Mississauga & Brampton: Hurontario-Main LRT

Doady · #1 Posted **Jun 19, 2010, 12:16 AM**

The suburban municipalities of Mississauga and Brampton west of Toronto recently completed a study to determine the best rapid transit solution for their Hurontario Street corridor (called Main St in Brampton) which can be found on this site: www.hurontario-main.ca. They eventually decided on LRT.

Almost all the Hurontario-Main corridor was developed from the 60s onward, and that development is still ongoing as the corridor is still lined with many greenfields.
Here is how it looked like 2004, near the proposed Queensway station, one of the oldest parts of the corridor (compare it with the concept drawings in the pdf):

Rapid transit is considered a high priority because of the high density zoning and frequent closed-door situations on the buses, despite the buses coming at 3 to 4 minute intervals during rush hour in the Mississauga portion (such as photographed above). With a length of approximately 20km and a ridership of 30,000 per weekday, the bus service already has higher ridership per km than many LRT lines. So capacity was a major reason for choosing LRT, though there was a serious push for BRT from local politicians, which failed (fortunately).

The proposed Hurontario-Main LRT is projected to cost approximately $1.1 billion and will have 30 stations, with trains operating at a 4 -5 minute frequency. The LRT will have an estimated ridership of approximately 100,000 boardings per weekday, which would make it one of the busiest light rail transit lines in North America.

The LRT projected to be completed within the next 15 years as it is consider high priority for Metrolinx, the region's transit coordinating agency.

Lots of detailed maps and other info can be found in this document: http://www.hurontario-main.ca/PDFs/P...n%20Boards.pdf

J. Will · #2 Posted **Jun 22, 2010, 4:47 PM**

This line would do wonders, I really hope it happens. I have no doubt that, despite connecting one suburb to another, it would do 100,000 passengers per day. That is several times the ridership of light rail lines (especially some of the newer ones) in many "cities" (and I use that term loosely), which is pretty sad when you think about it - though that's a topic for another day.

I'm not sure how they'd maintain full ROW going up Living Arts Drive and along Rathburn. I guess you could just have one car lane each direction, though on Rathburn that might back up buses a lot, which would not be good. Probably best to have it either buried or elevated there. Or they could run it through the northern end of some of the Square One parking lots.

Another issue to me would be how would the stop along Hurontario at Cooksville GO work? Presumably you'd want it right at the tracks, and not at Hillcrest Avenue (where cars and buses go to access the station). Maybe there could be stairs and an elevator to get people up to an extended pedestrian platform running alongside the tracks? Of course you'd also need a stop light with crosswalk for people headed to Hurontario's sidewalks instead of the station. There is currently no crosswalk or stoplights there because there is no cross street. Maybe someone has a better idea of how to connect a Hurontario LRT stop to Cooksville GO:

Presumably the Living Arts stop would be right around Living Arts Drive and Princess Royal Drive, just a few hundred feet East of the massive (6000 condos in 30 acres) Parkside Village development.

From there maybe it could somehow cut through the site of the MCC Sheridan Campus (being built in the bottom left of the below picture) to get to the Mississauga Transit Terminal (top right of below picture). Wouldn't it be cool if it were elevated and went right through the second floor of the college like some monorails go through buildings? Though I suppose that wouldn't make sense unless there was also a stop inside the building. Might be too late for that though as it's already under construction - though it could even run alongside the building.

Main and George Streets (I assume that's where it would run) in downtown Brampton are narrow. If they took away the two middle lanes for LRT, they would no longer be able to have on-street parking:

Doady · #3 Posted **Jun 23, 2010, 7:10 PM**

The Downtown Brampton section is one way, so only one lane would need to be taken away.

A pedestrian bridge across Hurontario will be built at Cooksville GO soon (like the existing bridge at Erindale GO across Burnhamthorpe). Hopefully it acommodate future LRT, but perhaps it is not reasonable accommodation.

The Livings Arts, Burnhamthorpe, CCTT is kinda pointless, I have no comment about that. I think you will find renders and detailed maps for each section on the site somewhere.

J. Will · #4 Posted **Jun 23, 2010, 7:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doady

The Livings Arts, Burnhamthorpe, CCTT is kinda pointless, I have no comment about that.

You think it's pointless to serve thousands (probably 10s of thousands) of residents and the busiest transit terminal in all of the suburbs?

Doady · #5 Posted **Jun 23, 2010, 8:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Will

You think it's pointless to serve thousands (probably 10s of thousands) of residents and the busiest transit terminal in all of the suburbs?

