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  #1  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2015, 8:39 PM
GreatTallNorth2 GreatTallNorth2 is offline
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195 Dundas Street - 25s (Complete) | 35s, 32s (Approved)



It's probably about time we had this project under it's own thread. The project looks decent to me, will be interested to see the height.

Project is proposed by Ayerswood Development Corp. More details: https://www.london.ca/business/Plann...-Sept-2015.pdf
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  #2  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2015, 5:17 PM
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I for one, love this project. It's the right sort of infill that I think everyone can agree is good for the city. That plot of land has been just sitting there waiting for this thing. And if the developer holds true the to the ideas shown in the rendering, it would actually be quite beautiful. Now if only they actually build it. We have seen a lot of proposals in the past 2 years...
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  #3  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2015, 3:03 AM
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Woot woot, but what is the probability of fruition? 10? 25? 50?
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  #4  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2015, 3:24 PM
Rosso Corsa Rosso Corsa is offline
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best proposal on the chopping block so far.

698 dwelling units + office space but only 614 parking spots - someone explain?
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  #5  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2015, 10:46 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
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I don't like it.
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  #6  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2015, 4:48 PM
HillStreetBlues HillStreetBlues is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso Corsa View Post
best proposal on the chopping block so far.

698 dwelling units + office space but only 614 parking spots - someone explain?
It's a downtown, so with transit and other forms of transportation, not every unit needs a spot.

It's London's downtown, so office workers have plenty of parking options nearby...

They'll need to apply for a variance to have the parking requirements relaxed, I assume.
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  #7  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2015, 5:29 PM
Rosso Corsa Rosso Corsa is offline
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I don't like it.
Visually or economically?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues View Post
It's a downtown, so with transit and other forms of transportation, not every unit needs a spot.

It's London's downtown, so office workers have plenty of parking options nearby...

They'll need to apply for a variance to have the parking requirements relaxed, I assume.
I thought the major apartments downtown all guaranteed 1 spot per unit, 2 for penthouse, etc. Interesting.
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  #8  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2015, 5:47 PM
HillStreetBlues HillStreetBlues is offline
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Originally Posted by Rosso Corsa View Post
I thought the major apartments downtown all guaranteed 1 spot per unit, 2 for penthouse, etc. Interesting.
Is that true? It's easy to imagine that, out of 698 apartment units, 80 might not want a parking spot. And, if it's required for every unit, car-free households in the building will of course be subsidizing those with cars.
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  #9  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2016, 1:11 AM
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Update on 195 Dundas St in downtown London my instincts tell me lot more is going on was quoted in the CTV report. $300 million plus project just put on hold by developer over concerns about future transit station considering both parties benefit from both projects.

http://london.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=803321


http://www.lfpress.com/2016/02/05/30...roject-on-hold

Last edited by Dither City; Feb 6, 2016 at 1:56 AM.
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  #10  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2016, 1:27 AM
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Major, major bungle on the part of senior staff and the political cadre.
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  #11  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2016, 2:45 AM
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I said earlier that part of the RT plan doesn't make sense. King St, which is one-way, would have 2 directions of RT in the proposed plan.

Why not separate the RT downtown onto separate streets, so eastbound traffic on King St, and westbound goes on Queens Ave!? That fact that a $300 million private development could be scrapped over this screw-up ridiculous..
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  #12  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2016, 4:58 AM
GreatTallNorth2 GreatTallNorth2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dither City View Post
my instincts tell me lot more is going on was quoted in the CTV report. $300 million plus project just put on hold by developer over concerns about future transit station considering both parties benefit from both projects.
My instincts tell me that too. It's pretty much a dream to have rapid transit on the street where you own a key block in the city core. Ok maybe some things have to be sorted out, but I am not sure I trust this guy. He is the same guy that built on Reservoir Hill and I thought he had some financial issues before that made him a bit sketchy. Lets be honest, his plans for the block looked like they were out of an old Sim City game. I want to be wrong, but something isn't right here. Don't blame the city for wanting to build a great transit system.
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  #13  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2016, 5:50 PM
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Don't blame the city for wanting to build a great transit system.
It has nothing to do with this particular issue being a requirement for a great transit system. If the plan for this rapid transit is so inflexible as to live or die dependent the location of a RT station being at precisely this location, then it's NOT a great transit system from the start.

The real issue is that the city will not give the developer assurances that they won't grab a portion of his land for a road widening to construct a transit station at that particular location. When the notional RT route was devised, they considered a station there along with the road widening required for it because it was/is a vacant lot at a major intersection, so in the eyes of the RT planners the required land at this desirable location is available by taking it from the owner as part of a future development agreement. Now that there is a developer, he is now saying that if he looses that much land to a road widening he does not have the space required for the building footprint needed to support the density that his business model requires to make his proposal financially viable.

The messages it sends are many fold:

1) The fact that the issue has seeped out into the public shows that it's still amateur hour in some places at city hall. If there are adults in the room, matters such as this don't see the light of day and get concluded behind closed doors.

