Entry-Level Mega Cities

[park123]

Of course this will unfortunately be totally subjective, but for me, there are some cities which are clearly world-class large. Mega cities. Everyone will have a different list. For me for example, it would obviously include NYC, Tokyo, London, Paris, Beijing, Shanghai, and others. Buenos Aires, Sao Paolo, Mumbai, there are quite a few, especially in the developing world.

I'm from the USA, and America is sparse when it comes to those kinds of really large cities. Obviously. Most people would say just NYC. For me, for example, San Francisco, while not a small town, definitely doesn't feel on remotely the same scale as say NYC or London.

But what about Chicago? How does it feel to you? For me, I think it just might be what you could call an entry-level mega city. The greater downtown is quite large and very impressive looking, Michigan Ave is a world-class shopping street, there are a lot of outer neighborhoods where most of the nightlife and dining action are concentrated... all in all Chicago felt like a definite step up from SF or Boston or DC. And if you squint just right and use your imagination, something a little similar to NYC. So I guess I could call Chicago an entry-level mega city so to speak. Maybe on par with Osaka Japan (although in a different way, with Osaka much busier and Chicago much grander).

In North America, if I'm honest and include Chicago, I should also include Toronto. Toronto is not as grand as Chicago, but it's growing much faster and just feels more international and dynamic.

What do you think? Would you classify Chicago that way, or is it really not too different than SF for example? Any other cities like that, that come to mind?

[the urban politician]

This thread has some major potential to devolve into a bad place

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by park123

I'm from the USA, and America is sparse when it comes to those kinds of really large cities. Obviously. Most people would say just NYC. For me, for example, San Francisco, while not a small town, definitely doesn't feel on remotely the same scale as say NYC or London.

But what about Chicago? How does it feel to you? For me, I think it just might be what you could call an entry-level mega city. The greater downtown is quite large and very impressive looking, Michigan Ave is a world-class shopping street, there are a lot of outer neighborhoods where most of the nightlife and dining action are concentrated... all in all Chicago felt like a definite step up from SF or Boston or DC. And if you squint just right and use your imagination, something a little similar to NYC. So I guess I could call Chicago an entry-level mega city so to speak. Maybe on par with Osaka Japan (although in a different way, with Osaka much busier and Chicago much grander).

In North America, if I'm honest and include Chicago, I should also include Toronto. Toronto is not as grand as Chicago, but it's growing much faster and just feels more international and dynamic.

What do you think? Would you classify Chicago that way, or is it really not too different than SF for example? Any other cities like that, that come to mind?

Los Angeles (and Mexico City if that's considered North America) are bigger than Chicago.

But yes, the dictionary definition a Megacity is a metro of 10+ million. The USA has 3, NYC, Chicago (almost but global influence makes up for it) and LA.

I wouldn't say sparse in the sense that most countries don't have any "Megacities", obviously China is a special case.

[park123]

I left out LA because personally, it’s missing the “city” part of the “mega-city”. But I can totally see others including it. It has the population, GDP, shopping, nightlife, etc.

And with North America, I’m using the colloquial Canadian definition of USA + Canada. Of course Mexico City is a mega city.

[iheartthed]

I agree with Chicago as the entry-level "mega city". I also agree with L.A. not quite feeling like a mega-city in the traditional sense due to its auto-oriented nature. Maybe L.A. is the 20th century American take on the mega city.

[The Chemist]

Some provincial capitals (the ones that aren't true megacities like Chengdu, Wuhan, and Guangzhou are) and many other prefecture-level cities in China would probably fit into this category.

[craigs]

No, neither Chicago nor Toronto feel as large as megacities like New York, London, Los Angeles, Mexico City, etc.

[Shawn]

I'll give my normal disclaimer in threads like this: once you live in East Asia, your perspective necessarily changes.

In North America, only NYC and Mexico City on the whole feel on par with the big boys in the East. By this, I mean in scale, intensity, and overall size.

You can feel like you're in a mega-city in small, select areas of a few other North American cities, but the second you venture away from these bubbles, things feel noticeably smaller than what you'd find in a true mega-city. The sustained scale just isn't there. You can find this in Chicago, LA, SF, and Toronto. I'm presuming some other Mexican cities I've never been to as well.

Scale really matters here. For reference, think about this: mega-cities like Tokyo and Seoul see about 20 million daily riders in their public transit networks. The Yamanote Line alone sees more daily riders (4.2 million) than either the entire NYC subway system, or all daily rail riders (heavy, light, commuter train) in Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston, San Francisco, and DC combined.