Transit terminal is need to connect the regular MT bus route and all the BRT routes and Square One..

The BRT and all the bus routes (except 6, 9, and 66) already intersect with Hurontario Street, so there is no point for Hurontario to connect with the terminal. It does not allow people closer to Square One than the propose City Centre Dr. station would. 6, 9, and 66 can be extended to connect with the LRT if needed.

Yes it allows connection to Parkside Village, but takes away the Hurontario section between Rathburn and Burnhamthorpe, and all those office buildings, and weakens Hurontario as a corridor. Not to mention it is incredibly inconvenient for people who just want to bypass MCC.

And of course, with the BRT along Rathburn, there is no space for LRT anyways unless it taken off street and underground.

I can see point in the CCTT diversion maybe if there were plans for Eglinton and Dundas LRTs as well, and if they served MCC. But I don't think there is such capacity for multiple lines like that. Remember they are already planning 4 minute service and Hurontario by itself is a very high ridership route. There is no room for such overlap.

Due to capacity constraints, Hurontario must be single line, and the line that goes straight through MCC is best.

J. Will · #6 Posted **Jun 24, 2010, 7:13 AM**

Personally I'd much rather be able to wait inside the transit terminal, especially when they weather sucks, and even be able to go to Chapters/Starbucks for a few minutes, than have to wait on a street corner along Hurontario Street with cars flying be a few feet from me. They could still have trains that bypass the loop and go straight up Hurontario - maybe every other train makes the loop around Square One.

Do you really wanna be standing at Hurontario/Burnhamthorpe in the middle of winter waiting for the 26?

Doady · #7 Posted **Oct 1, 2010, 2:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Will

Personally I'd much rather be able to wait inside the transit terminal, especially when they weather sucks, and even be able to go to Chapters/Starbucks for a few minutes, than have to wait on a street corner along Hurontario Street with cars flying be a few feet from me.

One of the aims of any decent LRT project is improve the streets for pedestrians and encourage TOD development. After all, the LRT will take away 2 lanes from Hurontario, and not mention lanes will be taken away for parallel parking as well (which would shield pedestrians and calm traffic), and it was chosen because of redevelopment potential

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Will

They could still have trains that bypass the loop and go straight up Hurontario - maybe every other train makes the loop around Square One.

The trains wouldn't go straight up Hurontario. They would use City Centre Dr. The BRT/LRT connection would be at City Centre/Rathburn, not on Hurontario itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Will

Do you really wanna be standing at Hurontario/Burnhamthorpe in the middle of winter waiting for the 26?

Hurontario/Burnhamthorpe wouldn't look the same in 20 years as it does today anyways. Again, part of the plan is to change Hurontario St itself and there is an expectation that it will encourage a lot of redevelopment (which was why LRT was chosen instead of BRT in the first place). So I don't see why the characteristic of that intersection should discourage LRT. And there are some famous towers being built there...

miketoronto · #8 Posted **Oct 1, 2010, 3:44 AM**

Forget a glorified streetcar route. Lets see Hurontario get a nice underground train route. If Sydney can built a suburban underground rail line, I am sure Toronto can do it on Hurountario, which could so support such a route.
Click to see

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=D0z3...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh3UN4MTA6s

Doady · #9 Posted **Oct 1, 2010, 4:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by miketoronto

Forget a glorified streetcar route. Lets see Hurontario get a nice underground train route. If Sydney can built a suburban underground rail line, I am sure Toronto can do it on Hurountario, which could so support such a route.
Click to see

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=D0z3...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh3UN4MTA6s

With a projected average speed of 32 km/h, the Hurontario LRT will be as fast as the TTC (Toronto) subway.

Furthermore, only the southern portion of Hurontario (Eglinton southward, in Mississauga only) pictured above would have enough ridership and density to support a subway line. But in no part of the corridor will the ridership be so high that LRT cannot fulfill the demand. And considering the huge width of most the corridor, there is no space constraints for LRT, so subway is not even necessary to begin with.

Furthermore, the underground suburban rail line in Sydney that you reference is a commuter rail line. It is for regional travel. It has not applicable to transit along Hurontario/Main Street because Hurontario/Main is a local transit corridor. Therefore your entire post has no relevance whatsoever to this thread or the discussion at hand.

Justin10000 · #10 Posted **Oct 1, 2010, 1:27 PM**

Bang on Doady. Mr. Toronto is just taking another job at surface LRT. Takes any chance he can. Building a subway on Hurontario makes no sense, and LRT will work perfectly.

