Has OC Transpo become unusable?

[lrt's friend]

My little escapade of using OC Transpo this morning really asks some serious questions about the usability of the service.

My trip was from the greater Hunt Club area to the Ottawa Civic Hospital. Normally, this should not be an arduous journey even with the Trillium Line shut down. The R2 bus service should provide an adequate replacement and I allowed extra time for the somewhat less direct route.

Despite minimal waiting time at home, the incoming trip took almost 1 hour.

The first problem arose at Carling and Preston. The R2 doesn't really stop there but two blocks north on Preston at Adeline. This did not facilitate an easy transfer. There was a stop immediately across the street but the 85 oddly does not stop there. The 55 and 56 required a walk all the way to the Carling rail stop, a good three block walk away.

This is something that I have observed lately, how bus stops at transfer points are located to facilitate traffic movement rather than passengers changing buses. In places, the walk is considerable and the Carling and Preston transfer illustrates this point.

My return trip was far worse. There were no buses on Carling, and I didn't even bother considering it. I just walked to Carling and Preston to realize that the first stop on Preston did not serve the R2. With nearby construction you could not see down the street and quickly realized that I was going to miss the R2 that was already at the hidden stop down Preston.

I waited perhaps a further 20 minutes. Finally the 85 showed up coming from the Civic, a gap of at least 30 minutes. The first R2 showed up that was not running the whole route. It was only going to Carleton. No doubt an extra because of the lack of schedule adherence on the R2.

Finally, the regular R2 showed up after another 5 minute wait. Despite allowing 50 minutes to get to Greenboro, there was no way, and with further congestion caused by all the construction at Carleton, the R2 was caught up in a bus convoy on campus.

It had taken 1 hour by the time I reached Greenboro, which blew away my hopes for a decent transfer to my local bus.

Instead of waiting another 20 to 25 minutes for the next local, I decided to walk the 2km back home and stop for a meal on the way.

By the time I walked in the door, the trip was 1 hour 40 minutes. I had only lost about 5 minutes compared to waiting for the local but I had time to eat a meal in the process.

The overall experience was terrible, and I will happily pay the parking fee the next time I go to the Civic.

During my trip, I also saw two double decker buses being towed, something I don't recall seeing before. I have also noticed the appeals to hire new drivers.

Are equipment failures and the lack of drivers further affecting the reliability of the service?

It seems to me that OC Transpo is gradually declining to American transit service levels, and only those who have no alternatives will be using it in the future. We have abandoned any desire to be even somewhat competitive with car travel and the concept of 'frequent service' is now a joke.

[phil235]

That is terrible, but in no way surprising. And Hubley's comment that we need to focus on moving people around suburbs leads me to believe that we can only expect service on major urban corridors to become worse.

[nalnal]

I've personally just given up on expecting timely service from the main route (the 6) I take because the times are so inaccurate. I now just walk along the bus route and periodically look behind me to see if a bus is coming, otherwise I just continue the walk.

I'm not sure if every city gets a similar proportion of complaints, but I've personally never encountered as much vitriol towards public transportation by a city's own residents than the OC Transpo.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by phil235

That is terrible, but in no way surprising. And Hubley's comment that we need to focus on moving people around suburbs leads me to believe that we can only expect service on major urban corridors to become worse.

The city has become bankrupt in its ideas for running transit.

They are simply scrambling as the system spirals downward almost in panic mode.

I recently watched one of Reece Martin's videos on how the TTC had cut the number of streetcars because the new fleet had bigger capacities. This meant worse frequencies. Now, the TTC is buying more streetcars to return frequencies to previous levels.

Ottawa has followed a course to bring in masses of big capacity buses and cut frequency over and over again. This is a fool's paradise, as frequency is needed to keep your customers happy. What I experienced this morning just drives away ridership.

The city needs to do a big re-think. We need a proper frequent service network that people can rely on that makes transfers work efficiently. The focus needs to be in the urban areas, but also should include key suburban routes, such as Baseline and Merivale and others.

There is a desperate need to regain rider confidence and this will not be achieved with token 'free' months.

OC Transpo needs to become a service organization.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by nalnal

I've personally just given up on expecting timely service from the main route (the 6) I take because the times are so inaccurate. I now just walk along the bus route and periodically look behind me to see if a bus is coming, otherwise I just continue the walk.

I'm not sure if every city gets a similar proportion of complaints, but I've personally never encountered as much vitriol towards public transportation by a city's own residents than the OC Transpo.

This is exactly what I was doing on Carling this morning. When it was the other side of Carling, I didn't even bother doing that. I just walked.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The city has become bankrupt in its ideas for running transit.

They are simply scrambling as the system spirals downward almost in panic mode.

I recently watched one of Reece Martin's videos on how the TTC had cut the number of streetcars because the new fleet had bigger capacities. This meant worse frequencies. Now, the TTC is buying more streetcars to return frequencies to previous levels.

