Transit oriented development in Canada

vanman · #1 Posted **Jun 13, 2012, 6:36 PM**

I'm surprised this subject hasn't been touched on more here given the price of gas these days:

Quote:

Originally Posted by M II A II R II K

Transit-oriented buildings fetch higher rents

Jun. 11 2012

By FRANCES BULA

Quote:

Office vacancies are creeping up in buildings that are sometimes only a few crucial blocks away from a transit site. And the vacancy rates are even grimmer for many older business parks that were built kilometres from transit at a time when it seemed savvy to construct whole campuses on cheap land far from central business districts. “What we are hearing from tenants most often these days is that priority one is access to transit and it can’t even be a walk down the street,” says Brett Miller, president of Jones Lang Lasalle Real Estate Services in Canada.

- That was a priority for Vancity Credit Union when it built its new head office in 1995, a unique building where the SkyTrain literally runs right through the building. “We wanted to be on rapid transit and our stats show our staff use transit now 50 per cent more than the average for office workers,” said Jeremy Trigg, Vancity’s director of facilities and environmental management. It’s also a key factor for the giant engineering-consulting firm Fluor Canada, which has hung onto its downtown locations in Vancouver. “We felt it was the most efficient situation for our company,” said vice-president Vasee Navaratnam. A just-completed survey of the company’s 800 employees, who are spread out in three buildings near the Burrard SkyTrain station in downtown Vancouver, showed that 65 per cent arrive by transit.

- But Mr. Miller’s company decided to test the whole thesis in a way that went beyond anecdote. Jones Lang Lasalle has published two reports now, one at the beginning of this month, looking at the importance of transit in the Vancouver market. The latest of their “rapid transit office index” reports concluded that tenants are willing to pay considerably more to get into a similar building that’s closer to transit. The statistics-stuffed report concluded that tenants will pay a 22-per-cent premium in Vancouver, Surrey and Burnaby, three of the largest office markets, to be within 500 metres of a transit station. As well, vacancy rates for buildings outside that 500-metre range can go up to 25 per cent higher than a transit-oriented building in the same suburb.

- The situation is worse for some of the older business parks in suburbs without even a hint of reasonable bus transportation. “Richmond by far and away is our worst performing office market,” says Darrell Hurst, a commercial broker at Avison Young who handles Station Tower and other properties. Its business parks on the east side, far from the new Canada Line, are older and without some of the amenities – basketball courts or multiple restaurants – that newer ones have. And they are just plain hard to get to. Both Microsoft and BC Lottery Corp. moved out of Richmond in the past five years and into Vancouver. Mr. Hurst said some business parks are trying to grapple with the transportation issue by providing their own shuttles to the nearest transit station.

Read More:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...rticle4248615/

The Skytrain travels underneath Vancity Credit Union headquarters in Vancouver. June 5, 2012. (Jeff Vinnick/Jeff Vinnick/The Globe and Mail)

Coldrsx · #2 Posted **Jun 13, 2012, 6:37 PM**

... and proximity to transit is only going to become more lucrative as years go on. Why own a car if you don't really need one? The savings could be the difference between a 1bdrm and a 2.

vanman · #3 Posted **Jun 14, 2012, 11:31 PM**

It is becoming an obvious choice, for first time buyers especially, to choose a condo close to transit.

Anyway Vancouver has succeeded in creating many high density, transit oriented "urban villages" but the missing component has always been the lack of office space in these areas with a few exceptions. It seems that now, finally demand is growing for commercial space, and the low vancancy rates and high lease rates are proof of this. As more office space is built these area will truly become live/work, reducing commute times and increasing quality of life.

Examples of skytrain oriented commercial space in metro Vancouver u/c:

Metrotower 3 (Burnaby)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Brewery District (NW)

Merchant Square (NW)

Marine Drive Gateway (south Vancouver)

Anyways I created this thread so anyone could contribute examples of transit oriented development, new or existing, from their cities, so please feel free to participate!

MTLskyline · #4 Posted **Jun 15, 2012, 12:57 AM**

I imagine that the towers surrounding the Longueuil metro station were among some of the earliest examples of transited oriented development in Canada. Some of the buildings near the Metro are connected via skywalk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Longueuil_skyline.jpg

http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationP...il_Quebec.html

Rico Rommheim · #5 Posted **Jun 15, 2012, 2:39 AM**

NOw just replace these skywalks with tunnels and the good people of longueuil won't ever have to actually gaze upon their homes!

WhipperSnapper · #6 Posted **Jun 15, 2012, 3:04 AM**

I doubt it would work in the GTA. Any premium would be lost to building at a higher density. I guess Vaughan will be the real test.