The LRT must serve the CCT, and the development west of Duke of York Blvd. I do not know how it will work, but expect major changes in that area, for sure.

goodthings · #11 Posted **Nov 18, 2010, 6:41 AM**

The Master Plan is in:

(28 MB)
http://hurontario-main.ca/PDFs/maste...nal_LowRes.pdf

(139 MB)
http://hurontario-main.ca/PDFs/maste...al_HighRes.pdf

More documents / appendices in:
http://hurontario-main.ca/masterplan.html

Doady · #12 Posted **Nov 19, 2010, 5:38 PM**

Whoa. Maybe it's better to download low-res version...

Okay, so my 100,000 riders per weekday calculation was off; the projected ridership is actually 110,000 riders per weekday. Just for reference, in North America, only Boston, Calgary and Monterrey currently have busier light rail lines than that.

The projected ridership is quite high so the LRVs will be coupled into two or three car trains (each car has a capacity of 138 people) and boarding platforms will be 60m long. 20 trains will provide 4-5 minute service and the average speed will be 35 km/h (as fast as the TTC subway).

Much of Hurontario will see two lanes taken away. That's huge. This is suburbia we are talking about here after all. Older parts of the corridor, the LRT will operate in mixed traffic (highlighted blue on the map in the original post).

The construction will be done in two phases: the northern section, Burnhamthorpe to Downtown Brampton, by 2016; and southern section, Burnhamthorpe to Port Credit, by 2021. I think this is a mistake because the southern section is much busier and denser right now, but that's politics for ya. But I guess they do technical justifications for it also (connecting to the LRV storage/maintenance facility at Highway 407).

rapid_business · #13 Posted **Nov 24, 2010, 2:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doady

Whoa. Maybe it's better to download low-res version...

Okay, so my 100,000 riders per weekday calculation was off; the projected ridership is actually 110,000 riders per weekday. Just for reference, in North America, only Boston, Calgary and Monterrey currently have busier light rail lines than that.

Actually, Edmonton's is over 100k now that the south extension fully opened this spring.

goodthings · #14 Posted **Nov 22, 2010, 11:42 PM**

I find it really, really smart for them to have two centre platforms in the Square One area: inner side for BRT, outer side for LRT, since LRT will have left doors anyway.

haljackey · #15 Posted **Nov 25, 2010, 5:18 AM**

Too bad the new Hurontario / Highway 401 interchange isn't being built with LRT in mind.

Guess the line will have to use a separate over/underpass to cross the behemoth of a highway. (It's currently being widened from 6 to 14 lanes.)

goodthings · #16 Posted **Jun 26, 2011, 10:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by haljackey

Too bad the new Hurontario / Highway 401 interchange isn't being built with LRT in mind.

It's 6 lanes. With the LRT, it will be reduced to 4. So the LRT right-of-way has been allocated.

Doady · #17 Posted **Jun 26, 2011, 11:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodthings

It's 6 lanes. With the LRT, it will be reduced to 4. So the LRT right-of-way has been allocated.

Yeah, and the new bridge itself is 8 lanes wide - plenty of space.

Doady · #18 Posted **Jun 26, 2011, 4:19 AM**

Mississauga’s better way
Published On Fri Jun 24 2011

The proposed light rail transit line along Hurontario St. would run along dedicated lanes and as a side effect spur development that conforms with Ontario's Places to Grow policy.
SUPPLIED ILLUSTRATION

Ryan Starr
Special to the Star

Matthew Williams sees Mississauga’s plan for a $1.2 billion light rail line (LRT) along Hurontario St. as being about more than just transit. He believes the LRT is an essential part of an ambitious strategy to make the city a better place to live.

“It’s really about creating a vision for change,” says Williams, a city transportation planner who led a study that identified the LRT as the best transit option for Mississauga’s primary thoroughfare.

The proposed LRT line would run along Hurontario St. — the city’s busiest corridor — connecting Port Credit to downtown Brampton with as many as 32 stations on the 20-kilometre route.

...

http://www.thestar.com/news/transpor...a-s-better-way

osmo · #19 Posted **Jun 27, 2011, 1:42 AM**

Good for Peel Region. This project and the K-W LRT project is going to make Toronto look very stupid very soon. I'm happy cities are warming up to LRT, this looks great.

miketoronto · #20 Posted **Jun 27, 2011, 3:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo

Good for Peel Region. This project and the K-W LRT project is going to make Toronto look very stupid very soon. I'm happy cities are warming up to LRT, this looks great.

No it is not because Metrolinx just released a study showing that fully grade separated transit in Toronto(not LRT in the middle of the road) is going to attract vastly more people to transit, and double ridership in the peak direction per hour.