Even a great edge city can't support museums and concert halls?

[mhays]

Downtown Bellevue is the capital of the Seattle area's "favored third," the Eastside, and functions as the region's second downtown. Separated from Seattle by Lake Washington, Bellevue along with Redmond, Kirkland, Issaquah, et al are home to Microsoft, Amazon's HQ1b, T-Mobile, Costco Pokemon, Nintendo of America, Paccar (Kenworth/Peterbilt), and big chunk of Google and Meta. Downtown Bellevue is the region's top chain retail center, with good transit, good residential and office density, and even some tourism.

So why can't it support a concert hall or an art museum?

The Bellevue Arts Museum closed this week due to long-term financial problems. At 78,000 sf, designed by Steven Holl, and completed in 2001, it sits within feet of Bellevue's best retail. But it never gained financial independence. Along the way it changed from "art" to "arts" with a switch to crafts-type exhibits in an attempt to gain a following. It relied on temporary exhibits from the start, lacking its own collection, or the financial status to buy one.

The Performing Arts Center Eastside (PACE) has been a dream and a plan for decades. The idea is a performance hall that can house visiting local groups like the Seattle Symphony while also helping to showcase local groups. It's gotten donations and commitments, including some big ones, but has never gotten the hundreds of millions it would need. I suspect it'll continue to at a low boil until someone give it nine figures.

Some hurdles both face (some just my opinion):
--Eastsiders remain willing to travel to Seattle for museums and performances.
--Eastside donors (money, art) also favor Seattle groups.
--The City of Bellevue isn't giving large amounts to its arts groups.
--Bellevue doesn't have enough tourism. (But, lacking other museums, shouldn't BAM have gotten a good percentage of them?)
--Locals tend to go to the best local version of anything, and secondary institutions tend to suffer.
--Tech wealth is generally young or devoted to causes other than art, like Gates with world health.

Downtown Tacoma, meanwhile, has a thriving museum district. It's about 35 miles from Downtown Seattle however.

Are other edge cities more successful? How?

[Crawford]

My aunt is on some boards at the Segerstrom Center in Orange County (CA) and my sense is that complex is extremely successful. I believe they get a lot of big touring groups that skip the rival LA complex.

I've been to some shows and they always seem to have full turnouts. It's a monumental, very impressive complex. And it's in the middle of the craptastic, autohell South Coast Plaza edge city.

But maybe OC is a bit different in that it's a huge population center where the wealth is too far removed from LA and can't deal with the traffic times downtown anymore. In contrast, the rich residents east of Seattle can prolly still make it downtown for an evening show.

[Steely Dan]

Downtown Bellevue might just be too close in, at only 6 miles east of downtown Seattle.

Now, if it was 26 miles east.......

[mhays]

Downtown Bellevue is more like 12 miles from Downtown Seattle iirc by car or transit, and the two bridges both get jammed (one will have rail next year, buses on each are partially on bus lanes). The Eastside to Seattle is a commitment.

There's a silver lining for Seattle of course...its arts organizations have their own problems, including hangovers from Covid...maybe less for Bellevue means more for them?

Interesting about Orange County...maybe LA's size contributes to less willingness to head to DTLA.

Here's a story about BAM's closure btw. https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/...um-closes.html

[Steely Dan]

Madison/2nd to NE 4th/106th:

As the crow flies - 6.3 miles
Driving distance - 10.5 miles

Those lakes are quite the geographic barrier.

We don't have anything like that in Chicago.

Still, Bellevue might just be too close in.

[mhays]

Makes sense, thanks.

[plinko]

The Orange County Museum of Art (in the same complex as the Segerstrom) is also doing quite well and just underwent a huge expansion by Thom Mayne.

That entire complex always seems very busy.

Originally Posted by Crawford

My aunt is on some boards at the Segerstrom Center in Orange County (CA) and my sense is that complex is extremely successful. I believe they get a lot of big touring groups that skip the rival LA complex.

I've been to some shows and they always seem to have full turnouts. It's a monumental, very impressive complex. And it's in the middle of the craptastic, autohell South Coast Plaza edge city.

But maybe OC is a bit different in that it's a huge population center where the wealth is too far removed from LA and can't deal with the traffic times downtown anymore. In contrast, the rich residents east of Seattle can prolly still make it downtown for an evening show.

[pdxtex]

Probably because Bellevue is new money. Its upper class just got there. In general art museums of the west don't seem as large or well funded as east coast museums. Thats probably why it was called the gilded age.

[OhioGuy]

In the DC area, Tysons immediately comes to mind when asking about edge cities. I believe Capital One Hall in Tysons, VA, has been successful so far in its short lifespan.

Tysons Has a New Performing Arts Venue With a Sky Park


source

There are various other noteworthy performance arts venues outside DC, including: Round House Theatre in Bethesda, The Music Center at Strathmore in North Bethesda, and Signature Theatre in the Shirlington area of Arlington.

[aufbau]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

Probably because Bellevue is new money. Its upper class just got there. In general art museums of the west don't seem as large or well funded as east coast museums. Thats probably why it was called the gilded age.

I think there is something to that old money leaving outsized legacy institutions. I was in Muskegon, Michigan for work and was floored by their small, yet well curated museum. The docent even said they were expanding with much of the collection currently warehoused.

I imagine it's similar with a lot of other small midwest cities.

