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  #1  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2022, 9:14 PM
MAC123 MAC123 is offline
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The Suburbs are Bleeding America Dry | Climate Town (Feat. Not just Bikes)

The Suburbs are Bleeding America Dry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfsCniN7Nsc&t=21s
I don't know how to expand the youtube video, sorry about that.
From Climate Town (feat. Not just Bikes)
Post Date 2/7/2022.

It seems the links don't want to work, unfortunately. I won't be removing them as you can search the link on you own and find a working entrance.
I don't know if there is something this would already fit into but I feel it could be a great discussion on its own.

Description stuff.
We’ve got to rethink housing, brotherrr! Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ClimateTown
sUbScRiBe FoR mOrE ViDeOs: https://www.youtube.com/c/climatetown...

Check out the Not Just Bikes version right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO6tx...

CHANNELS THAT ARE BOTH GREAT AND RELEVANT :
Not Just Bikes - https://www.youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes
City Beautiful - https://www.youtube.com/c/CityBeautiful


ZONING STUFF YOU CAN DO
1) Join the Climate Town Discord. Since there’s not a great/ accessible database of everyone’s local zoning meetings (as far as we could find), we think it would be pretty slick to harness our community’s collective power to make it easier to get this information. We just created a channel called “#zoning” (https://discord.gg/cqRpTpeAH2), where you can drop by and tell us how your local zoning meeting smelled, or share a link that we missed to help other Climate Townies affect change in their community. (And in case you’re like me from a month ago and have no idea how to use Discord, here’s a helpful lil’ beginner’s guide - https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/... to-Discord)

2) Sign up for Public Comment Workshop from YIMBY Action - Feb 15, 2022 5pm Pacific: https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/regis...

3) City Specific Zoning or Board Meeting Links:
Los Angeles: https://planning.lacity.org/about/com...
New York City: https://www1.nyc.gov/site/cau/communi... boards.page
Chicago: https://www.thecha.org/about/board-me... resolutions/board-information-and-meetings
4) Don’t see your city? They’re often hyper-local, a little hard to find, and go by different names. Search your ‘zip/town/city’ and these search terms:

Community Board Meeting
City Planning Board Meeting
City Planning Commission
Zoning Committee Meeting
Community Engagement Meeting
Public Consultation (Canada)
YIMBY (Yes, In My Back Yard) Housing Reform Groups
Density Advocacy

5) Join or donate to a zoning-focused organization:
https://yimbyaction.org/2021/
https://smartgrowthamerica.org/
https://www.strongtowns.org/
https://cayimby.org/ (California)
https://abundanthousingla.org/ (Los Angeles)
https://carlaef.org/ (California)
https://www.opennewyork.city/ (NYC)
https://www.downtowndenver.com/experi... (Denver)
https://www.seattleforgrowth.org/ (Seattle) https://actionnetwork.org/groups/neig... (Atlanta) https://www.orlandoyimby.org/ (Orlando)
https://www.desegregatect.org/ (Connecticut)
https://yimbyalliance.org/ (UK)

Articles Galore

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2...
https://www.theamericanconservative.c...
https://liherald.com/stories/hochul-e...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl... reveals-the-mysteries-of-zoning

https://www.theolympian.com/news/stat...
https://mass.streetsblog.org/2022/01/...


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2...
https://www.theamericanconservative.c...
https://liherald.com/stories/hochul-e...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl... reveals-the-mysteries-of-zoning

https://www.theolympian.com/news/stat...
https://mass.streetsblog.org/2022/01/...
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NYC - 20 Supertalls (including UC)
NYC - Future 2035 supertalls - 45 + not including anything that gets newly proposed between now and then (which will likely put it over 50)

Last edited by MAC123; Feb 8, 2022 at 4:19 AM.
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  #2  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 12:32 AM
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He makes good videos though i wish he'd lay off all the sarcastic pop and net culture filler and just make a serious presentation. Do the stand up comedy in another channel.
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  #3  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 1:14 AM
MAC123 MAC123 is offline
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
He makes good videos though i wish he'd lay off all the sarcastic pop and net culture filler and just make a serious presentation. Do the stand up comedy in another channel.
Nah I love that about his channel.
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NYC - Future 2035 supertalls - 45 + not including anything that gets newly proposed between now and then (which will likely put it over 50)
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Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 1:18 AM
mhays mhays is offline
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Keep the jokes and tone but delete the professional wrestler.

