Sobey's downtown

[bornagainbiking]

I was in Toronto Tues. and saw one of those Sobey's Fresh or mini market. What a great idea for our downtown. We have many moving here and some essentials are lacking.
So I emailed Sobey's and expressed interest even though I live in the East end but enjoy the downtown.
Here is their response;


"Thank you for contacting Sobeys Customer Care and expressing interest in seeing one of our stores in your neighbourhood. Customer feedback is an integral part of our business and we welcome all suggestions from our customers.

Sobeys has been a part of many communities for over 100 years, and we continue to explore opportunities in all markets. Your request has been forwarded to our Real Estate Department for review.

Again we thank you for your interest and suggestion."

So maybe now is the time for downtown residents to lobby hard. Email away...

[emge]

i'll send one.. that's one thing i'd love to see.

though i don't think it would happen, the Metro brand would also likely be a successful format downtown.

[MattJelly]

I've thought the same thing, that downtown could use a supermarket for those of us who live in the core- since the Barn closed a few years ago, there hasn't really been any sort of 'supermarket' per se, in the megastore sense.

On the other hand, there are some options- while I definitely can't do all my grocery shopping in one stop, I'm able to find just about everything I need in and around the downtown core. Whatever you can't find at the Farmer's Market, you can find at Reardon's, Denninger's, the vegetable and fish markets on James North (and Adam's on James S.). I get that some people are just looking to zip in and out of one place that has everything they need, but part of me actually prefers finding it all in a few different places. It's also better to support the locals, I definitely wouldn't want to see a Sobey's move in and shut down Reardon's, or take any business away from the Farmer's Market. Y'know?

[ue]

Hammy should get one of these.

I've got to tell you coming from Edmonton (2nd city to get Urban sobeys) they are really a neighbourhood revitalizer. You'd be glad to have one. They usually go in neat areas and instead of the typical sobeys they have selection that caters to the community as well as all the regular stuff. As well as a bistro and wine bar - or here that is. They're an attractive place to have in a downtown.

[SteelTown]

Welcome to the forum Matt.

[astroblaster]

kresges building/ delta bingo = sobeys? i've always liked that idea

welcome matt jelly.

[astroblaster]

i dont think downtown currently has the population to support both sobeys and the market/indie stores.

so it comes back to raising the density and population of the core, especially the greyfields of beasley, and this won't happen unless we can stimulate economic development and lure young professionals to live and work in the core.

so its pretty simple; to get a sobeys, we just have to reverse a few decades worth of urban decay.

[matt602]

I think a downtown sobeys would work. Definitely.

[Millstone]

I really wish Loblaws would open a 24 hour something, everything I like grocery-store wise is usually a house brand of theirs like President's Choice

[FRM]

i agree with astroblaster in that the downtown core isn't big enough (popuation wise) to support a sobey's or something similar...i think if we had enough people one of these companies would already be scouting and planning to move in (correct me if i'm wrong if anyone knows if any of these chains are actually looking at the core). but i believe if we get some more aprtments and condos popping up they will come in right away.

[ue]

^what's dt hamiltons population?

edmonton's is 10,000 but we have 50-80,000 in nearby communities.

[vid]

Edmonton's downtown has only 10,000 people? Thunder Bay's two downtowns and their immediate peripheries have more than 12,500 people. Edmonton's downtown area should have at least 50,000 people.

[ue]

^Calgary is even worse like 5,000-7,000.

Anyhow, the Oliver district, just immidiately west of downtown is home to lots of highrise residential and is often considered apart of downtown like how it flows into dt. It has 20,000. The Northedge communities of Central McDougall and Queen Mary Park have what 30,000 together? Maybe 40? Then McCauley and Boyle have about 20,000. Maybe 30. So downtown and immidiate surroundings which make the bulk of the residential are 80,000.

Downtown Edmonton had high vacancies for towers of residential so there was a lot of filling in in the boom. It was 5,000 before. Now we're getting a lot of new construction but most are still going to Oliver because it has a higher population so more community amentities. I assume after all construction and filling up empty is all done about 12-15K.

