[Halifax] St. Patrick's Alexandra | ? m | ? fl | Proposed

[Good Baklava]

This looks to be in the consulation phase, but JONO developments is proposing a fairly large development for the St. Patrick's Alexandra Site in partnership with the "One North End" community group.

Complete renderings can be found at the end of this presentation.



(Source: ONE NORTH END)



(Source: ONE NORTH END)

[someone123]

Nice find. This is much more ambitious than what I expected for the site.

An interesting aspect of the document is how they talk about offering space for ANS businesses, etc. In the past in Halifax there's sometimes been a tendency for NIMBY groups to argue that developers and density are at odds with local community interests. But a bigger and denser development can allow for more benefits for the community. I doubt many people are getting good value out of the current semi-abandoned site.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by someone123

Nice find. This is much more ambitious than what I expected for the site.

An interesting aspect of the document is how they talk about offering space for ANS businesses, etc. In the past in Halifax there's sometimes been a tendency for NIMBY groups to argue that developers and density are at odds with local community interests. But a bigger and denser development can allow for more benefits for the community. I doubt many people are getting good value out of the current semi-abandoned site.

I think JONO included the community group to mitigate the NIMBY backlash, and it demonstrates the developer exercised due diligence in regards to community impact. I was browsing through social media and the neighbours are not happy. I understand that as the north end becomes wealthier, it’s only fair that current residents get a piece of the action. So it’s hard for me to understand why they don’t ask for ”More spaces for local businesses, more community space, more housing options.”. Instead of downright opposing, why not band together and negotiate for something that benefits both parties?

I admit I’m being overly ideal, but I suspect the problem stems from a lack of trust over past failures.

[The Crow Whisperer]

Jono is being shaken down and extorted by poverty pimps in what amounts to another tax on developers.

Jono's "community partner" ONE NOTH END is resorting to literally handing out 100 dollar cash donations to random "marginalized community members," that's how desperate Jono is to get this deal done.

"The neighbors are unhappy" The wonderful neighbors won't accept anything being built in "their community" that isn't a soup kitchen or a community garden and consider condos to be literally genocide.

Imagine being Jono, taking all the financial risk, having "the community" taking shots at you and grandstanding against you, having every poverty pimp putting their hands into your pockets. Halifax has been dicking Jono around for years, wasting his time and money. Socialist welfare state machine politics at it's finest. What a quagmire.

[TheNovaScotian]

Originally Posted by The Crow Whisperer

Jono is being shaken down and extorted by poverty pimps in what amounts to another tax on developers.

Jono's "community partner" ONE NOTH END is resorting to literally handing out 100 dollar cash donations to random "marginalized community members," that's how desperate Jono is to get this deal done.

"The neighbors are unhappy" The wonderful neighbors won't accept anything being built in "their community" that isn't a soup kitchen or a community garden and consider condos to be literally genocide.

Imagine being Jono, taking all the financial risk, having "the community" taking shots at you and grandstanding against you, having every poverty pimp putting their hands into your pockets. Halifax has been dicking Jono around for years, wasting his time and money. Socialist welfare state machine politics at it's finest. What a quagmire.

Lol I remember when I started Econ 101 making grand generalizations and disparaged people who were struggling because we gave corporations to much power in deciding what type of world we live in.
Wow, I feel so terrible for him and the multiple millions of dollars he'll make from this whole debacle. If only those poverty pimps found a way to have a rich father to set up a development company for them to run....

How dare we place any expectations on these heros among men?
We should be planning parades in his honour, to praise our corporate overlords who've helped so many during this global pandemic.

I'm sure when he's thoroughly been shaken down by the "poverty pimps" he can get in line for a government hand out from the socialist welfare state too. Smh....

[someone123]

Originally Posted by TheNovaScotian

Lol I remember when I started Econ 101 making grand generalizations and disparaged people who were struggling because we gave corporations to much power in deciding what type of world we live in.

I just wish people would understand Econ 101 and realize that real estate developers are not cartoon villains who are able to arbitrarily price units however they feel like ("I demand.. one MEEEELLION dollars!"). They do not set the market price. HRM has more control over the market price than the mom and pop scale builders do, because urban planning controls can constrain the supply of new housing.