If you've never experienced the scale out here, it's hard to imagine. When you come back to a (by North American standards) large metro like Boston or Philly which used to feel impressive, things sadly feel a lot quainter than before.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Shawn

I'll give my normal disclaimer in threads like this: once you live in East Asia, your perspective necessarily changes.

In North America, only NYC and Mexico City on the whole feel on par with the big boys in the East. By this, I mean in scale, intensity, and overall size.

You can feel like you're in a mega-city in small, select areas of a few other North American cities, but the second you venture away from these bubbles, things feel noticeably smaller than what you'd find in a true mega-city. The sustained scale just isn't there. You can find this in Chicago, LA, SF, and Toronto. I'm presuming some other Mexican cities I've never been to as well.

Scale really matters here. For reference, think about this: mega-cities like Tokyo and Seoul see about 20 million daily riders in their public transit networks. The Yamanote Line alone sees more daily riders (4.2 million) than either the entire NYC subway system, or all daily rail riders (heavy, light, commuter train) in Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston, San Francisco, and DC combined.

If you've never experienced the scale out here, it's hard to imagine. When you come back to a (by North American standards) large metro like Boston or Philly which used to feel impressive, things sadly feel a lot quainter than before.

Tokyo felt larger and more intense than LA and NY combined. Just insane and never ending

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

Tokyo felt larger and more intense than LA and NY combined. Just insane and never ending

If we used American Census definitions to calculate the "Tokyo-Yokohama-Kawasaki-Saitama-Chiba CMA", it actually would be larger than LA and NY combined!

Here's something worth mentioning though, lest everyone think I'm one of those expats who likes to shit on home: NYC is still, in my opinion, the grandest city on the planet. Nothing - nothing - is as impressive to me as the Midtown skyscraper canyons. The only city in Asia which has hints of NYC's grandeur is Shanghai.

I've thought a lot about what makes each of the world's famous mega-cities special. NYC has grandeur on lock. Paris is singularly beautiful. London is paradoxically intimate. Shanghai has an unrivaled level of energy. Tokyo is humanity's most significant accomplishment of scale. Sao Paulo might be humanity at its most intense. Taipei might be the largest collection of friendly positivity and optimism on the planet. I don't know what to make of Jakarta and Bangkok, even after visiting many times. Seoul is a hard one to peg a specific attribute to as well. Beijing changes too fast for me to form a lasting opinion. And Manila . . . makes me sad.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by Shawn

If we used American Census definitions to calculate the "Tokyo-Yokohama-Kawasaki-Saitama-Chiba CMA", it actually would be larger than LA and NY combined!

Here's something worth mentioning though, lest everyone think I'm one of those expats who likes to shit on home: NYC is still, in my opinion, the grandest city on the planet. Nothing - nothing - is as impressive to me as the Midtown skyscraper canyons. The only city in Asia which has hints of NYC's grandeur is Shanghai.

I've thought a lot about what makes each of the world's famous mega-cities special. NYC has grandeur on lock. Paris is singularly beautiful. London is paradoxically intimate. Shanghai has an unrivaled level of energy. Tokyo is humanity's most significant accomplishment of scale. Sao Paulo might be humanity at its most intense. Taipei might be the largest collection of friendly positivity and optimism on the planet. I don't know what to make of Jakarta and Bangkok, even after visiting many times. Seoul is a hard one to peg a specific attribute to as well. Beijing changes too fast for me to form a lasting opinion. And Manila . . . makes me sad.

Taipei is awesome. If I wasn't married with kids here in Shanghai, I think I'd move there. One of my favourite cities in the world.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Here's something worth mentioning though, lest everyone think I'm one of those expats who likes to shit on home: NYC is still, in my opinion, the grandest city on the planet. Nothing - nothing - is as impressive to me as the Midtown skyscraper canyons. The only city in Asia which has hints of NYC's grandeur is Shanghai.

How about Hong Kong? I've never been, but Manhattan and HK Island/Kowloon are the two places I think as epitomizing "the city". Urbanity at its grandest and most intense.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

How about Hong Kong? I've never been, but Manhattan and HK Island/Kowloon are the two places I think as epitomizing "the city". Urbanity at its grandest and most intense.

