Colliers/Golub Preconstruction Thread: Four New Towers in Downtown Phoenix!

renone · #1 Posted **Mar 29, 2012, 5:31 PM**

My company has now seen proposals from both gollub and colliers for the two new proposed buildings. The colliers building is definitely going to be built, they already have enough tenants to build. The gollub building is still trying to get the green light.

The colliers building is nothing special. The first eight floors will be above ground parking and the building will be one of two building built on that site. the buildings will be staggered like renaissance so they both have views to the south. The second building will be built when it is economically feasible. The first building will be 30 stories. They alluded to the fact that the second pad at the current colliers building will be developed into a hotel in the "near future". Completion date of the new tower is January of 2015.

The gollub building is much more interesting and has a nice crown, outdoor balconies, and a small park with grass on the eight floor over the above ground parking. Gollub says it will be a downtown "icon". I like the deisgn, but the location will be a tough sell (200 west monroe). Gollub says that location will get better and better, and they mentioned that there will be an upcoming announcement about Hotel Monroe that will really help that area of downtown. I hope they are right, Hotel Monroe is a great building that needs some serious TLC.

PHX31 · #2 Posted **Mar 29, 2012, 5:53 PM**

Well sh!t! Convince your company to go to the gollub building if the other colliers will 'definitely' get built anyway. That part of downtown is/will be awesome. Closer to hotel Monroe, civic space park, and of course the crescent ballroom, Seamus, ghost bar, z pizza, city hall, orpheum, etc.

Great news though. (although I'll believe it when I see it wrt colliers.)

How many stories was the Gollub building? I'm sure it will look better and it already sounds cool. You had me at crown. Also, the Gollub building is in a much higher visibility location. Hundreds of thousands of cars that head east on I-10 from the stack towards downtown (probably the best view of the city) will see the Gollub building up front and center. The CityScape towers are pretty much hidden in the middle of downtown.

Vicelord John · #3 Posted **Mar 29, 2012, 10:10 PM**

yeah, pipe dream (still.)

HX_Guy · #4 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 12:52 AM**

Yea if their focus is to office towers, I don't see the Target happening. If it was residential or hotel, then maybe.

gymratmanaz · #5 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 12:59 AM**

Exciting news! Can't wait to see renderings! ( been busy rehearsing with the Phoenix Symphony for Rogers & Hammerstain shows this weekend, so not much time for posting. Glad I took a little break. Great news!!!!!

HooverDam · #6 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 1:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by renone

The first eight floors will be above ground parking.

Well this is a worrisome sentence, but Im sure there will be ground floor retail. The Urban Code form has been adopted now and you can't just have the bottom of the building be a garage. The question is will it all be a giant lobby, or have actual retail?

HX_Guy · #7 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 2:12 AM**

I'm guessing something like 1CPE.

phxSUNSfan · #8 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 4:20 AM**

Interesting news...would be nice if they didn't value engineer these buildings to death as was the case with most of CityScape. More parking is stupid but in Phoenix there still isn't the density to do without in a new development.

The 101 building isn't very charming but it does a good job hiding the above ground parking over retail/lobby...I don't want to see cars parked 8 stories high like in 1CPE.

combusean · #9 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 7:44 PM**

I've been kind of playing with some numbers stemming from the Golub tower's parking, so renone, feel free to chime in about any other details of the tower you saw or might know such as floorplates and what not especially relative to the size of the lot.

If the parking garage takes up the whole lot, 6 floors of parking (on top of one floor of retail) is a gross 540,000 square feet. That's a LOT of parking ... could easily support a high-rise of well over a million square feet--something the size of Renaissance Square.

If we use 1.2 million gross square feet of office, that's 30 floors of office in a *very* large 200x200' floorplate. That would mean a 480' tower minus the crown--at a minimum 505' with the crown.

The height limit for the lot is 543'.

Of course, if the tower only takes half the lot, for instance, the project becomes fairly run of the mill--a 1CPE for all intents and purposes.

But the idea of a "downtown icon" is exciting to say the least and leads to many possibilities.

Vicelord John · #10 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 8:05 PM**

I feel as though we are counting our chickens before they hatch.

that said, I would hate to see another block with one building on it. As long as land prices are low and demand is low, we'll never see 4-5 buildings per block, which is what will really create denisity in a city.

PHX31 · #11 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 8:44 PM**

Land prices aren't really that low, compared to the low demand. It seems like there are still way too many speculators holding and artifically inflating the $ of empty lots in Phoenix.

