What cities in North America have highest public transit ridership?

[nec209]

What cities in North America have highest public transit ridership?

I would think New York, Boston, Chicago and Los Angeles would have the highest public transit ridership? And then Toronto and Vancouver some where there.

I’m wondering what the rank would be on what cities have the highest public transit ridership?

[Doady]

After COVID:







Pre-COVID:

[nec209]

That is really interesting stats, I wonder the high Asian immigrants and European immigrants explains the high public transit ridership in Canada over the US. As people in Asia and Europe are use to public transit so it not culture shock for them and feel at home seeing public transit.

[Northern Light]

Originally Posted by nec209

That is really interesting stats, I wonder the high Asian immigrants and European immigrants explains the high public transit ridership in Canada over the US. As people in Asia and Europe are use to public transit so it not culture shock for them and feel at home seeing public transit.

I think you will find service frequency is a key factor.

Most larger Canadian Cities have fairly extensive bus networks with buses every 15M or better, such networks are much rarer in the U.S. The video linked below has some comparisons:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...s-a-long-story

[nec209]

Originally Posted by Northern Light

I think you will find service frequency is a key factor.

Most larger Canadian Cities have fairly extensive bus networks with buses every 15M or better, such networks are much rarer in the U.S. The video linked below has some comparisons:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...s-a-long-story

So urban cities like Miami, Los Angeles and San Francisco the bus does not run every 15 minutes?

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by nec209

So urban cities like Miami, Los Angeles and San Francisco the bus does not run every 15 minutes?

LA def has buses under 15 minutes. Even in the far flung parts of the Valley like Van Nuys/North Hills theyre usually in the 10-15 minute range on weekdays.

I'd say every 7-8 minutes for the busier routes in the city like Wilshire Blvd.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by nec209

So urban cities like Miami, Los Angeles and San Francisco the bus does not run every 15 minutes?

Depends on the bus line and what time of day. I live and work in Los Angeles' San Gabriel Valley.

If/when I take the bus to work (I had to in June one morning because I had a flat tire the night before), the one going to work runs every 11 to 12 minutes. The one in the afternoon going home runs every 7 to 8 minutes.

And I have one transfer. So, the first bus I take is the one that runs every 11-12 minutes in the morning, and then the 2nd bus I take runs every 7-8 minutes in the afternoon, weekdays.

[nec209]

Originally Posted by LA21st

LA def has buses under 15 minutes. Even in the far flung parts of the Valley like Van Nuys/North Hills theyre usually in the 10-15 minute range on weekdays.

I'd say every 7-8 minutes for the busier routes in the city like Wilshire Blvd.

Than it must be more of a culture thing where people in the US view cars has freedom and privacy and only poor person will take a bus. Where has in Canada they don’t view like that.

That is what I was saying Canada has lots and lots of Asian immigrants and European immigrants that to them is not culture shock as they use to that in their country. So they feel at home seeing and taking bus in Canada. Has they did that in their country.

Owing a car and driving more of US culture. Where that culture did not impact Canada has much probably because of lots of Asian immigrants and European immigrants.

[nec209]

Originally Posted by LA21st

LA def has buses under 15 minutes. Even in the far flung parts of the Valley like Van Nuys/North Hills theyre usually in the 10-15 minute range on weekdays.

I'd say every 7-8 minutes for the busier routes in the city like Wilshire Blvd.

Other thing the government and city is not going to spend lots and lots of money on public transit if it is frown on in the US. Where in Canada taking public transit is not frown on in Canada like it is in the US.

[Doady]

I think frequency is not a big factor. Frequency is mostly a consequence of high ridership, not the other way around. Transit agencies dealing overcrowding are not going to throw buses onto low demand routes.

If you increase the service from 30 minutes to 15 minutes, you reduce the average waiting time by only 7.5 minutes. Adding a new route to reduce the walking distance makes a much bigger difference than increasing the frequency.

Places like Quebec City and Halifax don't get a lot of immigrants compared to other Canadian and US cities, so that cannot be a major factor either.

Note the higher rate of walking and cycling in Canada. Perhaps the cities are built a little differently. The extreme sprawl of the southeastern US cities is obvious. But comparing for example Minneapolis-St. Paul to Winnipeg, the difference in built form is not so obvious.

Winnipeg Transit averaged 201,492 boardings per weekday in the fourth quarter of 2023, while Metro Transit averaged 145,600 boardings per weekday during that same period. Why does Winnipeg's transit system get 38% more riders when its urban area has 1/3 of the population of Minneapolis-St. Paul? There is a lot more to 4x higher ridership per capita than higher frequencies and immigration.

[nec209]

Winnipeg Transit averaged 201,492 boardings per weekday in the fourth quarter of 2023, while Metro Transit averaged 145,600 boardings per weekday during that same period. Why does Winnipeg's transit system get 38% more riders when its urban area

What do you mean that Winnipeg suburb area has more ridership than the urban area of Winnipeg?

