Taxis and ridesharing in Ottawa

[m0nkyman]

Taxis are an important part of our transit infrastructure.... so we should probably have a thread about them....

Here's a story to start things off with:

Taxi drivers angered by mayor's remarks

Jake Rupert
The Ottawa Citizen

Wednesday, February 13, 2008

Anger verging on violence erupted at city hall Wednesday after taxi drivers interpreted remarks from Mayor Larry O'Brien as disrespectful.

Just before council voted to maintain its requirement for all taxis to have security cameras installed by July 1, Mr. O'Brien said for him, the matter is primarily a question of public safety - and driver safety second.

This prompted outrage and shouts of "f--- you" as about 60 drivers filed out of council chambers before the vote was taken.

Union leader Yusef Al Mezel immediately called the remarks demeaning and insensitive and accused the mayor of treating cab drivers as "second-class citizens" during a heated moment outside council chambers, while several police officers looked on.

"This is too much," Mr. Al Mezel said. "We are hard-working taxpayers, and they are treating us like criminals."

Mr. Al Mezel and other union leaders said the camera decision, which will cost each car owner $1,500, will contribute to an expected strike in the spring. They say contract talks with Blue Line, the city's largest cab company, are going poorly, and the drivers are fed up with the company and the city's management of the industry.

After the vote, Mr. O'Brien said he didn't mean any disrespect. He said his meaning was that the cameras would protect the public and drivers equally and apologized for "any confusion" his comments may have caused.

But by that point, the drivers said, they were beyond apologies. They said they will not install the cameras, and if the city wants to try to punish them or take their licences, the city will have a fight on its hands.

Taxi drivers and company owners say the cost of the cameras is too much. They also say the city has left the door open for invading drivers' privacy by not guaranteeing any information collected by the cameras would only be used in criminal investigations.
© The Ottawa Citizen 2008


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[Aylmer]

It works in Manitoba...

[Cre47]

Euh... Scary Larry, it's obvious that it is zillion times more dangerous for taxi drivers then for passengers and that the camera is necessary for the driver's safety ... AT FIRST. 4 cabbies were robbed in one week possibly as a backlash over the camera issue.

I think that the cameras were made mandatory inside cabs not because of the security issues for drivers but because of that incident in Kanata in which someone was dragged on the 417. But it was one of the passengers that was acting erratically causing safety concerns for the driver which is why he drove away without knowing that one person was around too close and go clipped and pinned under the cab.

This comment by Scary Larry is as bad as the '''Pigeon Gate''' comment and another example of how most of the council are more pro-suburban classes and will little regards to the people of lower classes.

[NOWINYOW]

The service has been launched in Ottawa, according to a CTV article posted today.
http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/uber-offici...this-1.2033212

I'm curious to know what other people think of this new service. There is a lot at stake: Will revenue to The City of Ottawa be impacted? What measures will the city take to ensure drivers are licensed? Will Ottawa taxi companies take to protesting as has happened in other cities? Could reduced "ride sharing" lead to reductions in the use of public transit? I'm sure there are other issues I've not listed.

Speaking for myself only, I don't see this as a service I would use. While I can appreciate the desires of people to pay less for a service, I can also appreciate that the costs we pay now constitute some level of revenue to the city. If there is a reduction in fees paid to the city, what options does the city have to recoup that revenue?

Your thoughts?

[YOWflier]

My understanding is that the City welcomes companies like this, however they are subject to licensing just as any other taxi service is. To the best of my knowledge, these guys aren't yet licensed in this city, but have opted to begin operations anyway.

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

My understanding is that the City welcomes companies like this, however they are subject to licensing just as any other taxi service is. To the best of my knowledge, these guys aren't yet licensed in this city, but have opted to begin operations anyway.

This is roughly the situation. They actually are not technically doing anything against the rules as long as their freebee launch goes on (basically through this weekend)

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It's an interesting issue. On one hand the city's taxi system has created some good things for the city like accessible cabs for wheelchairs that a service like Uber is unlikely to create.

The problem with the city saying they need to be licensed is that the city has created deliberate system of scarcity around taxi plates, making it rather difficult for some sort of new service (or even just new taxi company) to start up in any size or scale.

The other problem is the city's taxi system uses a regulated price which makes it difficult for anyone to come in with a service that uses a different business model than the current taxi system.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

The problem with the city saying they need to be licensed is that the city has created deliberate system of scarcity around taxi plates, making it rather difficult for some sort of new service (or even just new taxi company) to start up in any size or scale.

Therein lies one big problem. While the city might state it welcomes a new service, that welcome mat applies only to companies that comply with city regulations. And those regulations include licensing. The license is dependent on using the fixed rate structure.

It's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[Kitchissippi]

I guess this is like the airbnb of taxis?

[EdFromOttawa]

This service is very prevalent in London UK where I spent the past year living.

Very cool service. Fast, efficient and best of all, very cheap. They make great use of technology too allowing you to track exactly where your car is on your phone and even sends you a picture of the driver so you know not to get into anything sketchy.

Safe and easy to use. I loved it. Hopefully it blows some smoke up all the current Ottawa taxi companies charging such ridiculous amounts...

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

Safe and easy to use. I loved it. Hopefully it blows some smoke up all the current Ottawa taxi companies charging such ridiculous amounts...

On the flip side, within those high taxi fares are significant fees paid to the city.

I guess we shouldn't complain about the city not being able to fund various programs. We should also then see some layoffs in the various city departments that manage the various licensing fees pertaining to taxis.