It's good stuff really.
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  #5  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 1:29 AM
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That's fair.
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  #6  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 3:07 AM
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love both of these channels. haven't seen this one yet.
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Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 3:55 AM
Manitopiaaa Manitopiaaa is offline
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And yet these are the same people who refuse to acknowledge the crime/homeless/mismanagement issues that make inner cities undesirable. He even equates suburban living with racism, as if black/brown people are leaving Chicago to move to the suburbs because they're racist. Really?

I would love to live in Washington, D.C. (and, in fact, did once). But I'm not going to leave Northern Virginia (safer than Western Europe by homicide rate) to live in Washington DC (murder rate that cracks the Top 50 cities worldwide), just to reduce my CO2 emissions.

Also, almost all of your links don't work.
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Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 4:03 AM
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Do you really think you’re in actual danger of being murdered in Washington DC?

Like if you moved to a comparable neighborhood in DC vs. one in northern VA, your chances of becoming a homicide victim skyrocket or something?

Maybe lay off the statistics for a bit, man.
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Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 4:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
as if black/brown people are leaving Chicago to move to the suburbs because they're racist.
Black people (-85K) are leaving Chicago, but Asians and Latinos were the two largest growing macro-demos in the city from 2010 - 2020, growing +45K and +41K respectively, and together they completely canceled out chicago's black flight for the decade.
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Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 4:10 AM
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ABut I'm not going to leave Northern Virginia (safer than Western Europe by homicide rate) to live in Washington DC (murder rate that cracks the Top 50 cities worldwide), just to reduce my CO2 emissions.
Is that your biggest fear? Getting murdered? That alone determines where you live?
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Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 4:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
And yet these are the same people who refuse to acknowledge the crime/homeless/mismanagement issues that make inner cities undesirable. He even equates suburban living with racism, as if black/brown people are leaving Chicago to move to the suburbs because they're racist. Really?

I would love to live in Washington, D.C. (and, in fact, did once). But I'm not going to leave Northern Virginia (safer than Western Europe by homicide rate) to live in Washington DC (murder rate that cracks the Top 50 cities worldwide), just to reduce my CO2 emissions.

Also, almost all of your links don't work.
"acknowledge the crime/homeless/mismanagement issues that make inner cities undesirable"
Crime - A variety of things here. Crime is often a result of poverty, which can be reduced by making things less expensive and making jobs easier to get to. This does both. But crime is a very complex thing and can't be fixed by any single silver bullet.
Homelessness - This especially can be helped with this. It's real simple. More (better, mixed use) places to live = lower prices for those places as they have far more competition. Lower prices = less homelessness. ^Same thing with crime though, no one single silver bullet.
Mismanagement issues - Could you be more vague please?
"He even equates suburban living with racism, as if black/brown people are leaving Chicago to move to the suburbs because they're racist. Really?"
No he doesn't. You pulled that out of your ass. He said that the people who made the laws (the ones that make areas exclusively SFH's. And the ones that prevented colored people from buying houses in the suburbs) were racist, which they were. He explained this pretty well, I don't have the faintest clue how you got that mixed up unless you specifically wanted it to be mixed up..
Dude statistics are very easy to twist. And just because you have a low or lower chance of something happening to you, doesn't mean it can't happen to you.
"Also, almost all of your links don't work" Dang it. Ughhhhhhhhhh. That's so annoying. I'll leave them up just so people can look them up themselves.
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NYC - 20 Supertalls (including UC)
NYC - Future 2035 supertalls - 45 + not including anything that gets newly proposed between now and then (which will likely put it over 50)

Last edited by MAC123; Feb 8, 2022 at 4:30 AM.
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  #12  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 4:16 AM
Manitopiaaa Manitopiaaa is offline
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Is that your biggest fear? Getting murdered? That alone determines where you live?
Yes of course, beyond water and air, most humans would place personal safety at the foundation of what they look for in a city. And there's nothing wrong with that. See Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs:

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  #13  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 4:38 AM
Manitopiaaa Manitopiaaa is offline
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Originally Posted by MAC123 View Post
"acknowledge the crime/homeless/mismanagement issues that make inner cities undesirable"
Crime - A variety of things here. Crime is often a result of poverty, which can be reduced by making things less expensive and making jobs easier to get to. This does both. But crime is a very complex thing and can't be fixed by any single silver bullet.
Homelessness - This especially can be helped with this. It's real simple. More (better, mixed use) places to live = lower prices for those places as they have far more competition. Lower prices = less homelessness. ^Same thing with crime though, no one single silver bullet.
Mismanagement issues - Could you be more vague please?
"He even equates suburban living with racism, as if black/brown people are leaving Chicago to move to the suburbs because they're racist. Really?"
No he doesn't. You pulled that out of your ass. He said that the people who made the laws (the ones that make areas exclusively SFH's. And the ones that prevented colored people from buying houses in the suburbs) were racist, which they were. He explained this pretty well, I don't have the faintest clue how you got that mixed up unless you specifically wanted it to be mixed up..
Dude statistics are very easy to twist. And just because you have a low or lower chance of something happening to you, doesn't mean it can't happen to you.
"Also, almost all of your links don't work" Dang it. Ughhhhhhhhhh. That's so annoying.
Crime is often a result of poverty, but that doesn't excuse ignoring it. It actually causes it worsen. Crime goes up > those with $$$ leave the city > the city council now has less to spend on policing in social programs/policing/welfare > crime goes up > more of those with $$$ leave the city > the city council now has even less to spend on policing in social programs/policing/welfare > crime goes up, etc. Rinse and repeat. I thought we'd all learned after the 1970s death spiral that letting crime to fester will destroy the city.

