progress in some areas such as the BRT (half-assed but something), adding bike lanes and some are even decently-protected bike lanes, removing pork-chop style right turn lanes at intersection rebuilds (these are terrible for pedestrians), road diets, lowering speed limits, etc. There is still lots to be done but I think London is making decent progress... sure maybe not as much as we'd like but at least it's something.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2024, 12:39 AM
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"Two-vehicle crash claims one life, sends two others to hospital east of London"

East Zorra-Tavistock, north of Woodstock. A rural road intersected by a two stop signs.

One person killed, one seriously injured, and one taken to the hospital as a precaution.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/cr...ock-16th-line-cassel-side-road-1.7255105

~~~~~~~
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  #6  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2024, 2:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintentario View Post
"Two-vehicle crash claims one life, sends two others to hospital east of London"

East Zorra-Tavistock, north of Woodstock. A rural road intersected by a two stop signs.

One person killed, one seriously injured, and one taken to the hospital as a precaution.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/cr...ock-16th-line-cassel-side-road-1.7255105

~~~~~~~

You presumably have posted this news article in support of this thread you started advocating the reduction/restrictions in personal automobile use (and reduction/removal of infrastructure to support that). In that, you assert that the personal use of automobiles should be replaced whenever possible by expanded public transit, bicycles, walking, 15 minute neighbourhoods, etc. You even mention a congestion tax to make it financially impractical to use a personal vehicle.

In the news piece you posted above, the traffic incident occurred in a very rural location. How does the occurrence of this particular incident support your assertions? The area is mainly agricultural, with homes and businesses widely spread apart. The space between towns is measured in 10’s of kilometres or more. How would the alternatives to traditional automobile use that you list be employed (or imposed) in a location such as this? How does the tragedy of a fatality in a car accident in a location and circumstance such as this one support your theories about personal automobile reductions and replacement with the alternatives that you outlined above?
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  #7  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2024, 4:22 PM
Nintentario Nintentario is offline
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Originally Posted by Snark View Post
You presumably have posted this news article in support of this thread you started advocating the reduction/restrictions in personal automobile use (and reduction/removal of infrastructure to support that). In that, you assert that the personal use of automobiles should be replaced whenever possible by expanded public transit, bicycles, walking, 15 minute neighbourhoods, etc. You even mention a congestion tax to make it financially impractical to use a personal vehicle.

In the news piece you posted above, the traffic incident occurred in a very rural location. How does the occurrence of this particular incident support your assertions? The area is mainly agricultural, with homes and businesses widely spread apart. The space between towns is measured in 10’s of kilometres or more. How would the alternatives to traditional automobile use that you list be employed (or imposed) in a location such as this? How does the tragedy of a fatality in a car accident in a location and circumstance such as this one support your theories about personal automobile reductions and replacement with the alternatives that you outlined above?
Rural areas can benefit from multi-use trails as well. Essex County has a network of rural bike paths that can be used to travel inbetween towns. As well, the abundancy and over-reliance on cars in our transit network increases the total amount of cars driving on all roads at all times - period. If everyone needs a car, there will be more raw car deaths. It's simple statistics. I don't want these people to die - yet they did, and it's absolutely avoidable.

These people could have been your family members - what if the other car simply wasn't there because our culture encouraged less people to drive in general? Currently, lots of city folk speed down rural roads unsafely to avoid congestion in the city, too. Heck, I totally forgot about the possibility that Southwestern Ontario could run a between-town bus system like they did the Greyhound, allowing members of these rural communities to safely access other municipalities - but our culture doesn't understand that transit systems don't need to turn a profit when the R.O.I. on the local economy is greater than the cost of the transit system. The many rural villages in the U.K. connected by bus comes to mind.

Last edited by Nintentario; Jul 6, 2024 at 4:33 PM.
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  #8  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2024, 11:45 PM
Nintentario Nintentario is offline
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"One hurt in crash involving cyclist: London police"

City area - Adelaide and Cheapside

"One person was taken to hospital with unknown injuries following the collision at the intersection of Rabb and Boulee."

