Winnipeg - Conservative (Right) or Progressive (Left)?

[LilZebra]

• Video Link

Alex Jones of Infowars.com just flew (or drove) to leftist city Seattle, Washington.

A young adult spilled what Alex allegedly says was HOT COFFEE on him. Another young adult male called Alex a 'racist'.

Wondering, if AJ were to visit our fair city, how would we treat him?

Is metro Winnipeg as a whole more Left-leaning or is it more Right-leaning?

My guesstimate is that we are a Left-leaning racist city and someone would do the same to AJ as was done in Seattle, Washington.

[bomberjet]

I don't give a crap what your political views are. Regardless of your opinion on Winnipeg being a racist city. If you come here specifically to spout racist garbage, you're going to have a hard time.

Who was that other guy that was supposed to come here maybe last year and the Mayor told him just don't come. I could see that happening again to that guy.

[esquire]

Guys like Alex Jones and that d-bag bomberjet was talking about need to have some kind of foil to play off of to whip up their supporters. Let's face it, they do what they have to do to provoke a response... there isn't as much money in calm discussion as there is in emotional hysterics.

[Wolf13]

We're definitely left of centre.

I'm right wing, but no fan of the provocateurs that are parading around these days. For me it's more fiscal. However, I find it completely hypocritical that leftists and antifa can run around and actually commit harm to people with minimal backlash because "racism". I'm sure some of these people are racist, and in Charlottesville hell yes they were, but often the right is generalized in the Trump era as racist which is nonsense. Sure enough, the quicker you throw a term around, the quicker you can feel entitled to punch someone you disagree with.

I don't care what reasons you give, if you're a moron who tries to attach a label to anyone just so you can start a fight, then I have no respect.

We all know that if a white right wing capitalist punched someone for differing political opinions it doesn't matter if his wife could be black, he's probably Hitler and thereafter face down in a ditch.

[Jets4Life]

• Video Link

Found this on YouTube a couple of months ago. Not sure what is going on, but it's obvious it's taking place in front of Winnipeg City Hall.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

We're definitely left of centre.

I'm right wing, but no fan of the provocateurs that are parading around these days. For me it's more fiscal. However, I find it completely hypocritical that leftists and antifa can run around and actually commit harm to people with minimal backlash because "racism". I'm sure some of these people are racist, and in Charlottesville hell yes they were, but often the right is generalized in the Trump era as racist which is nonsense. Sure enough, the quicker you throw a term around, the quicker you can feel entitled to punch someone you disagree with.

I don't care what reasons you give, if you're a moron who tries to attach a label to anyone just so you can start a fight, then I have no respect.

We all know that if a white right wing capitalist punched someone for differing political opinions it doesn't matter if his wife could be black, he's probably Hitler and thereafter face down in a ditch.

In a way, you can characterize the right as motivated by winning, which over the last few decades has inclined them towards unifying. Uniting the right has been politically effective in Canada, so far. The white nationalist rally in Charlottesville was even branded as a unite the right rally. It would seem that the right can only unite so far. It's unfortunate for voters that the division came so far to the right (I can get down with the thoughtful, centre-right pollitics of a man like Joe Clark, or the fundamentally kind conservatism of Angela Merkel, but the likes of Brian Pallister and Andrew Scheer will never gain my vote). But it's good that right wing politicians in North America are finally drawing a line on who they're willing to associate with in order to hold power.

Conversely, the left seems compelled to sort itself into ever smaller factions. Regressive leftist ideals die hard. Identity pollitics have taken the bleeding edge of needlessly illiberal progressive pollitics. The Black block is all fun and games when they're punching Nazis, but they aren't heroes, and they probably hate you too, if you dare to see the good in capitalism because it keeps food on our tables, or understand what the word 'inherently' means and therefore know that capitalism is not inherently racist.

Unfortunately, extremism begets extremism. Those of us who aren't extremists might disagree with each other, but we've brought about a wonderful system in which we can disagree constructively and cooperatively.