Ottawa has followed a course to bring in masses of big capacity buses and cut frequency over and over again. This is a fool's paradise, as frequency is needed to keep your customers happy. What I experienced this morning just drives away ridership.

The city needs to do a big re-think. We need a proper frequent service network that people can rely on that makes transfers work efficiently. The focus needs to be in the urban areas, but also should include key suburban routes, such as Baseline and Merivale and others.

There is a desperate need to regain rider confidence and this will not be achieved with token 'free' months.

OC Transpo needs to become a service organization.

Agreed, and I also agree that we should concentrate on giving main routes like Baseline and Merivale frequent service. We should really only concentrate on that. Forget getting a bus within 500 m of every house every 45 minutes - get a bus all the way up and down those main corridors every 10-12 minutes, with a straight route to a rapid transit station.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by phil235

Agreed, and I also agree that we should concentrate on giving main routes like Baseline and Merivale frequent service. We should really only concentrate on that. Forget getting a bus within 500 m of every house every 45 minutes - get a bus all the way up and down those main corridors every 10-12 minutes, with a straight route to a rapid transit station.

The thing is that if you expect people to walk 2 km as I did this morning, transit ridership for those areas will be close to nil. You can run a bus/train every 2 minutes on the trunk route, but it won't matter.

If wipe out large of expanses of suburbia, your chances of growing ridership are also limited. This is the flaw of many American rail networks such as Dallas. Large rail networks but minimal feeder buses.

Not to be contrary to your opinion but the right balance needs to be found.

Brampton has provided a way to massively increase ridership in a mostly suburban city.

[Tesladom]

Originally Posted by phil235

Forget getting a bus within 500 m of every house every 45 minutes - get a bus all the way up and down those main corridors every 10-12 minutes, with a straight route to a rapid transit station.

Bang on!

I think the requirement is actually 400m?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

Bang on!

I think the requirement is actually 400m?

I think you are right. Which to me is more politics than common sense.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The thing is that if you expect people to walk 2 km as I did this morning, transit ridership for those areas will be close to nil. You can run a bus/train every 2 minutes on the trunk route, but it won't matter.

If wipe out large of expanses of suburbia, your chances of growing ridership are also limited. This is the flaw of many American rail networks such as Dallas. Large rail networks but minimal feeder buses.

Not to be contrary to your opinion but the right balance needs to be found.

Brampton has provided a way to massively increase ridership in a mostly suburban city.

Agreed, there has to be a balance. Would be interested to see what Brampton did - likely feeder buses into their Hwy 10 line?

I'm not saying that you would have no service on a street like Lorry Greenberg, but the focus should be on a frequent service grid, and buses shouldn't deviate off of those routes to wind through subdivisions. If you have good service on the main corridors, most people are going to be reasonably close to good transit. Your 2 km example would have to be a small minority of people.

[roger1818]

As soon as you said that neither your origin or destination were downtown (or near a station served by the Confederation Line), I knew you were in for a painful journey. The city has focused too much on getting people too and from downtown and not enough on other popular destinations (including other major employment nodes).

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by phil235

I think you are right. Which to me is more politics than common sense.



Agreed, there has to be a balance. Would be interested to see what Brampton did - likely feeder buses into their Hwy 10 line?

I'm not saying that you would have no service on a street like Lorry Greenberg, but the focus should be on a frequent service grid, and buses shouldn't deviate off of those routes to wind through subdivisions. If you have good service on the main corridors, most people are going to be reasonably close to good transit. Your 2 km example would have to be a small minority of people.

Brampton has developed its 'Zum' network of frequent bus routes to form a transit grid even into industrial parks with great success.

The Highway 10 route (Hurontario/Main) has been a major problem with flip flops by Brampton City Council over the LRT routing into downtown Brampton.

Brampton benefits from a well defined arterial road grid that is lacking in Ottawa because of odd geography with the various rivers and the complexity of survey areas.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

As soon as you said that neither your origin or destination were downtown (or near a station served by the Confederation Line), I knew you were in for a painful journey. The city has focused too much on getting people too and from downtown and not enough on other popular destinations (including other major employment nodes).

It should not have been a difficult trip, but even when the Trillium Line opens again, it is a pain dealing with the 12 minute schedule. If only they could get it to 10 minutes, it simplifies figuring out bus transfers.

I agree with you, that we have become way too focused on downtown, and our transit system is suffering as their bread and butter, the public servants continue to work from home. OC Transpo has been sitting on its laurels too long and not working harder to diversify its ridership.

[CanadaGoose]

Oh yes someone finally made a complaint thread.

Here we go:
1. Why are the STO bus connections so disjointed from OC Transpo? Why you making us walk 500 metres to the train, and then probably again to another transfer?

2. Why do all downtown bus routes terminate at different places, they should all share one stop where they all stop at? Parliament station, maybe?
Ex. Route 10 ends at Lyon.