https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/16-year-old-charged-with-careless-driving-in-deadly-crash
~~~~~~~
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  #9  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2024, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintentario View Post
Rural areas can benefit from multi-use trails as well. Essex County has a network of rural bike paths that can be used to travel inbetween towns. As well, the abundancy and over-reliance on cars in our transit network increases the total amount of cars driving on all roads at all times - period. If everyone needs a car, there will be more raw car deaths. It's simple statistics. I don't want these people to die - yet they did, and it's absolutely avoidable.

These people could have been your family members - what if the other car simply wasn't there because our culture encouraged less people to drive in general? Currently, lots of city folk speed down rural roads unsafely to avoid congestion in the city, too. Heck, I totally forgot about the possibility that Southwestern Ontario could run a between-town bus system like they did the Greyhound, allowing members of these rural communities to safely access other municipalities - but our culture doesn't understand that transit systems don't need to turn a profit when the R.O.I. on the local economy is greater than the cost of the transit system. The many rural villages in the U.K. connected by bus comes to mind.
I've taken that road to get to Costco from where I live in NW Woodstock. Pretty hard to do a Costco run by transit bus.
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Old Posted Jul 19, 2024, 5:42 PM
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That is quite a casualty list, in such a short time period.
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  #11  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2024, 3:29 PM
Nintentario Nintentario is offline
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That is quite a casualty list, in such a short time period.
Time period? More like time span - a continuous span, not a discrete period.


This amount of death and destruction caused by private vehicle use will not stop and will continue at a constant rate into the future (approximately 0.54% of all Canadians, culled annually) - the party won't stop just cuz I drive in! Ontario has approximately ~500 fatal collisions annually. (London having 447,255/15,801,768) 2.8% of Ontario's population, we can crudely, roughly, expect 14.15 Londoners to die this year. "Vision Zero"? "Vision 10-Fatalities/Year" would be a more attainable goal.

"The 530 fatal collisions in Ontario in 2021 resulted in the deaths of 592 persons, including 375 drivers, 95 passengers, and 92 pedestrians." (Source: https://www.g1.ca/driving-statistics/) - and this rate has been constant for the past decade. So that's 592 Ontarians sacrificed to the SunGod-er I mean CarGod each year.

Who knows! Maybe this year your children or loved ones will pull the lucky number! I wonder if private-vehicle advocates change their mind when reality hits too close to home... oh well!



July 29th, 2024: a 42-year old man was killed, no consequences for the killer. No consequential changes to the road design planned.
https://london.ctvnews.ca/cyclist-killed-after-being-struck-by-transport-truck-1.6984050

July 30th, 2024, three people critically injured, one life-threatening injury. No consequential changes to the road design planned.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/thames-centre-crash-three-people-hospital-1.7280655

July 25th, 2024, ~16 year old boy hanging on for life in the hospital. No consequential changes to the road design planned.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/te...-and-dirt-bike-in-south-london-1.7268972

July 19th, 2019, (current article past event) but a good reminder that the pain never goes away when you lose a loved one to a private vehicle. The absolute arbitrary, preventable, and senseless nature of these deaths leaves no closure, no solace, and very little room to heal. As Londoners interested in the city's development, it's important we all take a moment to open each of these pictures, full screen, and stare into the eyes of these boys. To not do so is to invite the potential of building a city with the death of children numbly designed into its fabric.
Pictures from CBC: https://imgur.com/a/MRoPfMa
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/hi...left-lifelong-friend-with-ptsd-1.6907180

"...the night he rushed to his friend's side, moments after Roby was struck by a car and thrown more than 30 feet in the air and onto the shoulder of the road."

"...the pair were riding on the curb of Exeter Road single file..."

"...I was covered in blood..."


No consequential changes to the road design planned.



~~~~~~~

Last edited by Nintentario; Jul 31, 2024 at 3:57 PM.
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  #12  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2024, 3:33 PM
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https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/driv...ison-sentence-crash-left-teen-wheelchair

"Tristan Roby was cycling with a friend along the road to go night fishing at a creek near Lambeth – a celebration of Tristan’s birthday – when he was struck by the vehicle."
"'He feels, he hears, he sees, he responds to verbal commands. He’s just trapped inside his body,' she said."

"Bleck, 31, was convicted a year ago... Late last week, Bleck was granted bail... "


Again, no plans to change the design in the road are planned. This is unfortunately being treated as an "oh well, oopsie", and we as a society have decided this not be our problem.

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Old Posted Aug 13, 2024, 5:51 PM
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https://london.ctvnews.ca/vehicle-collides-with-zurich-residence-1.6998370

"...a collision this evening between a vehicle and a residence."

I'm sure that family won't be financially impacted by having a truck-sized hole in their house.

I wonder what would be more efficient, letting every 18 year old boy have uninterrupted access to unecessarily oversized pickup trucks, or investing in inter-city busses, cycle paths, street cars...

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Old Posted Aug 18, 2024, 6:28 PM
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https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/child-struck-by-vehicle-in-londons-old-south-neighbourhood

One child hit by car-driver in Wortley Village.