BTW, Metrotower 3 is ridiculously skinny.

whiteford · #7 Posted **Nov 27, 2012, 10:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTLskyline

I imagine that the towers surrounding the Longueuil metro station were among some of the earliest examples of transited oriented development in Canada. Some of the buildings near the Metro are connected via skywalk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Longueuil_skyline.jpg

http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationP...il_Quebec.html

now that is icky looking if ever i saw icky looking. ewww

.

vanman · #8 Posted **Dec 4, 2012, 2:48 PM**

Surrey's 3 Civic Plaza. A 48-storey, 541-foot mixed used residential and hotel tower that will flank a new urban plaza and city hall adjacent to the Surrey Central skytrain station. Construction is supposed to begin in 2013.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whalleyboy

Construction of the new plaza and city hall is underway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spork

Innsertnamehere · #9 Posted **Jun 15, 2012, 3:34 AM**

One could argue that the entirety of NYCC is subway related development..

WhipperSnapper · #10 Posted **Jun 15, 2012, 12:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

One could argue that the entirety of NYCC is subway related development..

I didn't want to open that can of worms. While NYCC is successful, almost every other suburban employment centre backed by transit is not. Scarborough Centre has pretty glass buildings sitting empty for years. The last thing we need is for this to devolve into a tax debate.

The_Architect · #11 Posted **Jun 15, 2012, 12:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I didn't want to open that can of worms. While NYCC is successful, almost every other suburban employment centre backed by transit is not. Scarborough Centre has pretty glass buildings sitting empty for years. The last thing we need is for this to devolve into a tax debate.

Yonge-Eglinton?

trueviking · #12 Posted **Jun 15, 2012, 4:05 AM**

winnipeg's first TOD....decent considering that our T is only 3km long at this point.

construction to start soon.

http://speakupwinnipeg.com/ourwinnip...t-rouge-yards/

LeftCoaster · #13 Posted **Jun 15, 2012, 1:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

BTW, Metrotower 3 is ridiculously skinny.

Maybe it looks like it in that picture, but it has a GBA of 400,000sf over 25 floors leading to a roughly 16,000sf floorplate. I don't know too many who would consider a 16k sf floorplate in the suburbs to be ridiculiously skinny. At that size it wouldn't even look out of place in downtown Toronto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking

winnipeg's first TOD....decent considering that our T is only 3km long at this point.

construction to start soon.

Sorry for the ignorance but I haven't really heard much about Winnipeg's BRT. Can you post some info or a link?

WhipperSnapper · #14 Posted **Jun 16, 2012, 4:34 AM**

I disagree. Anything under 20k is quite skinny by GTA standards particularly at that height. Well, 25 storeys is unheard of in the 905 with the standard 905 building being about 6 storeys and 150,000 square feet. Meadowvale Corporate Centre is the the tallest in recent memory at 10 storeys and 250k.

trueviking · #15 Posted **Jun 18, 2012, 4:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Sorry for the ignorance but I haven't really heard much about Winnipeg's BRT. Can you post some info or a link?

dont be sorry...its easy to miss....it just opened and its puny....its a dedicated roadway on an old rail line.

the stations are nice but the line is just a start....the next phase is to connect to the U of M and the new stadium....its supposed to already have been under construction but our mayor is an idiot.

http://winnipegtransit.com/en/southw...itway/stations

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opi...144186285.html

dleung · #16 Posted **Jun 16, 2012, 1:45 PM**

Metrotower 3 would have looked alright if they didn't try to imitate Metrotower 1 & 2 for half of its bi-polar facade.

The skinniest office tower in the country will likely be the MNP tower, at 36 stories and 7500sf floorplates

Metro-One · #17 Posted **Jun 17, 2012, 11:41 PM**

Here are some quick, bad pics of the transit orientated development at New Westminster skytrain station. With all the shops opening up now there is a lot more activity. It is still not fully complete though.

Here you can see the train guideway going into the complex.

Below station level

And station level

While it does have some problems, I overall like this development and now often use the safeway when I am traveling through to quickly get some groceries.

Pics are my own:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/

Cheers

someone123 · #18 Posted **Jun 18, 2012, 12:37 AM**

I like the design of the New West station. There's a huge difference between the convenience of having a store you need right there and having the store in a mall separated from the station by a giant parking lot. Brentwood and Lougheed are like this because the malls pre-date the station. Brentwood's getting a big development though and hopefully Lougheed will too.

SpongeG · #19 Posted **Jun 18, 2012, 3:50 AM**

Lougheed us, I saw renders it shows 8 towers going around the mall, with some mixed use, I think they will finish off brentwood first though

logan5 · #20 Posted **Jun 18, 2012, 4:34 AM**

Surrey is trying to establish itself with TOD and touting itself as a future rival of Vancouver, but Richmond and Burnaby are in Berzerk mode right now. Burnaby is in an especially strong position with its proximity to Vancouver and a whopping 11 Skytrain stations, 4 strong town centres - even Edmonds is pretty good, with a lot of potential to create a Commercial Drive St. vibe on Edmonds St., north of Kingsway. With this huge upswing in population around the Skytrain stations should come demand for more job space, especially around Metrotown. Metrotown is positioned right in the middle of the present and future Skytrain network, making it a fast destination for most people in Metro Van.

I'm picking on Surrey here but Richmond and Burnaby are quickly pulling away. I guess that's why so many want more Skytrain in Surrey.