General Infrastructure Discussion

[Migrant_Coconut]

Vancouver also has centralized heating networks for high-density neighbourhoods, which Victoria or Abbotsford could emulate once population growth warrants such a build.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Vancouver also has centralized heating networks for high-density neighbourhoods, which Victoria or Abbotsford could emulate once population growth warrants such a build.

For what it's worth, they're all using natural gas boilers (even the Olympic Village NEU uses natural gas boilers when they need additional output). According to their fact sheet the heat pump system for Olympic Village still only covers 70% of the heating - natural gas makes up the rest.

I'm not personally aware of any district heating in the world that is fully heat pump based.

I take it back, there is a recent one installed in Norway (which should be pretty similar to here, right?)

[Migrant_Coconut]

IIRC it doesn't have to be natural gas either - biomass and sewer heat work too. Point is, we've got options.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I don't think cities like Prince George are banning natural gas.

*yet. the CleanBC plan notes banning it by 2030 province wide.

Originally Posted by chowhou

(even the Olympic Village NEU uses natural gas boilers when they need additional output). According to their fact sheet the heat pump system for Olympic Village still only covers 70% of the heating - natural gas makes up the rest.

thats an outdated factsheet. theyre using more NG since they opened their 2nd energy plant to supplement the system. they also include renewable natural gas as being green in their report. they have no legal requirement to hit 70%, thats just what they hope to hit.

also, as a note, the NEU is more expensive for owners than NG, or electric.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

there is a recent one installed in Norway (which should be pretty similar to here, right?)

that one working from the ocean, not the air. not realistic for individuals. geothermal is expensive to install, maintain, and keep working properly. i looked into using one, and decided against it.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

IIRC it doesn't have to be natural gas either - biomass and sewer heat work too. Point is, we've got options.

And how expensive are they? We’ll beggar ourselves while China plans 100 new coal fired power plants. But hey, we’ll have virtue-signalling bragging rights.

https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...es-2023-03-22/

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by whatnext

And how expensive are they? We’ll beggar ourselves while China plans 100 new coal fired power plants. But hey, we’ll have virtue-signalling bragging rights.

https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...es-2023-03-22/

China or no China, more efficient heating systems give BC residents more money, not less.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

China or no China, more efficient heating systems give BC residents more money, not less.

Ask anybody paying for electric heat how it compares cost-wise to natural gas.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Ask anybody paying for electric heat how it compares cost-wise to natural gas.

I'll see your anecdotes and raise you a literal BC Hydro report.

For the average household in B.C., it is less expensive to heat with an electric heat pump than a natural gas furnace. A natural gas furnace costs around $731/year to operate, compared to $642/year to an electric heat pump.

District heating (the subject in question, which doesn't necessarily need to run on LNG either) makes the process even more efficient.

[BaddieB]

Originally Posted by whatnext

In this Vancouver suburb, innovative technology is harnessing heat from wastewater and using it as a renewable energy source to heat homes...the residents of False Creek...

Calling False Creek a suburb is simply uneducated

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by whatnext

And how expensive are they? We’ll beggar ourselves while China plans 100 new coal fired power plants. But hey, we’ll have virtue-signalling bragging rights.

https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...es-2023-03-22/

China may be burning more coal than ever, but it's also building nuclear, solar, wind, and hydro at a faster pace than any other country in the world. So obviously big, bad China also values investing in alternatives to fossil fuels.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

And how expensive are they? We’ll beggar ourselves while China plans 100 new coal fired power plants. But hey, we’ll have virtue-signalling bragging rights.

https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...es-2023-03-22/

Did you even read that article? It says that if China actually builds the 100 coal power stations that are planned, they could end up as 'stranded assets' because renewables generate power more cheaply. And those hundred power stations would generate 106 gigawatts of coal-fired power, while just in the last year the installed capacity of renewable energy exceeded 1.45 billion kilowatts accounting for more than 50 percent of the country's total installed power generation capacity.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Did you even read that article? It says that if China actually builds the 100 coal power stations that are planned, they could end up as 'stranded assets' because renewables generate power more cheaply. And those hundred power stations would generate 106 gigawatts of coal-fired power, while just in the last year the installed capacity of renewable energy exceeded 1.45 billion kilowatts accounting for more than 50 percent of the country's total installed power generation capacity.

Yes, I did read it. They’re still building scores of coal fired power plants as is India. And yet some Canadians here are getting the vapours about far cleaner natural gas plants.

[Migrant_Coconut]

The entire premise behind expanding Canadian LNG is that we'd sell it to India, China and Europe as they transition off dirtier fuel. Clearly that's not the case.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Yes, I did read it. They’re still building scores of coal fired power plants as is India. And yet some Canadians here are getting the vapours about far cleaner natural gas plants.

Because natural gas is still a fossil fuel, and still emits CO2 when it's used, just like oil. While hydro, solar and wind (and tidal, and geothermal and nuclear) don't. So those should be where we invest, not building gas plants. And we should be adding battery banks to store the wind and solar power that is created when there's less demand. And adding more utilities like the SEFC energy utility that taps sewer heat. Creative Energy is ditching their gas boilers for electric - that single transition will replace a huge amount of CO2 generated every year (38,000 tonnes). So burning gas isn't 'clean'. We can control what we do - not what China does.

[jollyburger]

Inflation?

The estimated cost for the North Shore’s new Wastewater Treatment Plant has ballooned from around $700 million to $3.86 billion, after the regional district was forced to switch contractors.

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/0...nt-plant-cost/

[madog222]

^

“There were also a tremendous number of deficiencies that needed to be corrected and addressed — over 1,500 serious construction, concrete-related voids that needed to be repaired. That didn’t become apparent until we got our new contractor, PCL, was on site, and they started doing extensive work, and investigative work. And they’ve repaired over 1,500 concrete deficiencies,” Metro Vancouver Regional District Commissioner and CAO Jerry Dobrovolny said Friday.

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/0...nt-plant-cost/

[jollyburger]

I guess they'll try to recover some costs in the lawsuit but you wonder how they are able to build the Broadway Subway but the water treatment plant has 1500 concrete deficiencies.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

... but the water treatment plant has 1500 concrete deficiencies.

OUCH. So we should probably be worried about the subway?

[jollyburger]

They can just double the population of the North Shore to ease the tax burden