No clue why Wortley Village between Craig & Briscoe isn't pedestrianized. Absolutely no clue in the world.
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Old Posted Aug 19, 2024, 3:17 PM
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^awful to hear.


Some asshole in a big, jacked, black RAM prickup truck rolled coal on me and my wife as we were driving westward on Sarnia Road on Friday, just after the intersection of Wonderland Road.

He had passed me very aggressively before the intersection, with all the extreme noise you have come to expect from these massive tank-like prickup trucks. The driver is sitting there (you know exactly what he looks like), in the next lane, waiting for the light to change (I glanced a quick look). My lane pulls ahead first, then he roars ahead of me at 90km/hr or more, and as soon as he pulls ahead of me into my lane, he rolls coal.

The rage that hit me was incredibly palpable. I saw myself driving after him, opening up his door, and pounding his face repeatedly. Of course I didn't do this (a younger, single, version of me probably would have, though).

But I swear to God, the next time I see that truck, I am going to get his plate number and call the police.

What the hell is wrong with people that they feel the need to spend thousands to modify their engine in order to spitefully spray people with toxic fumes? This is assault.

Was it because I glanced a look at this turd at the intersection? Was it because my wife is of Asian descent?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/...02404/the-cruel-practice-of-rolling-coal
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Old Posted Aug 19, 2024, 3:51 PM
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Ya I could see Wortley car-free between Elmwood and Askin, at least to start. Use Ridout or Wharncliffe for through traffic.

---

For those coal rollers, ya those should be (or already is) illegal. Any cop that sees trucks with this stuff should pull them over and impound that vehicle permanently, along with a hefty fine and/or traffic violation.

Do you have a dash cam? If so I recommend getting one just to see the footage here. They're pretty cheap these days and you can even get ones that do front and rear recording with just one camera (wiring one for the back can be a pain).
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Old Posted Nov 7, 2024, 5:52 PM
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https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/pedestrian-hurt-south-london-crash

"Pedestrian suffers life-threatening injuries in south London crash: Police"
Nov. 6, Commissonmers and Wharncliffe

"...a man suffered life-threatening injuries in the crash, which took place on Tuesday evening at about 6:45 p.m."

No changes or review of the intersection as a result of a critically hurt Londoner.

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Old Posted Dec 23, 2024, 2:03 PM
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/lo...-killed-getting-off-school-bus-1.7415940

"Longwoods Road residents call for changes after 7-year-old killed getting off school bus"

Notice the neutral language avoiding directly blaming the driver.

No automatic review or change to the crash site as a result of a manslaughtered child. No mention of an automatic lifetime driving ban for the driver.


Our ill-planned cultural obsession with private-car ownership creates externalities in the form of pollution, traffic, noise...

... and typically a dead child every year or so. Then everyone will continue on acting like this is just a normal thing that happens to normal children of normal families here in London, Ontario.

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Old Posted Dec 23, 2024, 11:02 PM
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I would say there is no mention of an automatic lifetime ban because there is still a legal process to go through.

Also, for those curious, the deceased child was a family member of former City councillor Roger Caranci. Nephew I think.
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Old Posted Dec 23, 2024, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintentario View Post
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/lo...-killed-getting-off-school-bus-1.7415940

"Longwoods Road residents call for changes after 7-year-old killed getting off school bus"

Notice the neutral language avoiding directly blaming the driver.

No automatic review or change to the crash site as a result of a manslaughtered child. No mention of an automatic lifetime driving ban for the driver.

Our ill-planned cultural obsession with private-car ownership creates externalities in the form of pollution, traffic, noise...

... and typically a dead child every year or so. Then everyone will continue on acting like this is just a normal thing that happens to normal children of normal families here in London, Ontario.

~~~~~~
To the best of my understanding, the police are still investigating the incident. Charges may still be pending, and often in very serious incidents such as this charges may not be laid for a while until the investigation is concluded and conclusions drawn. If the article were to assess blame to the driver at this point, and it turns out the driver is not found to be at fault in the future, that's called libel. That's why the article is neutral, not some pro-automobile bias/conspiracy by the newspaper.

Until those conclusions are drawn by the police as to why and how the incident occurred, there is nothing to act on in terms of making physical alterations/improvements to the roadway.

Automatic lifetime driving ban? The driver hasn't even been charged with anything (yet). Burn the witch?

No one will ever view this as a normal thing.

manslaughtered child? Show a little reverence for this tragedy instead of making it your hyperbolic soap box.
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