As for Alex Jones, I don't even think he's a real person. He's a blow hard who knows which side of his bread is buttered. The odd hot coffee to the face is a small price to pay for the oodles of money he makes off whipping up idiots. What he does is definitely not helpful, but we're in the midst of the process of collectively figuring that out.

[WolselyMan]

Winnipeg decisively sways towards leftist Ideology. This is probably an echo of it once having one of the largest marxist movements in Canada. It's actually fairly understandable how the social environment of the city in it's adolescent days might not have given a lot of people the best picture of capitalism. Winnipeg was basically founded by a Fur Company, so right from the very start Businessmen had humongous influence over the city's governance. This meant lots of abuses of power could be implemented by powerful tycoons, many of whom built some of the oldest riverfront mansions that remain on wellington crescent today. The city just simply sprung out of nowhere so mind-mindbogglingly fast that you are bound to run into a ton of growing pains such as an unhealthy amount of corporatism that comes from mixing government with business so tightly.

[Tony]

That's enough children.

[Spocket]

Well, given that I myself am somewhere in the middle and consider myself a classical liberal (the kind that actually believes in the principles of liberalism) I think Alex Jones is both a nutcase and not particularly representative of conservatism anywhere.

My entire life I have been witness to the left go from being actually progressive to definitely regressive. The people on university and college campuses shouting in the name of left-wing politics are anything but liberal. They shout down anybody who disagrees with them, try to censor their speech and muzzle all who dissent. I absolutely do not like them and refuse to identify with them. I want them as far as away as possible due partially to their radical views and partially thanks to those radical views being so detrimental to a functioning society. Have we not seen the recent surge of people who actually think that communism is a great idea? Of course they're young and, well, stupid but they must have got their glowing view of it from somebody who really should know better. These guys are morons and they're also rather belligerent. On the other hand, we just saw what may well be the last gasp of the racist right in Charlottesville. I say last gasp but perhaps that's rather premature. It's not premature because those idiots won't do something again. No, rather I think it's premature because the radical left is giving those kinds of people every reason in the world to view the radical right with favor. Alex Jones and his ilk are exactly the kind of idiots they need because he has a platform from which to point down to the radical left and say "See!? I told you so!"

So I certainly wouldn't welcome Alex Jones or anybody who thinks he actually has anything worthwhile to say, I do believe that he has every right to say it. As such, no, I would do absolutely nothing to stop him and I would oppose anybody who tried to stop him.

Incidentally, Winnipeg is a racist city? Fuck off. Yeah, not particularly thought-provoking but I experienced far more racism in the ostensibly "progressive" cities of the east than I ever did in Winnipeg.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Well, given that I myself am somewhere in the middle and consider myself a classical liberal (the kind that actually believes in the principles of liberalism) I think Alex Jones is both a nutcase and not particularly representative of conservatism anywhere.

My entire life I have been witness to the left go from being actually progressive to definitely regressive. The people on university and college campuses shouting in the name of left-wing politics are anything but liberal. They shout down anybody who disagrees with them, try to censor their speech and muzzle all who dissent. I absolutely do not like them and refuse to identify with them. I want them as far as away as possible due partially to their radical views and partially thanks to those radical views being so detrimental to a functioning society. Have we not seen the recent surge of people who actually think that communism is a great idea? Of course they're young and, well, stupid but they must have got their glowing view of it from somebody who really should know better. These guys are morons and they're also rather belligerent. On the other hand, we just saw what may well be the last gasp of the racist right in Charlottesville. I say last gasp but perhaps that's rather premature. It's not premature because those idiots won't do something again. No, rather I think it's premature because the radical left is giving those kinds of people every reason in the world to view the radical right with favor. Alex Jones and his ilk are exactly the kind of idiots they need because he has a platform from which to point down to the radical left and say "See!? I told you so!"

So I certainly wouldn't welcome Alex Jones or anybody who thinks he actually has anything worthwhile to say, I do believe that he has every right to say it. As such, no, I would do absolutely nothing to stop him and I would oppose anybody who tried to stop him.

Incidentally, Winnipeg is a racist city? Fuck off. Yeah, not particularly thought-provoking but I experienced far more racism in the ostensibly "progressive" cities of the east than I ever did in Winnipeg.