I wonder if covid will help with the mindless anti-business attitudes. Or will we continue to have people ranting about corporations and Big Pharma without any nuance while they're also screaming at anti-vaxxers for not going and getting their $20 shot from Pfizer, that shot from evil big business being the only thing that could plausibly bring this to an end right now?

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by The Crow Whisperer

Jono is being shaken down and extorted by poverty pimps in what amounts to another tax on developers.

Jono's "community partner" ONE NOTH END is resorting to literally handing out 100 dollar cash donations to random "marginalized community members," that's how desperate Jono is to get this deal done.

"The neighbors are unhappy" The wonderful neighbors won't accept anything being built in "their community" that isn't a soup kitchen or a community garden and consider condos to be literally genocide.

Imagine being Jono, taking all the financial risk, having "the community" taking shots at you and grandstanding against you, having every poverty pimp putting their hands into your pockets. Halifax has been dicking Jono around for years, wasting his time and money. Socialist welfare state machine politics at it's finest. What a quagmire.

Interesting insights from Ebenezer Scrooge...

Looks like someone hasn’t seen/read A Christmas Carol in a while.

Not saying this site will be smooth sailing, but c’mon man.

[planarchy]

Originally Posted by The Crow Whisperer

Jono is being shaken down and extorted by poverty pimps in what amounts to another tax on developers.

Jono's "community partner" ONE NOTH END is resorting to literally handing out 100 dollar cash donations to random "marginalized community members," that's how desperate Jono is to get this deal done.

"The neighbors are unhappy" The wonderful neighbors won't accept anything being built in "their community" that isn't a soup kitchen or a community garden and consider condos to be literally genocide.

Imagine being Jono, taking all the financial risk, having "the community" taking shots at you and grandstanding against you, having every poverty pimp putting their hands into your pockets. Halifax has been dicking Jono around for years, wasting his time and money. Socialist welfare state machine politics at it's finest. What a quagmire.

You’re delusional. Shaken down?? JONO paid less than market value for the site. He paid less than 1 mil per acre while BANC paid 11 mil per acre for st pats on quinpool. The site is profitable as is with its 4 storey height limit. JONO wants 30 storeys that would effectively give JONO an additional $25 mil or more value. If he wants a huge lift on the land you think it should be given to him for free? Come on. That’s just stupid.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by planarchy

You’re delusional. Shaken down?? JONO paid less than market value for the site. He paid less than 1 mil per acre while BANC paid 11 mil per acre for st pats on quinpool. The site is profitable as is with its 4 storey height limit. JONO wants 30 storeys that would effectively give JONO an additional $25 mil or more value. If he wants a huge lift on the land you think it should be given to him for free? Come on. That’s just stupid.

It's too bad they didn't just auction off this site, no strings attached, then leave it to the developer to build whatever the city approves and the market bears. It's not clear why every piece of old surplus HRM land needs to be turned into a blended commercial and community project. This approach spreads municipal services and resources more thinly as spending gets sprinkled arbitrarily over more and more parcels of land.

It's fine to identify the amenities this neighbourhood needs and doesn't have. It already has the Commons, Uniacke Square park and George Dixon, the Centennial pool, YMCA and library. Then there was that other development site nearby that was supposed to have a playground that was never built and nobody noticed.

It does feel a bit like it's Santa Claus coming to town when these old parcels come up. Then usually nothing gets built for years as people argue over how much stuff their neighbourhood should get or how important it is to make sure developers don't make too much money, and housing costs continue to escalate.

[Agricola]

Well, this is getting zesty!

[Good Baklava]

Defending anti-vaxxers* to describe anti-business attitudes is a bit of an odd tangent.

*More precisely, casting them as a victim of one of the countless contradictions in society.

[The Crow Whisperer]

WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO TAKE PEOPLE FOR HAY RIDES??? In traffic along Gottingen street with horse and buggies? That will go over like a sack of potatoes.

THE BOSS at the old West high school site is perfect model for St Pat Alexandra. Airb2b towers with ground floor retail with parking.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by The Crow Whisperer

WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO TAKE PEOPLE FOR HAY RIDES??? In traffic along Gottingen street with horse and buggies?

Nowhere because it’s a silly idea from a school project.

In my opinion the student probably added “hay rides” as filler when they were running out of ideas, not thinking a sophist would use it 5 years down the road to warn that “the end is near” for downtown.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by The Crow Whisperer

WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO TAKE PEOPLE FOR HAY RIDES??? In traffic along Gottingen street with horse and buggies? That will go over like a sack of potatoes.