Homelessness is not simply a housing issue. In fact, it's not even primarily a housing issue. It's largely a mental illness + drug addiction issue. As long as the city continues talking about it as if all of the homeless just magically got evicted when rents topped $2,000, it tells me just how serious they are about the problem.

Mismanagement = the high taxes relative to public services, the fact you're paying for parks you often can't use because they've been 'claimed' by the homeless, the fact that mass transit is so bad I'd rather walk 20 minutes than enter the metro just to wait 20 minutes anyway, the crumbling schools even though housing prices are $750k on average, the fact that poverty never seems to decline even as the city shoves millions and millions into non-profits who seem to just pilfer it all and come back next year. I'm sure people would be more willing to contribute to the city if the funds were properly used.

As for zoning, his logic is easy-to-follow: those who made SFH home laws (in the 50s/60s, etc.) were racist. Yet those laws still exist across much of suburbia. The implication is that suburbs that don't remove those restrictions are perpetuating systemic racism and culpable themselves. It's not a radical argument, it's a common argument made these days: https://www.vox.com/22252625/america...les-how-to-fix

I tend to agree with this person: ""Calling my neighbors who are all wealthy, white homeowners racist is not helpful because as soon as you call a white person racist they kind of shut down and don’t really engage anymore,” he said. It will also “generally incite a quiet backlash at the ballot box,” which harms the effort to eradicate exclusionary zoning."

Suburban living is not my preference. But I can see why people would choose it. Instead of asking why people would live in such a morally-bankrupt suburban hellscape, the question should be: why can't our cities become as desirable as those in Europe or Asia, where urban living is in high demand?

Last edited by Manitopiaaa; Feb 8, 2022 at 5:23 AM.
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  #14  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 4:52 AM
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Do you really think you’re in actual danger of being murdered in Washington DC?

Like if you moved to a comparable neighborhood in DC vs. one in northern VA, your chances of becoming a homicide victim skyrocket or something?

Maybe lay off the statistics for a bit, man.
Picking where you live is like picking a company to invest in. There are parts of Baltimore that are extremely nice (Federal Hill, Fell's Point, Charles Village), but I'd never live there because you're not just buying into a neighborhood but a city. And moving to Baltimore - even the nicer parts - likely means I'll be on the hook for higher property taxes as the hollowing out in other parts of the city continues.

I would invest in Metaverse, but as long as it's bundled with Facebook's social media, I'm not touching it, since the latter will continue to be a drag on the former (my brother who didn't listen learned a hard lesson this week given their $275 billion market cap plunge)

So yes, I'd much rather live in Arlington without the extra baggage, than in DC where City Council is spending inordinate amounts of time putting out fires in the most dangerous neighborhoods. This isn't just me talking. Municipal boundaries are very important. Just look at the 'premium' you pay for living in Montgomery County versus Prince George's County. Takoma Park and Chillum are side-by-side, yet the former will fetch $705,000 for the average home while Chillum is $418,000.

Buying into a well-run jurisdiction is a huge premium. Even here in Northern Virginia, where Loudoun County is now more expensive than Fairfax County, even though the commutes are >60 minutes. Why? Because buying into Loudoun gets you a County that is swimming in data center money (nearly 3x the budget of my own County of Prince William, even though it has less people).

It's not just about the risk of getting murdered (though safety is definitely #1), but about what you get in toto.
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  #15  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 5:59 AM
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He even equates suburban living with racism, as if black/brown people are leaving Chicago to move to the suburbs because they're racist. Really?
You misheard. He said exclusionary housing policies were partially due to racism.
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Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 1:38 PM
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Yes of course, beyond water and air, most humans would place personal safety at the foundation of what they look for in a city. And there's nothing wrong with that. See Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs:
I guess my next question is, do you have an irrational fear of being murdered, and do you own a gun?