I think that these people are useful, and that violence has to be curtailed.

For whatever reason, a lot of people think that they must pay, or must learn, or must be stopped... they already have their army of morons and aggressive opposition fuels them.

Let Alex or Milo have their speeches, hear what they say, and BAM! That crowd, all those morons? Now you atleast know where people stand, and who you have to watch out for. And because non-violence is normal, some people might actually have dialogue.

Because although A LOT (and this goes unmentioned) of people had many reasonable reasons to vote Trump (or not Hillary), many crazy people shocked the world on election day. They came out of hiding. And this is why the alt-right gained traction... before it became clear how crazy they were, a lot of reasonable conservatives also were in hiding. Little about the Obama Administration inspired people with something to lose professionally/politically to be openly conservative (Texas doesn't count).

If we're not violent, then atleast they're not in hiding and nobody is surprised on election day. Then the world can pursue a reasonable dialogue based on actual circumstances.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

I think that these people are useful, and that violence has to be curtailed.

For whatever reason, a lot of people think that they must pay, or must learn, or must be stopped... they already have their army of morons and aggressive opposition fuels them.

Let Alex or Milo have their speeches, hear what they say, and BAM! That crowd, all those morons? Now you atleast know where people stand, and who you have to watch out for. And because non-violence is normal, some people might actually have dialogue.

Because although A LOT (and this goes unmentioned) of people had many reasonable reasons to vote Trump (or not Hillary), many crazy people shocked the world on election day. They came out of hiding. And this is why the alt-right gained traction... before it became clear how crazy they were, a lot of reasonable conservatives also were in hiding. Little about the Obama Administration inspired people with something to lose professionally/politically to be openly conservative (Texas doesn't count).

If we're not violent, then atleast they're not in hiding and nobody is surprised on election day. Then the world can pursue a reasonable dialogue based on actual circumstances.

See, and this is exactly where I part ways with the Left. I happen to completely agree with virtually everything Milo says. Mostly because he's saying what I've known for years. It's not a matter of opinion really, it's just uncomfortable facts for people who feel they must ideologically oppose them. He's no worse in his delivery of the truth than anybody else I can name and he's a whole lot more reasonable than a lot.

To be honest, when people cite Milo Yiannopoulis as a source of hate speech and violent rhetoric, I can definitely say that they've never actually listened to what he has to say. Mind you, I shouldn't say that I agree with everything he says because he has, oddly enough, a rather perverse view of homosexuals which I don't agree with at all.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by Spocket

See, and this is exactly where I part ways with the Left. I happen to completely agree with virtually everything Milo says. Mostly because he's saying what I've known for years. It's not a matter of opinion really, it's just uncomfortable facts for people who feel they must ideologically oppose them. He's no worse in his delivery of the truth than anybody else I can name and he's a whole lot more reasonable than a lot.

To be honest, when people cite Milo Yiannopoulis as a source of hate speech and violent rhetoric, I can definitely say that they've never actually listened to what he has to say. Mind you, I shouldn't say that I agree with everything he says because he has, oddly enough, a rather perverse view of homosexuals which I don't agree with at all.

Well, I definitely support his right to say things, and don't disagree with a lot of it (but definitely disagree with some strongly) but rather how he says it, and why, which is just as much to start a fight as it is to make money or spread the message. Maybe I'm getting soft.

I have no idea about his perverse views of gay people, but isn't he gay?

It does turn out that a larger than expected number of conservative "personalities", whether merely outside the mainstream down to shit-disturbers, are actually gay.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Well, I definitely support his right to say things, and don't disagree with a lot of it (but definitely disagree with some strongly) but rather how he says it, and why, which is just as much to start a fight as it is to make money or spread the message. Maybe I'm getting soft.

I have no idea about his perverse views of gay people, but isn't he gay?

It does turn out that a larger than expected number of conservative "personalities", whether merely outside the mainstream down to shit-disturbers, are actually gay.