[matt602]

Hamilton's downtown population is actually incredibly high because it's fairly dense. I don't have any numbers but I remember it being posted at some point.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by astroblaster

kresges building/ delta bingo = sobeys? i've always liked that idea

Delta Bingo is an example of the stakes of recession-era real estate and an unfortunate one, but given the scale of downtown Hamilton, an express supermarket in the heart of the CBD seems problematic. Judging by Google Maps, Sobeys has Toronto outlets at Roncesvalles, Bloor, Yonge and Front (two near the U of T campus -- we might have to wait on that sort of development) but little if anything inside what most people would consider the heart of that city's core.

A larger grocery store would be a better use of the space than a bingo hall, but not the ideal use of what should be a prize site. The building would be levelled by the next tenant anyway, so why not dream bigger? One way that makes sense to me is as a smaller facility on the ground level on a residential development. (Seems like a tall order, but they stock both chickens and eggs, so maybe we're covered.) Probably just as well to drop a store to the northeast, say at John and Wilson, where you're a block further from the Farmers Market and a block closer to the Barton FoodBasics. But as Astroblaster mentioned, demography might be something that a chain investor might factor in. Example: plot the Toronto Sobey's locations.

The Barn was downtown, yes, but its commitment was strongest during its years as an independent. A&P had different priorities.

[flar]

Downtown Hamilton has over 60,000 residents easily. The problem from the perspective of grocery and other stores is that a lot of them aren't big spenders.

Plus there are grocery store near the fringes of downtown, two on Main, and others on Dundurn and Barton.

[omro]

Hamilton has tons of these Hasty Marts selling ailses of naff all.

Tesco Metro, clean and full of fresh produce and decent products. Most with nutritional value!

But something with a similar format would be ideal for downtown as they aren't big stores.

[sofasurfer]

Originally Posted by MattJelly

It's also better to support the locals, I definitely wouldn't want to see a Sobey's move in and shut down Reardon's, or take any business away from the Farmer's Market. Y'know?

Which is exactly what Tescos and its ilk have been doing to lots of downtown areas in England... although that's more been to do with the rise of 'out of town' supermarkets that are more north American sized, and then killing off the high streets. But Tesco Metro (and competitors' equivalents) were the next line of attack.

BUT... at the same time, I can see some kind of value in downtown Hamilton having at least a couple of smaller Sobeys, Metro, or suchlike so that downtown is seen to be capable of attracting and sustaining these kinds of stores. Personally, I'd like to see a Fortinos (aren't they local? Or, at least, originate as a Hamilton operation?) but as someone else posted, I am a fan of PC stuff.

(@Omro, slightly OT... is it me, or does Fortinos seem like a more affordable Waitrose? )

[sofasurfer]

Originally Posted by flar

Downtown Hamilton has over 60,000 residents easily. The problem from the perspective of grocery and other stores is that a lot of them aren't big spenders.

What abour downtown workers? This is what the Tesco Metro brand is all about in the UK - serving these folk with (relatively higher-margin, faster-moving) convenience stuff for at-work lunches and things to take home for a quick dinner... plus a pared-down line of products across the board, actually not to different to variety stores but with familiar branding.

Of course, retail culture here might be quite different. Although I'm sure I recall Tesco entering the US market in the last couple of years. Can't remember details, but it was totally new branding, not sure if they were going to follow the same biz model of out of town stores AND urban downtown convenience locations.

Even so, lots of brownfield sites downtown, a canny retailer could put a larger size store in one of those (maybe even parking if the site's already got it?) - I'm not convinced this is something that'll happen in the immediate term, but I could see this happening in the future.

[ue]

Originally Posted by flar

Downtown Hamilton has over 60,000 residents easily. The problem from the perspective of grocery and other stores is that a lot of them aren't big spenders.

Plus there are grocery store near the fringes of downtown, two on Main, and others on Dundurn and Barton.

Is that downtown proper? Is your dt core large in area? Ours is smaller, but like I said, some neighbourhoods could easily double as extensions of downtown here I'd say.