Cemeteries

[rousseau]

I love cemeteries. They are a catalogue of local history, and the older ones are often peaceful and beautiful. I took a first date to a cemetery once.

I inadvertenly stumbled on a Jewish cemetery in Hamilton across from a big shopping mall today in Google Maps that I didn't know about, and felt inspired to start this thread. Jews weren't allowed to live in the Westdale section of Hamilton until the 1960s, and their cemeteries were certainly not allowed within city limits. The top two are now in Hamilton due to city growth/annexation, and the bottom two are in rural parts of Halton Region next door.


Ohev Zedeck Jewish Cemetery


https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.21453.../data=!3m1!1e3


Anshe Sholom Cemetery


https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.21261.../data=!3m1!1e3


Beth Jacob and Grand Order of Israel Cemetery


https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.29345.../data=!3m1!1e3


Adas Israel Cemetery


https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.30823.../data=!3m1!1e3

[Architype]

I think cemeteries are a thing of the past in urban areas, we can no longer afford the land they require, so most of us will be stowed in small niches in walls, or in urns somewhere. But since they have existed in traditional form more or less up to the present day, they interesting places to visit, and tangible accounts or reminders of history. The most interesting thing for me is that I can find most of my late relatives' gravesites, documented with pictures and info on the internet now.

[casper]

There are some very old obscure cemeteries that date back to before our city exist. Those are interesting.

This on in Victoria is in the middle of the airport. Makes for an interesting place to park waiting for people to arrive at the airport.

https://goo.gl/maps/6Jyt5BqevaY93epo9

I don't know much about the family that owns it other than they homestead on the farm that was there before the airport was built.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Architype

I think cemeteries are a thing of the past in urban areas, we can no longer afford the land they require, so most of us will be stowed in small niches in walls, or in urns somewhere. But since they have existed in traditional form more or less up to the present day, they interesting places to visit, and tangible accounts or reminders of history. The most interesting thing for me is that I can find most of my late relatives' gravesites, documented with pictures and info on the internet now.

Jewish and Muslim religious rules mandate traditional cemetery burial; both religions prohibit things like cremation. They also prohibit embalming and dressing up the body (bodies are wrapped in thin undyed sheets), mandate wood only coffins, and require that burial proceed ASAP (typically, the body is interred within 48 hours of death) - a practical necessity due to the prohibition of embalming.

For these reasons, Jews and Muslims will always require cemeteries. Within a few decades Muslims will probably be 10%-15% of the population in our major cities. Cemeteries aren't disappearing.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Jewish and Muslim religious rules mandate traditional cemetery burial; both religions prohibit things like cremation. They also prohibit embalming and dressing up the body (bodies are wrapped in thin undyed sheets), mandate wood only coffins, and require that burial proceed ASAP (typically, the body is interred within 48 hours of death) - a practical necessity due to the prohibition of embalming.

For these reasons, Jews and Muslims will always require cemeteries. Within a few decades Muslims will probably be 10%-15% of the population in our major cities. Cemeteries aren't disappearing.

Huh, I did not know that. That could be a point of contention down the road if the Muslim population continues to grow, as it undoubtedly will.

There are a couple of old Jewish cemeteries in Toronto. I wonder why Hamilton was so dead set against them in the 19th century? Seems like a rather unique instance of antisemitic prejudice in Canada (fits in with my estimation of Hamilton as the most American-seeming city in Canada).

[casper]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Huh, I did not know that. That could be a point of contention down the road if the Muslim population continues to grow, as it undoubtedly will.

There are a couple of old Jewish cemeteries in Toronto. I wonder why Hamilton was so dead set against them in the 19th century? Seems like a rather unique instance of antisemitic prejudice in Canada (fits in with my estimation of Hamilton as the most American-seeming city in Canada).

Not knowing anything about this in my area I looked it up.

The Jewish cemetery in Victoria dates back to 1860 and is the oldest non-indigenous cemetery still in use. Interesting story.
https://jewishcemeteryofvictoriabc.ca/

On the west coast it is not uncommon for the Chinese and Japanise of that time to have been in separate cemeteries.

[wg_flamip]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Huh, I did not know that. That could be a point of contention down the road if the Muslim population continues to grow, as it undoubtedly will.

The demand created by the growing Muslim community is being offset by growth in other groups that traditionally practise cremation (e.g., Hindus, Sikhs, etc.) and by rapidly changing preferences among the Christian and non-religious populations.

Several municipalities in the GTA have designated specific ash-scattering locations in response to skyrocketing demand from the Hindu and Sikh communities, as outlined in this 2021 article from the Star. From the article:

The demand for locations to host ash-scattering ceremonies is growing along with the rise in the number of cremations conducted in Canada — and not just among Sikhs and Hindus, for whom scattering the ashes on flowing water is a sacred ritual.

In 2000, less than half of all deaths in Canada were followed by cremation: 47 per cent, according to the Cremation Association of North America. In 2020, that figure stood at 73 per cent. It is projected to rise to 77 per cent by 2025.