But that's the problem with today's left: I can name plenty of people on the left who say a lot worse and do it in a far worse manner but they get a pass for some reason. Hell, I can walk into any university and learn all about how I have to die because I'm white or male or heterosexual but the moment somebody says "Hey...you know, I don't think your statistics are true and frankly, I think you make them up so as to get more attention. You're an asshole." then that's the demon.

As to Milo's stance on homosexuality, well, for one thing, he thinks it's a choice that people engage in just to piss off their parents and to get a thrill. Utter nonsense. And yes, he is homosexual, which is why I find his position on the matter puzzling.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Incidentally, Winnipeg is a racist city? Fuck off. Yeah, not particularly thought-provoking but I experienced far more racism in the ostensibly "progressive" cities of the east than I ever did in Winnipeg.

I've lived in several Canadian cities, and Winnipeg is not the most racist city in Canada. It's a shame Macleans had to stoop so low, without any factual evidence. If anyone does have the impression that Winnipeg is racist, it could stem from the fact that Canada does have a problem with our First Nations people, due to how we treated them in the past, but the only reason it is more pronounced here, is that Winnipeg has, by far, the highest concentration of Native people in a big city, and it is not even close.

I hope some day that things will drastically improve. My suggestion was to build more community centres, recreational facilities, and give the youth of the impoverished areas where there are high concentrations of Native people more extracurricular activities to engage in. This can curtail youth from joining gangs, and substance abuse. Winnipeg has a lot of potential for positive change, with the rapid growth of the city in the last decade.

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

I've lived in several Canadian cities, and Winnipeg is not the most racist city in Canada. It's a shame Macleans had to stoop so low, without any factual evidence. If anyone does have the impression that Winnipeg is racist, it could stem from the fact that Canada does have a problem with our First Nations people, due to how we treated them in the past, but the only reason it is more pronounced here, is that Winnipeg has, by far, the highest concentration of Native people in a big city, and it is not even close.

I hope some day that things will drastically improve. My suggestion was to build more community centres, recreational facilities, and give the youth of the impoverished areas where there are high concentrations of Native people more extracurricular activities to engage in. This can curtail youth from joining gangs, and substance abuse. Winnipeg has a lot of potential for positive change, with the rapid growth of the city in the last decade.

Maclean's is a rag. They do this with every cover story - the author writes a decent, balanced article, then the editors get their hands on it and slap some outrageous headline that isn't even really related to the article just to sell some magazines. If you read that article without seeing the headline you never would have gotten the impression that the author was arguing Winnipeg is more racist than other places. The article was really about how Winnipeg is the epicentre of a national first nations crisis. I mean, it didnt even discuss other races. How can you definitively declare which city is the most racist if you haven't looked into racism toward black people, muslims, or any group other than indigenous people? Unfortunately it's the catchy headline that sticks. Kind of like how people nationwide still consider us the "murder capital" even when we don't make the top 3 anymore.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

• Video Link

Alex Jones of Infowars.com just flew (or drove) to leftist city Seattle, Washington.

A young adult spilled what Alex allegedly says was HOT COFFEE on him. Another young adult male called Alex a 'racist'.

Wondering, if AJ were to visit our fair city, how would we treat him?

Is metro Winnipeg as a whole more Left-leaning or is it more Right-leaning?

My guesstimate is that we are a Left-leaning racist city and someone would do the same to AJ as was done in Seattle, Washington.

Alex Jones does not represent most Canadian Conservatives. To paint mainstream Conservatives in the Alex Jones brush is ridiculous, insulting and misinformed.

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Alex Jones does not represent most Canadian Conservatives.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by thurmas

To paint mainstream Conservatives in the Alex Jones brush is ridiculous, insulting and misinformed.

In the US it's a different matter. Right now Trump - including his "Alex Jones and Breitbart are the real news" shtick - is by definition mainstream conservatism.

The Republican Party as a whole determined that he best represented them and the country. It wasn't even close. Distant second place Ted Cruz was hardly better, and the others were mostly worse. The religious right supported Trump, and still do. Republicans in Congress make the occasional annoyed sounds, but still support him.

Nor can conservatives claim to have been misled. Absolutely nothing Trump has done since his nomination and election has been out of character with how he acted before.