I've known people who grew up in bad/gang-infested neighborhoods, and some have admitted to me that they used to fear getting murdered, but they outgrew it once they left that neighborhood. It's almost like a form of PTSD. But then I also knew people who grew up in gang-infested neighborhoods who didn't have a fear of getting killed. I can understand maybe a person who grew-up or lived in gang territory, and of course a war-torn country or something, to have a fear/irrational fear of getting killed... did you experience something like that when you were younger?

The only time I feared being killed was the summer of 1985, when that infamous LA serial killer, Richard Ramirez (AKA The Nighstalker) was on the loose. I was 15 at the time, and genuinely scared of noises or shadows very late at night. That guy literally terrorized southern California, and I remember my neighbors leaving the exterior lights of their house on all night, and even stray cats would throw shadows on my bedroom window and it would freak me out. My mom, who was a nurse (retired now), worked the swing shift and would come home after midnight; she got into the habit of pulling into the garage and then immediately hitting the remote for the garage door opener, and then waiting for the door to be fully closed and making sure nobody was in the garage, before getting out of the car. After the serial killer was caught, I didn't have that fear anymore.

All that being said, it's making me wonder if you grew up in a bad neighborhood and have an irrational fear of being murdered.
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Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 2:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
And yet these are the same people who refuse to acknowledge the crime/homeless/mismanagement issues that make inner cities undesirable. He even equates suburban living with racism, as if black/brown people are leaving Chicago to move to the suburbs because they're racist. Really?

I would love to live in Washington, D.C. (and, in fact, did once). But I'm not going to leave Northern Virginia (safer than Western Europe by homicide rate) to live in Washington DC (murder rate that cracks the Top 50 cities worldwide), just to reduce my CO2 emissions.

Also, almost all of your links don't work.
Why are you even here?
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Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 2:25 PM
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Picking where you live is like picking a company to invest in. There are parts of Baltimore that are extremely nice (Federal Hill, Fell's Point, Charles Village), but I'd never live there because you're not just buying into a neighborhood but a city. And moving to Baltimore - even the nicer parts - likely means I'll be on the hook for higher property taxes as the hollowing out in other parts of the city continues.

I would invest in Metaverse, but as long as it's bundled with Facebook's social media, I'm not touching it, since the latter will continue to be a drag on the former (my brother who didn't listen learned a hard lesson this week given their $275 billion market cap plunge)

So yes, I'd much rather live in Arlington without the extra baggage, than in DC where City Council is spending inordinate amounts of time putting out fires in the most dangerous neighborhoods. This isn't just me talking. Municipal boundaries are very important. Just look at the 'premium' you pay for living in Montgomery County versus Prince George's County. Takoma Park and Chillum are side-by-side, yet the former will fetch $705,000 for the average home while Chillum is $418,000.

Buying into a well-run jurisdiction is a huge premium. Even here in Northern Virginia, where Loudoun County is now more expensive than Fairfax County, even though the commutes are >60 minutes. Why? Because buying into Loudoun gets you a County that is swimming in data center money (nearly 3x the budget of my own County of Prince William, even though it has less people).

It's not just about the risk of getting murdered (though safety is definitely #1), but about what you get in toto.
That's all fine and good... just seemed like you were pretty focused on the homicide aspect.
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Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 6:26 PM
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Suburban living is not my preference. But I can see why people would choose it. Instead of asking why people would live in such a morally-bankrupt suburban hellscape, the question should be: why can't our cities become as desirable as those in Europe or Asia, where urban living is in high demand?
They "choose" it because it's the status quo. Because all facets of suburban living are heavily subsidized by our governments and our financial institutions. Because it's the only thing typically available due to a rigged system.

You already know the answer to the question. The US will look like a normal country the day it gets over it's failed suburban experiment fetish and rolls back all it's backwards policies. So far there's no indication of that happening any time soon. And yes racism has always played a giant role in this, it's the central reason suburbia was conceived in the first place. That is undeniable.
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Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 6:33 PM
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They "choose" it because it's the status quo. Because all facets of suburban living are heavily subsidized by our governments and our financial institutions. Because it's the only thing typically available due to a rigged system.

You already know the answer to the question. The US will look like a normal country the day it gets over it's failed suburban experiment fetish and rolls back all it's backwards policies. So far there's no indication of that happening any time soon. And yes racism has always played a giant role in this, it's the central reason suburbia was conceived in the first place. That is undeniable.
Classism too. NYC's Central Park was originally meant for wealthy people after all, if you wanna go further back than postwar suburbia. When it was created, there was nothing "central" about it.
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