That's a good call and not one I'd question. For me though, Hong Kong is humanity at it's most intense. When you're in the thick of TST or Wan Chai, it's easy to feel you're in the middle of it all. This feeling is similar to what I get in NYC. But HK just ends in spots. Kowloon goes on a bit further, but it's only a few blocks from Central or Admiralty to nearly-vertical jungle cliffs. Slight exaggeration, but think about the view of HK and Kowloon from the Cliffs or Victoria Peak: the most striking thing is the density slamming against green slopes. In NYC, the skyscraper canyon avenues run north-south in straight lines for miles and miles of uninterrupted splendor. Geography doesn't let this happen in HK. Nathan Road in Kowloon is the only avenue which comes close.

(I know I had Sao Paulo listed for "most intense", but I've never actually been there, so I'm going off Google Earth, YouTube drone and helicopter videos, and of course SSP.)

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

Tokyo felt larger and more intense than LA and NY combined. Just insane and never ending

That's odd... What struck me about Tokyo was how comfortable it felt. Language barrier notwithstanding, Tokyo and Yokohama were the homiest, most comfortable places I've ever traveled. Not "insane" at all. I got the same feeling, but a little less so, in London and Paris. By contrast New York was just okay.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

That's odd... What struck me about Tokyo was how comfortable it felt. Language barrier notwithstanding, Tokyo and Yokohama were the homiest, most comfortable places I've ever traveled. Not "insane" at all. I got the same feeling, but a little less so, in London and Paris. By contrast New York was just okay.

I only meant insane in its intensity and vastness. The people were great and it felt like home to me as well

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

I only meant insane in its intensity and vastness. The people were great and it felt like home to me as well

If you want to talk about insane in the sense of actually being somewhat insane... London. I loved London, could easily live there, but you definitely get the feeling in London that just out of sight, people are getting up to some weird shit.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by Shawn

I'll give my normal disclaimer in threads like this: once you live in East Asia, your perspective necessarily changes.

In North America, only NYC and Mexico City on the whole feel on par with the big boys in the East. By this, I mean in scale, intensity, and overall size.

You can feel like you're in a mega-city in small, select areas of a few other North American cities, but the second you venture away from these bubbles, things feel noticeably smaller than what you'd find in a true mega-city. The sustained scale just isn't there. You can find this in Chicago, LA, SF, and Toronto. I'm presuming some other Mexican cities I've never been to as well.

Scale really matters here. For reference, think about this: mega-cities like Tokyo and Seoul see about 20 million daily riders in their public transit networks. The Yamanote Line alone sees more daily riders (4.2 million) than either the entire NYC subway system, or all daily rail riders (heavy, light, commuter train) in Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston, San Francisco, and DC combined.

If you've never experienced the scale out here, it's hard to imagine. When you come back to a (by North American standards) large metro like Boston or Philly which used to feel impressive, things sadly feel a lot quainter than before.

True, felt this way about Shanghai, the place is just indescribably huge.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

True, felt this way about Shanghai, the place is just indescribably huge.

Yep. Been here 12 years and there's still a lot of the city I've never been to, particularly in the northern half of the city.

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by Shawn

I'll give my normal disclaimer in threads like this: once you live in East Asia, your perspective necessarily changes.

In North America, only NYC and Mexico City on the whole feel on par with the big boys in the East. By this, I mean in scale, intensity, and overall size.

You can feel like you're in a mega-city in small, select areas of a few other North American cities, but the second you venture away from these bubbles, things feel noticeably smaller than what you'd find in a true mega-city. The sustained scale just isn't there. You can find this in Chicago, LA, SF, and Toronto. I'm presuming some other Mexican cities I've never been to as well.

Scale really matters here. For reference, think about this: mega-cities like Tokyo and Seoul see about 20 million daily riders in their public transit networks. The Yamanote Line alone sees more daily riders (4.2 million) than either the entire NYC subway system, or all daily rail riders (heavy, light, commuter train) in Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston, San Francisco, and DC combined.

If you've never experienced the scale out here, it's hard to imagine. When you come back to a (by North American standards) large metro like Boston or Philly which used to feel impressive, things sadly feel a lot quainter than before.

I have never been to Asia, but I feel the same way about New York City. It's overwhelmingly big. Everything on Manhattan from Central Park southward is basically all a central business district. There's blocks and blocks and blocks in Midtown where buildings are 7-10 stories tall. You don't get that intensity and overall size, to use your words, even in cities like Los Angeles or Chicago or Toronto.

[badrunner]

Entry level? So like cities that meet all the requirements of a mega city, but lacking the high end luxury features and fit and finish of the higher trim premium models?