I think there are other zoning rules which would prohibit multiple towers on one block (air rights or density rules or something (?)). I'm not completely in the know with zoning laws, but I don't think we'll ever see 4 new towers on one block downtown under current zoning.

combusean · #12 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 9:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31

Land prices aren't really that low, compared to the low demand. It seems like there are still way too many speculators holding and artifically inflating the $ of empty lots in Phoenix.

I think there are other zoning rules which would prohibit multiple towers on one block (air rights or density rules or something (?)). I'm not completely in the know with zoning laws, but I don't think we'll ever see 4 new towers on one block downtown under current zoning.

You are correct about land values--land in downtown Phoenix is quite expensive for what it is and about average compared to far more developed cities.

I don't think there is anything in the zoning that outright prevents 4 towers on one block, it's just that small (10000sqft floorplate) office towers don't get built anymore.

Vicelord John · #13 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 9:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31

Land prices aren't really that low, compared to the low demand. It seems like there are still way too many speculators holding and artifically inflating the $ of empty lots in Phoenix.

I think there are other zoning rules which would prohibit multiple towers on one block (air rights or density rules or something (?)). I'm not completely in the know with zoning laws, but I don't think we'll ever see 4 new towers on one block downtown under current zoning.

I meant low compared to the cities I was thnking of as big cities. Compared to Chicago, New York, San Francisco, etc. Phoenix has low enough cost and demand to dictate suburban buildings downtown.

combusean · #14 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 8:45 PM**

^ Probably, but 1) it's fun to think about and 2) it's a preconstruction thread for a reason. It keeps all the wild speculation from the "real" news threads.

I can't even remember the last tower that has even made as much remote progress as these have had besides the unsubstantiated previous blurb about one or two Colliers hotel towers. Other than that, there has been so few developments regarding new high-rises over the last 4 years...

As for another block with one building on it--if my guesses are accurate, Golub would be the biggest building by far in Phoenix. Twice as wide as 1CPE (which is already pretty wide) and 150' taller? We don't have anything remotely as big as that in Phoenix.

4 - 5 towers a block means a mishmash of skinny junk with obstructed views that wouldn't even get built anyways--floorplates need to be much larger for new office towers these days than they have in the past.

Vicelord John · #15 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 8:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by combusean

4 - 5 towers a block means a mishmash of skinny junk with obstructed views that wouldn't even get built anyways--floorplates need to be much larger for new office towers these days than they have in the past.

When I go to big cities, that's how everything is. Most blocks in Chicago in the loop have 4-5-6 buildings on them.

combusean · #16 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 9:15 PM**

Well, yeah, you might see 4 or 5 buildings but at most 2 or 3 towers.

But I agree, anyways--the block that 44 Monroe is on is the best downtown. I wish there were more like that, but Phoenix has an obvious dearth of vintage low/midrises like the San Carlos that make that template realistic.

Vicelord John · #17 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 9:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by combusean

Well, yeah, you might see 4 or 5 buildings but at most 2 or 3 towers.

But I agree, anyways--the block that 44 Monroe is on is the best downtown. I wish there were more like that, but Phoenix has an obvious dearth of vintage low/midrises like the San Carlos that make that template realistic.

Maybe because I live in Phoenix, I consider anything over about 5 stories a tower. LOL.

Quit trying to get into semantic arguments with me, Sean, it's annoying. You're like the little kid that follows people around correcting them when they're wrong. Nobody likes to hear it.

combusean · #18 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 9:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

Maybe because I live in Phoenix, I consider anything over about 5 stories a tower. LOL.

Quit trying to get into semantic arguments with me, Sean, it's annoying. You're like the little kid that follows people around correcting them when they're wrong. Nobody likes to hear it.

Bipolar much? You laugh at yourself than yell at me. Use the right words for the discussion. We were talking about towers.

Vicelord John · #19 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 9:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by combusean

Bipolar much? You laugh at yourself than yell at me. Use the right words for the discussion. We were talking about towers.

again semantics, you knew what I meant. Slow your roll.

plinko · #20 Posted **Mar 30, 2012, 10:10 PM**

So we have a whole thread on what amounts to a real estate presentation to a potential tenant?

I have no doubt that both Collier and Golub are working on tower designs for their plots, but the notion that either are imminent due to the fact that they are shopping for tenants is way jumping the gun.

I hope I'm wrong about that. I hope Collier really has enough tenants currently to begin construction on Two Collier Center or that Golub is far along in the process. But neither has filed even a planning application with the City (HX would have let us know I'm sure) so both of these supposed projects would seem to be pretty far out in terms of delivery date.

And the Collier Hotel stump? I guarantee they are looking for a city handout. Hard to get in the current market.

Like I said, I hope I'm totally wrong about this. But four new towers? I'd be shocked if even two of them are built.