3. Why is there no real legitimate capital improvement fund to help speed up OC Transpo buses? Buses should have real capital funding to develop traffic signals that put these buses first.

4. Why is OC Transpo not in charge of all transport related matters such as roads, bike lanes, park and rides, street parking design, traffic signals, etc?

5. When is Hubley or someone, going to propose a new route network design that is not focused on getting people downtown? At this rate, we don't even need the connexion series. Start merging it with the local routes and develop ways to speed them up.

6. Why are transit fares 3.65$ in Kanata to go to Ottawa? But 3.65$ to go from Rideau to Tunneys Pasture station?

7. When is the city going to start consulting and working with councillors to develop a new funding plan? OC Transpo funding needs are different for each community. Maybe, councillors should do consultations on minimum service requirements for their wards based on residents needs.

8. Why are they still relying on public servants to return?

9. Why is Lansdowne bus stop, one tiny shelter?

[DEWLine]

"We want OUR 'normal' back, dammit!"

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by CanadaGoose

Oh yes someone finally made a complaint thread.

Here we go:
1. Why are the STO bus connections so disjointed from OC Transpo? Why you making us walk 500 metres to the train, and then probably again to another transfer?

2. Why do all downtown bus routes terminate at different places, they should all share one stop where they all stop at? Parliament station, maybe?
Ex. Route 10 ends at Lyon.

3. Why is there no real legitimate capital improvement fund to help speed up OC Transpo buses? Buses should have real capital funding to develop traffic signals that put these buses first.

4. Why is OC Transpo not in charge of all transport related matters such as roads, bike lanes, park and rides, street parking design, traffic signals, etc?

5. When is Hubley or someone, going to propose a new route network design that is not focused on getting people downtown? At this rate, we don't even need the connexion series. Start merging it with the local routes and develop ways to speed them up.

6. Why are transit fares 3.65$ in Kanata to go to Ottawa? But 3.65$ to go from Rideau to Tunneys Pasture station?

7. When is the city going to start consulting and working with councillors to develop a new funding plan? OC Transpo funding needs are different for each community. Maybe, councillors should do consultations on minimum service requirements for their wards based on residents needs.

8. Why are they still relying on public servants to return?

9. Why is Lansdowne bus stop, one tiny shelter?

10. Why are OC Transpo buses, trains, and stations filthier than any other major city I've been to in Canada? Does OC Transpo own a single pressure washer?

11. Why can't OC Transpo put together one cohesive communications strategy (including the app, social media, LCD display messaging, and in-statin/train audio announcements) to at least properly inform passengers on why they are being delayed?

12. Why do some bus operators act like they are F1 drivers, tossing passengers around with erratic acceleration and braking, when I've never experienced that in Toronto or Vancouver?

13. Why do some operators, especially late at night, drive 2x the speed limit to get way ahead of schedule (subsequently screwing over passengers relying on said schedule) only to sit idle for 10 minutes at the next time point?

14. Why does bus service become a free-for-all whenever a detour is put in place? Especially a predictable detour, like the weekly Bank St. closures last summer.

15. Why is the NSAS feature inactive 30% of the time?

16. Why does OC Transpo seemingly use half of its budget to over-salt every inch of its property, only to neglect cleaning up said salt in the spring, leading to rapid decay of infrastructure?

17. Why are single-ride tickets dispensed by TVM's not tap-compatible like they are in Toronto? It's literally the same fare system and the same TVM manufacturer. Also, why are two-ride tickets not a thing here?

18. Why is the official OC Transpo app actual dog water?

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by CanadaGoose

4. Why is OC Transpo not in charge of all transport related matters such as roads, bike lanes, park and rides, street parking design, traffic signals, etc?

Good God no! OC Transpo is awful as-is so why should we give them more power.

[nalnal]

Out of curiosity, is there another city with a comparable population / comparable winter that relies as heavily on bus transportation as Ottawa? It's probably just my extreme dislike of the cold, but ever since I was young, I always thought the combination of our winter conditions + having to wait outdoors, often without a bus shelter was always a terrible combination.

[CanadaGoose]

Oh yes, from my old bus days:

If you’re making a detour from 11am to 4pm for a pride parade.

Don’t cancel the detour because the pride parade is cancelled due to rain. Just stick to the planned detour.

[CanadaGoose]

Oh and I forgot there is a workplace culture that treats its drivers like garbage for going above and beyond or making a tiny mistake such as missing a turn.

For a while, there were bus operators with no bathroom access.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by hwy418

Good God no! OC Transpo is awful as-is so why should we give them more power.

I believe TransLink in Greater Vancouver manages transportation related matters beyond just public transit. I could see it being beneficial from the perspective that one organization is responsible for balancing the needs of all users, in contrast to the current model in which transit priority measures are continually scrapped in favour of bike lanes (which are also important).