[Doady]

Suburb? I was comparing Winnipeg Transit to Metro Transit. Metro Transit serves the Minneapolis-St. Paul urban area. So it's 201,492 boardings per weekday in Winnipeg vs. 146,500 in Minneapolis-St. Paul.

[nec209]

Originally Posted by Doady

Suburb? I was comparing Winnipeg Transit to Metro Transit. Metro Transit serves the Minneapolis-St. Paul urban area. So it's 201,492 boardings per weekday in Winnipeg vs. 146,500 in Minneapolis-St. Paul.

Only 53% people are European in Winnipeg. The others are none white.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Winnipeg

It also does say from 1960 to now how many new European move to Winnipeg.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Doady

I think frequency is not a big factor. Frequency is mostly a consequence of high ridership, not the other way around. Transit agencies dealing overcrowding are not going to throw buses onto low demand routes.

That's partly true but is missing some nuance. Many cities have frequent service at peak times with a lack of frequency mainly being an issue off-peak. So if a city has enough buses to deal with demand at peak, they certainly have enough to run more frequently at other times. But they tend to cut off-peak frequency to save money the ridership is lower. Yet while off-peak tends to have much lower ridership at any given moment, there's usually more riders overall since off-peak lasts for so much longer. So if an agency keeps service frequency higher off-peak it can definitely increase overall ridership by both attracting more riders at those times and by re-assuring riders that the service will be there when needed even if it's only on occasion. So an agency that retains frequency off-peak can persuade more people to live car-free while one that focuses on peak-service is mostly used by peak commuters and captive riders.

Originally Posted by Doady

If you increase the service from 30 minutes to 15 minutes, you reduce the average waiting time by only 7.5 minutes. Adding a new route to reduce the walking distance makes a much bigger difference than increasing the frequency.

Most cities, at least in Canada, already have routes that cover any major street where it's feasible to run buses so there isn't really an option to add new routes that bring buses closer. Any new routes tend to connect to a different destination or use a different combination of major streets. So adding frequency does tend to be the main way of improving service. And average wait time is mostly just relevant with routes that are already frequent enough to be "show up and go" where most people don't bother checking a schedule. Few people will randomly show up at a stop served only every 30 minutes unless they're from out of town or something. They show up when they expect the bus to arrive. So if the bus doesn't go when people want to leave, they're not standing around waiting for it. But if the service isn't convenient due to a lack of frequency they just won't continue using it unless they have no other choice.

[Northern Light]

Originally Posted by nec209

So urban cities like Miami, Los Angeles and San Francisco the bus does not run every 15 minutes?

As compared with Toronto or Montreal? No.

You didn't watch the video did you? There maps of 15M service of different cities that a compared.

Miami just launched its 'better bus network' (every 15M or better) in 2023.

The Map is here:

https://www.miamidade.gov/transit/li...system-map.pdf

You can see the red lines are every 15M or better, the blue are 30M frequency. The red lines are relatively sparse compared to the Toronto area.

This is one for LA:

https://www.metro.net/wp-content/upl...tem-detail.pdf

The thick lines are buses every 15M or better (or rail).

As you can see, most of the lines are thin.

This is a system map for Toronto: (bus)

https://cdn.ttc.ca/-/media/Project/T...9d81469c79a57e

Note that the thick lines here denote service every 10M or better.

****

The difference in subway/Metro is similarly substantial.

In Toronto all peak subway service is every 3M '40 or better. While in L.A. is generally every 5-8M; off-peak in Toronto is 4-6M while in L.A. its 8-10M

Chicago's El service (subway) can be as good as every 4M but is commonly only every 15M off peak.

That makes a huge difference in terms of convenience. Particularly true if you have to transfer one or more times en route.

Its not just the time you save waiting the first time, its the time you save waiting at each transfer as well.

[202_Cyclist]

The title of this thread is North America. I would think Mexico City would be among the highest, with more than 60% of residents in the Mexico City metropolitan area using riding transit.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...67070X17305930

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

The title of this thread is North America. I would think Mexico City would be among the highest, with more than 60% of residents in the Mexico City metropolitan area using riding transit.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...67070X17305930

I notice a lot of Canadian posters on here ignore Mexico when they talk about "North America." And the Caribbean for that matter, which is part of North America as well.

Incidentally, Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic has a rail rapid transit system.
• Video Link

[ColDayMan]

Don't forget North America's most southern large city, Panama City: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Metro

And Monterrey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrorrey

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by ColDayMan

Don't forget North America's most southern large city, Panama City: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Metro

And Monterrey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrorrey

Totally! North America is MORE than just Canada and the United States.

Monterrey:
• Video Link

Panama City:
• Video Link

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by Doady

What are the unnamed metro areas?