Nothing is free in life. If things are cheaper, it's usually at the expense of somebody else.

I'm not trying to start a flame war. I've no pony in this race. It's just an observation. Everyone has the right to do what they think is right.

Perhaps the city will reply by reducing spend on road infrastructure? Though I would think layoffs should be in order. Not because that is what I want to see, but rather if the work load is reduced, so too should the workforce managing that work.

[Uhuniau]

Ottawa's crap cab companies need to be deregulated to within an inch of their lives.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

On the flip side, within those high taxi fares are significant fees paid to the city.

How "significant" are they, in absolute terms, and in the context of a $2.5-billion budget?

[waterloowarrior]

If Ottawa decides that taxis aren't an area of commercial activity the government needs to regulate, or that regulations should be loosened than so be it. Maybe we should deregulate, other places have done so successfully. But there will always be consequences that should be considered. Just because a website makes something cheap and easy to access, doesn't make it legal. Personally I find the current system with $100,000 cab plates kind of bizarre.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

How "significant" are they, in absolute terms, and in the context of a $2.5-billion budget?

Significant enough, I'd say. Enough to employ unionized city employees.

As someone else stated, the cost of the license is $100,000/year.

Assuming 1000 current taxi drivers, that would equate to $100,000,000.00

Certainly not chump change.

Something else comes in to play too, which will be interesting. Right now, taxi drivers can travel across to Quebec to drop off a fare, but cannot pick up in Quebec. If UberX drivers start doing this, aren't there federal / provincial laws that come in to play?

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

As someone else stated, the cost of the license is $100,000/year.

I thought the licenses were about $100,000 to *buy* outright. I don't believe this is an annual fee to the city.... someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

I thought the licenses were about $100,000 to *buy* outright. I don't believe this is an annual fee to the city.... someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That's correct. That's the supposed going rate for resale. That's also the reason it is NUTS that the city insists of protecting the economic incumbents in this industry.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

Significant enough, I'd say. Enough to employ unionized city employees.

As someone else stated, the cost of the license is $100,000/year.

No. That's the resale market price for existing taxi plates. The city does NOT make $100-million a year from taxi licensing.

[Catenary]

I rode UberX today. This is my second time, I tried it in Washington DC this past summer.

I don't particularly like Uber as a company, but here in Ottawa they're the lesser of two evils. I don't mind a regulated taxi market so long as there is competition, but with Coventry Connections having basically locked up the entire market it's time for change. My ride today came with hand sanitizer and bottled water in the car.

Uber in many markets offers a variety of services. Licensed limos, Licensed limo SUVs, licensed limos with child seats, UberX, UberXL(suvs), UberX Family (child seats) and regular taxis charging metered rates through Uber are all available in Washington. In Philadelphia this week they launched accessible services. It's really nice to know when you have a group of 5 you can get a vehicle big enough to fit everyone in.

If anyone has any questions feel free to ask.

[acottawa]

Part of the problem is the city has never enforced very high standards on cabs in terms of cleanliness, air conditioning, dress code, age of the vehicle, smell, knowledge of the taxi driver of the road system, knowledge of the taxi driver of an official language, etc. At least with uber, presumably customer ratings of drivers would force these things.

I wonder though what the actual availability of drivers with uber would be. If someone is in Kanata on a Tuesday afternoon I wonder if an uber driver would be around.

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Part of the problem is the city has never enforced very high standards on cabs in terms of cleanliness, air conditioning, dress code, age of the vehicle, smell, knowledge of the taxi driver of the road system, knowledge of the taxi driver of an official language, etc. At least with uber, presumably customer ratings of drivers would force these things.

I wonder though what the actual availability of drivers with uber would be. If someone is in Kanata on a Tuesday afternoon I wonder if an uber driver would be around.

I know someone who tried last night in the market area around 10:30 and the app reported Uber as not available. I suspect this is less of real launch and more of a launch to force the legal issue and give the company an opportunity to fight the city regulations.


---------------------

That said my thoughts on the regulations and how to fix them.

The first question is whether Uber is a taxi. My answer to that is yes they are and therefore they should be subject to regulations. BUT our regulations need to work.


The first problem with Ottawa's taxis is that we have created an artificial scarcity by severely limiting plate sales. In Ottawa right now it would be very difficult to even start of a new traditional style taxi company never mind something like Uber.

The first change I would propose is that the city should have an annual auction to a decent number of new plates. Say somewhere between 25-50, with say 10% accessible plates. This would also raise money for the city.

This is why we have the quasi monopoly by Conventry Connections. A government should not have regulations that protect one company over all others.

The second issue is what we regulate. There are certain things like safety, employment standards, environment regulations, civic order etc that it makes good sense for government to regulate.

For taxis this includes things like the visible identifications of cabs by numbers and signs (also good advertising for the company), cameras in cabs, standards for the vehicles etc...

Ottawas taxi regulations extend far beyond what is needed in that they dictate the actual business model taxi companies use...right down to the pricing model and prices they charge (they can't even do things like offer discounts say during a slow time...or to compete with Uber). Worse than that the regulations only allow for a single business model. One way business differentiate themselves is with there model. Someone may want to start a taxi company that uses fare zones in stead of meters, or a flat rate model or a model based demand (busier time = high price), etc.. Right now they can't do that.

So the second change is only to regulate what is needed for safety and order and allow for evolution into new business models.