[RLS_rls]

Winnipeg is fiercely centrist. Winnipegers are conservative people in that they are quite literally conservative with their language, behaviour, consumption etc. There is an aversion to being divisive here I think, and a strong desire for harmony and using (the lowest) common denominators to achieve that harmony. Instead of one group having lots and the other having little let's move things around a bit so everyone gets something they didn't want, that kind of thing. Where does dedication to mediocrity sit on the spectrum?

I don't think Winnipeg is the most racist city in the country. As someone else said that article was really in regards to Winnipeg's aboriginal population. That could have been said about any place in Western Canada because of demographics. Until the federal government changes the way it views and interacts with First Nations I am not sure how much more positive change can be eked out of the current arrangement. I have all sorts of things to say about this but I am too tired to put them in to words and also not that interested at the moment.

I think a lot of people are getting the alt-right all-wrong. Maybe I'm still associating alt-right with creeping 4chan back in the day, where I saw the earliest stages of what would soon become this weird, hideous movement. I'll try to put it in to words. I think it started out as a (mostly male, quite often white, likely middle class) bunch of arrogant, foul mouthed, ill-tempered, generally socially progressive but weak minded and impatient shitheads who mistook vulgar provocations as The Real Truth That Normies Couldn't See. The alt-right used to be a bunch of nerds who thought they knew how things worked and never doubted their superior intellect, as nerds are wont to. A lot of it started ironically I bet, and then turned in to sincerity as it is also wont to.

Today alt-right means something entirely different, but until fairly recently it more resembled (to me) that early stage than whatever the fuck it is now. I feel like there's a dirty secret that a lot of people aren't acknowledging about the alt-right but I'm not sure how to put it in words. To explain what I mean I will say that in the last half dozen years I can think of a handful of moments that, if I had made a different decision that was available to me at the time, I would be just like one of those tiki torch guys from Charlottesville. I believe there are people all over the spectrum who followed the same trajectory as me, and that despite their ideologies are all cut from the same cloth. I think a lot of people just reacted poorly to changes going on in the world and information that was around them and went down this alt-right path. Of course that only explains the origin...after a while it doesn't so much matter how you got there, just that you're doing the wrong thing. I am seeing protests and campaigns and the like from the far right (I say that with hesitation, nothing about this right comes across as conservative) that are so incredibly wicked and hateful, so insane and so incredibly stupid, it leaves me speechless. And I see awful things on the left (" ") as well, but of a different sort. Like everyone is just really stubborn and they've picked the spot on the spectrum where they're digging their heels in. More ego than ideology. I have all sorts of things to say about the other side as well, and tbh I feel more free to talk about it since Trump got in, but that's another post.

Anyway I'm conservative, a member of the CPC even. I did not vote for Scheer and I don't think much of him. I don't think much of conservative discourse in Canada, I am uninspired by it. I'm much more interested in imagining how conservatism might adapt to an entirely different future than our present instead of the usual "spending bad, tax bad, JT bad" approach. This whole Rebel nonsense is embarassing. Conservative views are underrepresented in the media but to give such a shitty, unprofessional network the benefit of the doubt? Yikes, I wrote them off the first time I heard of them.

Big shout out to Biguc and Unknown Poster for their :100 emoji: input, you two are nuanced and insightful and likely easier to understand than whatever I just wrote. Time for bed!

[jmt18325]

You're picking out a few relatively small groups and using that as some kind of indentifier for the left, when that just isn't the case. On the other hand, if you believe in the theory of systemic racism (I'm on the fence there), then yes, all white people are racist, even without knowing it or meaning to be.

[drew]

Can't we just have "news" instead of left versus right?

The FP obviously has some left leaning editorials, and the Sun has right leaning editorials and opinion pieces - but that isn't news - it's just someones interpretation of it. Most of us are smart enough to realize that. I love Neil MacDonald opinion pieces, but I know it's not news.

In terms of actual "news" if we are looking at say the Sun versus the FP - there really is no comparison. I get the news from the FP, or the CBC. The Sun is basically a collection of ideological opinion pieces, local sports articles and entertainment fluff.