Why are we still talking about a 5-year-old project of a planning student as though it was an actual plan for the property?

[The Crow Whisperer]

JONO wants 30 floors? That would be perfect. 30 floors of airb2b, with sushi and parking at the ground floor. Why limited to only 4 floors? Why have to preserve the ugly old school houses? Need more density, not mediocre 4 story brown buildings. Put up something high-rise, state of the art.

[The Crow Whisperer]

The Al Sharpton Shakedown began 7 years ago when "the Cum-YOO-nity" learned Jono wanted to develop.

The cum-YOO-nity demanded the ratepayers hand over the site lock stock and barrel to them, for free, and pay for everything, since they have no ability to pay and maintain it themselves.

Complete with a buzzword-laden 65 page wishlist that panders to all the trendy social justice causes de jour, including free houses, hot soup, and hay rides, and a pony--no, TWO ponies!

IMPORTANT: Must be Green and Energy Efficient, but also don't tear down the dilapidated school house built 100 years ago and replace it with state of the art modern building materials an construction techniques.

[mleblanc]

Originally Posted by The Crow Whisperer

The Al Sharpton Shakedown began 7 years ago when "the Cum-YOO-nity" learned Jono wanted to develop.

The cum-YOO-nity demanded the ratepayers hand over the site lock stock and barrel to them, for free, and pay for everything, since they have no ability to pay and maintain it themselves.

Complete with a buzzword-laden 65 page wishlist that panders to all the trendy social justice causes de jour, including free houses, hot soup, and hay rides, and a pony--no, TWO ponies!

IMPORTANT: Must be Green and Energy Efficient, but also don't tear down the dilapidated school house built 100 years ago and replace it with state of the art modern building materials an construction techniques.

You obviously have a lot of opinions about this site, so I might be wasting my time here... But of course the community has strong feelings. It doesn't take genius to understand that the surrounding neighbourhood has been home to a marginalized group for quite some time now - some that were historically forced out of their homes of Africville into this area.

The area has seen a lot of growth recently and the developments can cause real issues with these folk being gentrified out of their homes nearby. I'm not saying this lot can never be developed - but I'm trying to say that it makes sense to me that they are taking their time with this site and make it right for the community and the people living there currently.

Lastly, I don't understand while you keep holding onto this student project like it actually has meaning on the sites future. To be blunt, I don't understand what point you are trying to make at all on this discussion.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by mleblanc

Lastly, I don't understand while you keep holding onto this student project like it actually has meaning on the sites future.

It was a community consultation exercise. They're not binding demands.

But I do think there's a valid question why every previously HRM owned site begins as a community development exercise or with the presumption that developers need to pay in a special way for these sites. Instead I think it is better to start by asking what a neighbourhood needs.

How many millions would HRM have collected from this site had it been quietly developed as a market rate project many years ago? And what's the #1 thing people living around here would actually want that is missing as a public or private amenity? Not just stuff that seems like an okay way to use this particular parcel?

[The Crow Whisperer]

Great questions someone123.

The Needle Exchange, Friendship Centre, Health Clinic and Baptist Church have done a great job keeping the former school a blighted wasteland with their lawfare.

If Mr. Met ledge had been able to develop it 10 years ago then we would have millions for the tax base instead of an albatross around taxpayers necks. Valuable services and amenities instead of a derelict building. High quality apartments condos and airb2b, instead we have a housing shortage.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by someone123

It was a community consultation exercise. They're not binding demands.

But I do think there's a valid question why every previously HRM owned site begins as a community development exercise or with the presumption that developers need to pay in a special way for these sites. Instead I think it is better to start by asking what a neighbourhood needs.

How many millions would HRM have collected from this site had it been quietly developed as a market rate project many years ago? And what's the #1 thing people living around here would actually want that is missing as a public or private amenity? Not just stuff that seems like an okay way to use this particular parcel?

I would put a Grocery store at the top of the list followed by maybe a Bank.
Perhaps a satellite NSCC campus of some sort to actually mentor and directly train any local citizens that want to better their education.

Perhaps the private capital that has quietly helped the Hope Blooms enterprise, has educated the North enders that that is the way the wider world works?