[SignalHillHiker]

I've done my share of strolling through cemeteries

I like checking out the old tombstones, and the differences between eras and faiths. For example, in the Roman Catholic cemeteries here, a lot of the older plots have towering tombstones with Celtic crosses and the like, and most have multiple family members buried in the plot. The more modern tombstones are often, well, tacky, with elaborate harps, guitars, beloved pets, maps of the island, even the deceased's face. Some have cute or funny inscriptions. I love seeing ones that show our history played out in a single family - i.e. saw one today that listed a teacher born in Ireland, his son who died fighting with the Royal Air Force, and another relative who served in the Canadian Armed Forces.

In the Protestant cemeteries, the tombstones tend to have different crosses and, WAY more often than the Catholic ones, kind of coffin-shaped concrete tombs above ground. In addition to the Anglican and (now) United ones, the Protestants also have "General Protestant" cemeteries, which aren't specific to one denomination, and this is where all the "Others" traditionally ended up. You can find tombstones from the early 1900s without a single word in English on them - Mandarin, Arabic, etc. There are graves for young women with Catholic names, which I assume were childbirth deaths out of wedlock? And, again, the past - lots of big names. Huge merchant tombs, big family plots for former Prime Ministers of the Dominion of Newfoundland, etc.

[Loco101]

I find in interesting how different municipalities handle cemeteries. In Timmins all of ours are public and operated and maintained by our city. Our largest originally had a large Catholic operated section as most people here have always been Catholic but the Roman Catholic Diocese transferred it to the city in the 1960s.

Are there any cities/towns where all of the cemeteries are privately owned and operated?

[casper]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I find in interesting how different municipalities handle cemeteries. In Timmins all of ours are public and operated and maintained by our city. Our largest originally had a large Catholic operated section as most people here have always been Catholic but the Roman Catholic Diocese transferred it to the city in the 1960s.

Are there any cities/towns where all of the cemeteries are privately owned and operated?

Had to make arrangements for some relatives in Vancouver several years ago.

The city owns a cemetery. It was generally full. They did have a number spots that opened up due to changes in roads and some people who purchased plots for loved ones that they did not use.

The choice was between private operators. Most are owned by the same US company.

We ended up buying space in a Mausoleum at the Ocean View Cemetery. That is what happens when land is expensive. You have five story buildings and then five or six levels on each floor.

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...+view+mosoleum

I assume these types of structures are common in other parts of the country.

I included a link to a video some random person did. There are a number done my sales agents that are tacky.

Likely the same in other parts of the country. When you buy a plot you are paying into a trust fund registered with the province that looks after the plot for every. It makes this very expensive.

[kool maudit]

Where the dead sleep above the living.

[harls]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Where the dead sleep above the living

Now you've gone and made it all spooky, kool. I can't visit downtown Montreal anymore knowing the dead are above me.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Where the dead sleep above the living.

Notre Dame des Neiges cemetery is one of the best in North America, and I think, the very best in Canada. The architecture, the setting, the foliage, the sheer size (more than 2 million souls interred), and most of all, the insane number of famous and infamous people buried there. The tombs for the mafia dons, for example. A Who's Who of Canadian and Quebec politics and popular culture. I have lots of relatives buried there.

Mafia don


Another Mafia don


For 5 years I lived near the Oratory St. Joseph, and I would walk the NDdN cemetery at least once a month, deliberately getting lost. It was a magical experience, especially in the fall, and during a blizzard, or at twilight.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Where the dead sleep above the living.

A scathing indictment of building height limits in Montreal.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Where the dead sleep above the living.

Got lost in there on Halloween 6 years ago. Was kinda eerie with all the people in costumes wandering about.

[O-tacular]

I'll be visiting this cemetery next week, unfortunately, to inter the ashes of my grand-maman. She'll be reuinited with my grand-papa who was never alive in my lifetime but whose grave I would visit every summer trip to Boucherville. I always found it a peaceful place.

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6144...7i16384!8i8192

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

I'll be visiting this cemetery next week, unfortunately, to inter the ashes of my grand-maman. She'll be reuinited with my grand-papa who was never alive in my lifetime but whose grave I would visit every summer trip to Boucherville. I always found it a peaceful place.

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6144...7i16384!8i8192

sorry to hear about the loss of your grand-manan.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

sorry to hear about the loss of your grand-manan.

Thanks. She was my last and favourite grandparent and was scheduled to fly to Calgary in March 2020 but that never happened (pandemic). Wanted so badly for her to meet my kids.

[lio45]

^ Urban cemeteries are (to me at least) a more justifiable use of scarce land when they're kinda part of a park.

Imagine a large surface cemetery somewhere in lower/mid Manhattan. (Not sure if there are actually some.) Now imagine the same thing, but as a chunk of present-day Central Park.

[lio45]

Thanks for that post. It's exactly what I meant.