My jerkwater hometown in California is around the same size as Muskegon and isn't exactly poor but really has lousy culture offerings.

[mhays]

That's 1,600 seats in the main room in Tyson's...a large hall.

PACE is supposed to be along those lines, or a little bigger. Currently the Seattle area mostly uses high schools and smaller stages for suburban performances.

[pdxtex]

Originally Posted by aufbau

I think there is something to that old money leaving outsized legacy institutions. I was in Muskegon, Michigan for work and was floored by their small, yet well curated museum. The docent even said they were expanding with much of the collection currently warehoused.

I imagine it's similar with a lot of other small midwest cities.

My jerkwater hometown in California is around the same size as Muskegon and isn't exactly poor but really has lousy culture offerings.

Definitely. Look at the museums left over in large rust belt cities too. Detroit Institute of Art, Cleveland Art Museum, the Carnegie Museums in Pittsburgh. Even Toledo, Ohio museum is semi famous.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by OhioGuy

In the DC area, Tysons immediately comes to mind when asking about edge cities. I believe Capital One Hall in Tysons, VA, has been successful so far in its short lifespan.

Tysons Has a New Performing Arts Venue With a Sky Park


source

There are various other noteworthy performance arts venues outside DC, including: Round House Theatre in Bethesda, The Music Center at Strathmore in North Bethesda, and Signature Theatre in the Shirlington area of Arlington.

Wolf Trap in Vienna, VA, which is about 12 - 15 miles from downtown DC, is also a very successful concert venue.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by plinko

The Orange County Museum of Art (in the same complex as the Segerstrom) is also doing quite well and just underwent a huge expansion by Thom Mayne.

That entire complex always seems very busy.

That's not that surprising to me.
According to Wiki, Belleview has about 152,000 residents, which is small compared to both Seattle city at 750,000 and the metro at a little over 4 million. Plus it is a relatively new city, with most of its growth since 1960 (it only had about 12,000 in 1960), so I would consider it a relatively new city. I don't think many new cities quickly develop significant art and culture amenities, even if they become large quickly. Tacoma is a much older city, having more than 100,000 people even by 1930, so I am not surprised that it would have more arts and cultural infrastructure. I would guess that fast growing areas like Phoenix, Dallas and Houston, the same issue of edge cities not having much in cultural and arts infrastructure would be the same. And older legacy cities like Cleveland have a wealth of cultural and arts. Heck, Mesa AZ is bigger than Cleveland and St Louis, but I don't think it compares to those cities on a cultural and arts level.

[SIGSEGV]

University-affiliated art centers in edge cities seem to do well enough (e.g. block museum in Evanston, cantor arts center in Palo Alto), but I guess the university backing is a huge advantage.

[mhays]

It's a good point that Bellevue's population has a role. It impacts its tax base and therefore its ability to subsidize the arts. (It's the second downtown for the whole region however, particularly the half million on the Eastside.)

That said, just that 500,000 people, given their high incomes, means a big tax base collectively on the Eastside. Eastside cities have combined forces for good causes before, like homeless services. That could work for a concert hall if they wanted it to.

[sopas ej]

I would think the population and what they desire in entertainment and the arts would play a factor?

In Greater Los Angeles, many little suburbs have their own performing arts centers and civic auditoriums, I would think Bellevue would have the same.

I am not at all familar with the Seattle area and I've never been there, but looking it up online, Bellevue has something called the Meydenbauer Center. Doesn't that satisfy the arts and entertainment scene in Bellevue? I haven't yet looked at the programming or calendar, but is there enough of a performing arts scene there that would warrant the PACE center?

And in Greater LA, many college campuses, even community college campuses, have performing arts centers, with all kinds of different programming and entertainment. The Luckman Center at Cal State LA is pretty diverse, in fact my partner and I saw a Chaka Khan concert there earlier this year. And my own alma mater, Cal State Long Beach, has the Carpenter Performing Arts Center, where some years ago we saw Sandra Bernhard. But they do all kinds of concerts and performances as well, as well as Royce Hall at UCLA. UC Irvine even has the Barclay Theatre, where years ago my partner and I saw a Tibetan cultural dealy-o with Tibetan monks. Many college campuses in the LA area have pretty good art museums too.

Long Beach has the Terrace Theater which is part of their Convention Center complex, and they have all kinds of different events and concerts and performances there. Pasadena has the Pasadena Civic Auditorium and the renowned Pasadena Playhouse. So yeah, edge cities can have all kinds of performing arts centers and museums.

Could it be that the Seattle area does not have a big enough diverse population to support various performing arts centers and museums? Maybe the Seattle area is too core city-centric?

[mhays]

Seattle is very core-centric with the arts. Most big venues are either in greater Downtown or at the UW. Art/culture museums too.

Meydenbauer Center is a convention center, not for performing arts mostly, though it can serve in that role.

School districts sometimes work with local communities to build co-use theaters. That's fine for theater and various other events but doesn't draw full-size symphonies, operas, etc.

[hauntedheadnc]

Having been to the Bellevue Art Museum, it was pretty crummy... I visited with a friend from high school who lives out there now, and we walked around commenting on how much the works on display reminded us of the crap the art class at our high school was always churning out.

[jaxg8r1]

Beaverton, OR (close in suburb of Portland) just opened a performing arts center last year. https://thereser.org/about/building-the-reser/


This one is largely funded by lodging taxes and a significant gift ($13M) from the Reser family.