2) It sends a message of an inability at city hall to think out of the box in order to solve problems. This represents a disincentive for the business community to invest in the future. Investors will not tolerate that any more and will instead move on with their money to a more progressive community.

3) It sends a message to all land owners along the proposed RT route that their lands may be undevelopable for many years

4) Most importantly it places the city's largest ever megaproject (rapid transit) on a downward trajectory in terms of public buy-in from almost the get-go. Any RT project in the city will have to sell itself, and sell itself hard in order to garner critical widespread public support. Projects such as RT in cities this size are a very tough sell to the public and local media due the extreme cost and marginal economic viability of such a system in a relatively small population base. Here now exists a situation where not even the EA for the RT is complete and the the potential now exists for the screamer headline: "$300M Downtown Project Killed By Rapid Transit". Projects such this proposed RT get clobbered in the court of public opinion and the media due to the mishandling of issues such as this and frequently never recover. If the winds of public opinion blow hard enough the wrong way against RT, it will become an election issue next time and people will run for council promising to kill the project.

Then what remains? No downtown development, and no rapid transit system.

For all of these reasons, this matter needs resolution quickly and quietly.
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  #14  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2016, 4:07 AM
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^I largely agree but,

LRT>>>>>some project.
Bus rapid transit is bus. Rail is rapid transit. The former is incremental. The latter, game-changer.

of course the Freeps just needs to sell papers to the chronically uninformed.

You aren't really a big Canadian city without rail rapid transit.

Any towers that get cancelled increase the chances that others mooted will get built.
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  #15  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2016, 9:02 PM
GreatTallNorth2 GreatTallNorth2 is offline
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Sorry, but I disagree Snark. I am glad that we have a planning department and elected politicians that are on the same page. As far as flexibility, our city has a history of being far too flexible with developers and thus screwing the taxpayer, allowing endless sprawl, etc.

We are planning the biggest investment in our city's history and they want to do it "right". It will matter where stations go so. If this developer feels too much land is going to be taken (which btw the city has every right to expropriate the land for a project like this), then I am sure the city will be kind to the developer when it comes to density and height allowing more density to compensate. The idea that the developer thinks he has a right to do what he wants is crazy.

If I was a land owner, I would be patient and pray that RT goes through as the land they own will go way up in price and it will be more desirable to live close to RT. Sorry, I'm not shedding one tear for these developers. They will not move on to another community - I don't believe a word they say. They go where they can make a buck. I don't blame them for that, but a lot of them need an attitude adjustment. They aren't God's gift to the city.
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  #16  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 7:08 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
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I'm glad they cancelled this project, I never liked it.
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  #17  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 11:50 PM
Rosso Corsa Rosso Corsa is offline
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Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2 View Post
then I am sure the city will be kind to the developer when it comes to density and height allowing more density to compensate.
If they reconcile their differences this may be the catalyst needed to see a bump in height restrictions. Projects of this scale will inevitably face challenges... in my books the sign of a good developer who wants improve downtown (and not just their bank account) is flexibility and compromise in the face of adversity. Curious to see how this pans out.
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  #18  
Old Posted May 10, 2016, 4:05 PM
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Update on $300 hundred million 195 Dundas St, Clarence & King St with typical London shenanigans. I'm all for hybrid LRT/BRT (Shift) rapid transit project its absolute necessity. Having said that why has this glitch come up just before construction was about proceed.

http://www.lfpress.com/2016/05/09/tr...wn-development

Little bit more information.

http://london.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=866999

Last edited by Dither City; May 10, 2016 at 9:41 PM.
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  #19  
Old Posted May 10, 2016, 5:16 PM
GreatTallNorth2 GreatTallNorth2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dither City View Post
Update on $300 hundred million 195 Dundas St, Clarence & King St with typical London shenanigans. I'm all for hybrid LRT/BRT (Shift) rapid transit project its absolute necessity. Having said that why has this glitch come up just before construction was about proceed.

http://www.lfpress.com/2016/05/09/tr...wn-development
This developer is full of it. He is the guy that built that tower in Byron that was heavily protested and if you do a google search of him, he isn't as legit as he says he is. I don't know how he will afford to build a $300 million project. I don't blame transit at all. Besides, having transit close by will make the property much more valuable.
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  #20  
Old Posted May 11, 2016, 3:03 AM
Stevo26 Stevo26 is offline
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Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2 View Post
This developer is full of it. He is the guy that built that tower in Byron that was heavily protested and if you do a google search of him, he isn't as legit as he says he is. I don't know how he will afford to build a $300 million project. I don't blame transit at all. Besides, having transit close by will make the property much more valuable.
The city should be careful here. Even if the developer is shady as all get out, he has plunked down some serious cash to start the development process. If the city delays the project to accommodate the transit hub, he could well ask for his money back and decide to kill the project, which would not be a good thing for the downtown core.

It strikes me as odd that the city would approve the project and then turn around and change the setback and other details for the sake of the transit hub. Sounds like a case of poor coordination on the part of planning officials, almost a classic 'right hand doesn't know what the left is doing' situation.
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